Codex Salamanders?

[DemonGSides]

17 minutes ago, jaxom said:

Just making sure I’m on the same page; rules for generic:

- Chapter Master

- Chief Librarian

- Master of the Forge

- Chief Apothecary

- Chapter Ancient

- Master of Sanctity

- Reclusiarch

 

Yeah exactly or a way to approximate them; my hazy memory of 9th was there were relics and stuff that could be used to shift a captain up to it and in older editions it was even just a bespoke datasheet. With the new decision to make it so that no model, no datasheet, this is one of the things the more corporate style of releases have forgotten, which is a bummer.  I'm not interested in a whole model that's just "Chapter master: the model" which means I probably won't see what I want any time soon, but I also don't think what Tacticus offered (which I like, don't get me wrong I wish there was more modularity back in the game I'm just a realist in that I doubt it's coming back any time soon) is even really ideal, nor a direction GW seems to want to take 40k.

 

So getting some way for someone who's got the Defibrillators custom chapter to be able to field their chapter master should be a priority for GW but I'm bummed it probably won't happen any time soon. 

Edited 22 hours ago by DemonGSides

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

45 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

 

Yeah exactly or a way to approximate them; my hazy memory of 9th was there were relics and stuff that could be used to shift a captain up to it and in older editions it was even just a bespoke datasheet. With the new decision to make it so that no model, no datasheet, this is one of the things the more corporate style of releases have forgotten, which is a bummer.  I'm not interested in a whole model that's just "Chapter master: the model" which means I probably won't see what I want any time soon, but I also don't think what Tacticus offered (which I like, don't get me wrong I wish there was more modularity back in the game I'm just a realist in that I doubt it's coming back any time soon) is even really ideal, nor a direction GW seems to want to take 40k.

 

So getting some way for someone who's got the Defibrillators custom chapter to be able to field their chapter master should be a priority for GW but I'm bummed it probably won't happen any time soon. 

I don’t think it was relics per se that upgraded models to the fancier versions, but it was just a blanket upgrade.

[SvenIronhand]

It was a upgrade that increased the pts cost.

[Tacitus]

1 hour ago, DemonGSides said:

 

Not 100% what this has to do with codex entries for making datasheets for unnamed chapter masters/various other leadership positions. 

 

Like sure all that's true, but I'm not really talking about plastic. I'm talking about the rules. 

Its a mental block creating a Catch-22 GW has created for itself.  They won't make rules unless they make models.  And they won't make models that take up wall space.  So make mix-n-match blisters that cover them all but don't take up more wall space.  The general kit can have the Apothecary backpack, arm, pistol, the Ancient sword and banner, etc.  Most blisters become generic Mix-n-Match and we get datasheets for everyone - Full generic Bike, Phobos, Terminator, Gravis etc Command plus the Specials for about the same wall space.

[Tacitus]

1 hour ago, DemonGSides said:

 

Yeah exactly or a way to approximate them; my hazy memory of 9th was there were relics and stuff that could be used to shift a captain up to it and in older editions it was even just a bespoke datasheet. With the new decision to make it so that no model, no datasheet, this is one of the things the more corporate style of releases have forgotten, which is a bummer.  I'm not interested in a whole model that's just "Chapter master: the model" which means I probably won't see what I want any time soon, but I also don't think what Tacticus offered (which I like, don't get me wrong I wish there was more modularity back in the game I'm just a realist in that I doubt it's coming back any time soon) is even really ideal, nor a direction GW seems to want to take 40k.

 

So getting some way for someone who's got the Defibrillators custom chapter to be able to field their chapter master should be a priority for GW but I'm bummed it probably won't happen any time soon. 

Well there's two different things we're talking about here:

 

There was a DIY Chapter Master etc where you took a captain, slapped 1CP and 20-40ish points at him and he could take a couple different relics for a super weapon etc.  But it was still an up jumped captain - and you had to have an X to upgrade.  You had to have an XYZ Armor/Job combo to start with.  If there's no Phobos Apothecary you couldn't make a Phobos armored Chief Apothecary as a Raven Guard for example.  

