Codex Salamanders?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

47 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

And now those characters are just getting attached to squads with arbitrary rules for how it works!

 

People are going to try and buff the most elite units no matter what. The difference is that, with auras, commanders are actually commanding an army (albeit in a restricted aura). The whole "I don't understand you because you're in a different squad" was always bad writing. 

It’s nothing about ‘I don’t understand you’ that’s just an intentionally obtuse view of things.

 

it makes 0 sense for a captain in gravis armor to be leading a phobos unit.

Doesn’t really make sense for a tacticus armored captain to lead a gravis unit.

[HeadlessCross]

1 hour ago, ThaneOfTas said:

As much as I adore the Judicar in both design and concept, I really just cannot see him sticking around long term, he feels like a prime example of gratuitous range bloat and when his bundled sprue goes out of production I can see his datasheet going with him.

I mean, what is he but another Champion style model to buff units? There's technically no entry for that now when the other one is locked to Company Heroes. 

4 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

It’s nothing about ‘I don’t understand you’ that’s just an intentionally obtuse view of things.

 

it makes 0 sense for a captain in gravis armor to be leading a phobos unit.

Doesn’t really make sense for a tacticus armored captain to lead a gravis unit.

Okay, but why? Are you saying Marine operations never overlap?

[DemonGSides]

Plus Space Marine 2 literally has a Phobos Captain ordering around all manner of space Marines.

 

But I just think "Phobos Chaplain" is silly, as would be gravis chaplain.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

9 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

I mean, what is he but another Champion style model to buff units? There's technically no entry for that now when the other one is locked to Company Heroes. 

Okay, but why? Are you saying Marine operations never overlap?

It makes no sense for a squad meant for stealth and mobility being led by someone in the least stealthy and least mobile armor type.

 

it makes no sense for a leader to wear subpar protection while leading a unit designed to have extra protection to do very dangerous frontline roles.

 

It would be like a captain in an abrams tank leading a unit of SEALs.

 

or a col. in a humvee leading a squadron of abrams.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

57 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

Plus Space Marine 2 literally has a Phobos Captain ordering around all manner of space Marines.

 

But I just think "Phobos Chaplain" is silly, as would be gravis chaplain.

Difference from giving orders, and directly leading.

 

a snipe CPO in the navy can give orders to topsiders, but it wouldn’t make sense for a nuke chief to be actively leading gunner’s mates in a reloading operation.

 

just like a SEAL CPO can order nukes around but would make no sense to be leading an evolution involving a nuclear power plant.

[Special Officer Doofy]

I think space marine players are impossible to please. Ex: Dark angels players telling salamander players they are not special enough to warrant their own book but somehow they are. It's not like in rogue trader everyone was glamoring for dark angels, blood angels and spacewolves. In second edition GW told everyone that the angels and wolves are special and made their own books for them. In the case of what came first, the chicken (demand for dark angels, blood angels and spacewolves) or the egg (GW just printing different books with extra characters and kits and telling you they're special so buy it), the egg definitely came first. They could have easily made 3 of the other Legions get their own books and killed off 90% of the angels and wolves in the drop site massacre and instead we would have dark angels player wanting their own supplement and salamander players telling them they are not special enough.

 

The demand for space marines were always going to be slightly higher than the other factions because 40k is basically knights in space, and space marines are the knights. But GW has ALWAYS supported space marines more, with more models, rules, kits, supplements, upgrade sprues, sub faction support, novels, merchandise, everything. They inflated the demand very early in the hobby and it spiraled out of control. You guys are in every starter box and often get multiple releases every edition, but it's never enough. Now you guys need chaplains in 4-5 different armor types? Reminds me of the kid that is at another kids birthday party that cries and gets his own presents. This thread has been a wild read. You know who doesn't even have a drop pod, regardless if it fits dreadnaughts, is about to be replaced with another one or looks like older or newer marine technology? Chaos space marines.

[HeadlessCross]

2 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

It makes no sense for a squad meant for stealth and mobility being led by someone in the least stealthy and least mobile armor type.

 

it makes no sense for a leader to wear subpar protection while leading a unit designed to have extra protection to do very dangerous frontline roles.

 

It would be like a captain in an abrams tank leading a unit of SEALs.

 

or a col. in a humvee leading a squadron of abrams.