 

The other half of the question I'm seeing a lot is that we USED to have a lot of alternate armor characters - Bike Captains etc that just went away in this new edition.  Just as we finally got detachments that let us make these non-standard companies.  Some we never had.  Gravis and Phobos have never been filled out for example.  Phobos feels like it, but everything is locked down hard with just the one leader with Chutes and Grapnels.  Ironically its not a "Reiver Lieutenant". 

 

I'm a variety junkie.  The more different ways more people have to make Not-The-Same-Army the better off I think we are.

Edited 20 hours ago by Tacitus

[ZeroWolf]

I think we'll eventually get captain in bike, chaplain in phobos, Libarian in Gravis etc, just a matter of time. Best thing for GW to do is start selling bits separately again (or failing that, online only upgrade frames)

[HeadlessCross]

44 minutes ago, ZeroWolf said:

I think we'll eventually get captain in bike, chaplain in phobos, Libarian in Gravis etc, just a matter of time. Best thing for GW to do is start selling bits separately again (or failing that, online only upgrade frames)

We're not getting a Phobos Chaplain because that makes no sense. 

[Tacitus]

Just now, HeadlessCross said:

We're not getting a Phobos Chaplain because that makes no sense. 

Why doesn't it make sense?

[jaxom]

Hmm. I wish there was a way to slide in some Crusade content to casual games; because that's where a lot of these upgrades currently live.

[Dr. Clock]

5 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

We're not getting a Phobos Chaplain because that makes no sense. 

Might not make sense if one considers or contrasts a) Phobos units are the 'sneaky' ones, usually 10th 'Scout Company' squads and b) Chaplains are usually figured as 'firebrand orators' or 'judgmental fanatics'.

 

However, 10th Co. definitely should have a Chaplain according to the Codex Astartes, and if anything that role would be just as if not more important than chaplaincy of other Companies due to the relative inexperience of 10th Co. (at least in oldmarine terms). I do like the apparent change to 10th Co. that says it's up to 10 squads of dedicated 'Vanguard/Phobos' power armour squads in addition to the 'Scouts'. I'd imagine the Phobos squads will usually be a balance of the cocksure replacements just leaving Scout squads, and a core of veteran stealth/shock specialists.

 

Also consider: Reivers. They do the 'terrifying skull guy' vibe pretty well in my opinion, which could be even better with a dedicated Chaplain option... It would have been a cinch to make the 'Reiver Lt.' into the 'Phobos Chaplain' if GW had had the confidence to actually make Reivers... good at damage before now.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[ZeroWolf]

29 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

We're not getting a Phobos Chaplain because that makes no sense. 

To be fair it was an example, and I just wanted to get examples of different armour marks in there. Plus if a GW designer made it, the rules team would have to figure out a way for things to make sense, at least based on the way things were presumed to work at GW.

[Medjugorje]

On 1/17/2025 at 1:33 PM, Indy Techwisp said:

As @mecanojavi99 has stated, that Salamanders picture is most likely standing in for the Codex Compliant Chapters book.

A.k.a the rumored Space Marine Codex 2.

not even a book but models. Just models

[Indy Techwisp]

6 minutes ago, Medjugorje said:

not even a book but models. Just models

 

Yeah, Valrak has reported that the Whispers from the Warp are saying just models now.

 

Still, he's also saying there's a Campaign Book, so maybe that's what the Salamander is representing.

[DemonGSides]

Probably the oft rumored Armageddon return.  Doesn't have to be a return to Armageddon for a whole edition, could just be a campaign book like Vigilus.

[Indy Techwisp]

2 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

Probably the oft rumored Armageddon return.  Doesn't have to be a return to Armageddon for a whole edition, could just be a campaign book like Vigilus.

 

We're due a new Mission Deck soon too, so maybe that'll also tie into it.

[DemonGSides]

Hopefully they'll make more than 4 boxes of the cards so people can find them more reliably.

[HeadlessCross]

1 hour ago, Dr. Clock said:

Might not make sense if one considers or contrasts a) Phobos units are the 'sneaky' ones, usually 10th 'Scout Company' squads and b) Chaplains are usually figured as 'firebrand orators' or 'judgmental fanatics'.

 

However, 10th Co. definitely should have a Chaplain according to the Codex Astartes, and if anything that role would be just as if not more important than chaplaincy of other Companies due to the relative inexperience of 10th Co. (at least in oldmarine terms). I do like the apparent change to 10th Co. that says it's up to 10 squads of dedicated 'Vanguard/Phobos' power armour squads in addition to the 'Scouts'. I'd imagine the Phobos squads will usually be a balance of the cocksure replacements just leaving Scout squads, and a core of veteran stealth/shock specialists.

 

Also consider: Reivers. They do the 'terrifying skull guy' vibe pretty well in my opinion, which could be even better with a dedicated Chaplain option... It would have been a cinch to make the 'Reiver Lt.' into the 'Phobos Chaplain' if GW had had the confidence to actually make Reivers... good at damage before now.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

The Chaplain existing doesn't mean it's going to have Phobos armor. 

 

All this really means is that GW should've stuck with how characters worked in 8th/9th instead of caving to the neckbeards that wanted the old Character rules back. 

[jaxom]

18 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

All this really means is that GW should've stuck with how characters worked in 8th/9th instead of caving to the neckbeards that wanted the old Character rules back. 

If I recall correctly, the Design Team stated it was because Auras made character's points efficieny too variable compared to the boost it gave. The example they gave was a Space Marine Captain next a few basic units versus a lot of basic units versus a lot of elite units. They experimented with adding specific keywords to auras (instead of just Core) and it didn't really fix the problem. I don't think their change was the most elegant; but I'm also pretty sure it wasn't a response to nostalgia.

[DemonGSides]

I like embedded characters but I'm also of the opinion we don't need a Chaplain in EVERY armor. Lt and Cap, sure. And honestly I don't really see apothecary in Phobos making much sense either. I think Librarians are pushing it but do make some sense.

 

Idk just my feelings on it. Same reason I think a gravis chaplain barely makes sense. Gravis apothecary would make sense tho as well to me, even if it was more traditional than the Biologis. 

[Tacitus]

3 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

I like embedded characters but I'm also of the opinion we don't need a Chaplain in EVERY armor. Lt and Cap, sure. And honestly I don't really see apothecary in Phobos making much sense either. I think Librarians are pushing it but do make some sense.

 

Idk just my feelings on it. Same reason I think a gravis chaplain barely makes sense. Gravis apothecary would make sense tho as well to me, even if it was more traditional than the Biologis. 

Company Command is Cap, Chap, and 2 Lieutenants - so yeah I think we need a Chaplain in Phobos.  I think the Judiciar should be a "lieutenant" just from the Chaplain side and should have the same "can join even if..." and that even if should be Cap, Chap, and Chapter Master but meh.

[ZeroWolf]

Do love my Judicar, shame that he's still sprue locked. A multipart version of him with some optional extras wouldn't go amiss.

[ThaneOfTas]

As much as I adore the Judicar in both design and concept, I really just cannot see him sticking around long term, he feels like a prime example of gratuitous range bloat and when his bundled sprue goes out of production I can see his datasheet going with him.

[HeadlessCross]

3 hours ago, jaxom said:

If I recall correctly, the Design Team stated it was because Auras made character's points efficieny too variable compared to the boost it gave. The example they gave was a Space Marine Captain next a few basic units versus a lot of basic units versus a lot of elite units. They experimented with adding specific keywords to auras (instead of just Core) and it didn't really fix the problem. I don't think their change was the most elegant; but I'm also pretty sure it wasn't a response to nostalgia.

And now those characters are just getting attached to squads with arbitrary rules for how it works!

 

People are going to try and buff the most elite units no matter what. The difference is that, with auras, commanders are actually commanding an army (albeit in a restricted aura). The whole "I don't understand you because you're in a different squad" was always bad writing. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

6 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

We're not getting a Phobos Chaplain because that makes no sense. 

Since when does 40K make sense?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

4 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

The Chaplain existing doesn't mean it's going to have Phobos armor. 

 

All this really means is that GW should've stuck with how characters worked in 8th/9th instead of caving to the neckbeards that wanted the old Character rules back. 

Characters in units makes so much more sense than them just wandering around the battlefield on their own, especially with units like command squads/honor guard units.