So you're saying Incursors are incapable of being shouted to inspiration by a Chaplain? 

[HeadlessCross]

35 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

You know who doesn't even have a drop pod, regardless if it fits dreadnaughts, is about to be replaced with another one or looks like older or newer marine technology? Chaos space marines.

They did, but GW decided that complaints about FW not focusing on xenos meant they were supposed to stop all FW support for the other armies. 

[Tacitus]

50 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

I think space marine players are impossible to please. Ex: Dark angels players telling salamander players they are not special enough to warrant their own book but somehow they are. It's not like in rogue trader everyone was glamoring for dark angels, blood angels and spacewolves. In second edition GW told everyone that the angels and wolves are special and made their own books for them. In the case of what came first, the chicken (demand for dark angels, blood angels and spacewolves) or the egg (GW just printing different books with extra characters and kits and telling you they're special so buy it), the egg definitely came first. They could have easily made 3 of the other Legions get their own books and killed off 90% of the angels and wolves in the drop site massacre and instead we would have dark angels player wanting their own supplement and salamander players telling them they are not special enough.

 

The demand for space marines were always going to be slightly higher than the other factions because 40k is basically knights in space, and space marines are the knights. But GW has ALWAYS supported space marines more, with more models, rules, kits, supplements, upgrade sprues, sub faction support, novels, merchandise, everything. They inflated the demand very early in the hobby and it spiraled out of control. You guys are in every starter box and often get multiple releases every edition, but it's never enough. Now you guys need chaplains in 4-5 different armor types? Reminds me of the kid that is at another kids birthday party that cries and gets his own presents. This thread has been a wild read. You know who doesn't even have a drop pod, regardless if it fits dreadnaughts, is about to be replaced with another one or looks like older or newer marine technology? Chaos space marines.

Who said they weren't special enough?  How many Salamander Only Datasheets are there?  How many Salamander only rules?  Nobody said they weren't special enough, they said they weren't fleshed out enough.  Two Special Characters, zero special units, zero special detachments, zero special rules.  The Salamander's Codex Supplement is one page long plus bonus fluff.  That's a reason to write a Black Library book not a codex supplement.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

13 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

I mean, what is he but another Champion style model to buff units? There's technically no entry for that now when the other one is locked to Company Heroes. 

Okay, but why? Are you saying Marine operations never overlap?

You’re just being intentionally obtuse now, you have to be trolling.

theres no way you are legitimately as thick as you’re pretending to be.

36 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

So you're saying Incursors are incapable of being shouted to inspiration by a Chaplain? 

That’s not remotely what I said. I said absolutely nothing about chaplains.

[jaxom]

In before thread gets locked. 
 

The last Salamanders supplement was excellent. If a new one comes out and had new detachments where Stratagems used to be, and some more up to date lore; I’d be pleased. 

[Tacitus]

4 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

Plus Space Marine 2 literally has a Phobos Captain ordering around all manner of space Marines.

 

But I just think "Phobos Chaplain" is silly, as would be gravis chaplain.

Well that's your right, but the people who do like Phobos Captains, and/or Gravis Chaplains etc should also be able to make armies they like, right? 

[HeadlessCross]

1 hour ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

You’re just being intentionally obtuse now, you have to be trolling.

theres no way you are legitimately as thick as you’re pretending to be.

That’s not remotely what I said. I said absolutely nothing about chaplains.

You can replace Chaplain with any other HQ. You're saying that a Librarian can't buff Incursors if he's not wearing the same armor. What's the logic behind that?

[DemonGSides]

1 hour ago, Tacitus said:

Well that's your right, but the people who do like Phobos Captains, and/or Gravis Chaplains etc should also be able to make armies they like, right? 

 

I mean paint your guys however you want?  I just don't think we A) have any lore support for chaplains in anything other than regular power armor and terminator plate, and b) the game doesn't need an entry for every unit to have every power armor type.  What's next, centurion chaplains?

 

Like if you wanna make something, straight up do it, its your hobby and your toys so go buck wild. I just don't think it makes much sense. But anything can happen, so go wild.  I'm not saying you shouldn't, just that I don't think it tracks with the written lore, for those that care to hew that way. Ultimately it's fine whatever any given hobbyist wants to do. I just don't think we need Chaplain (Phobos), Chaplain (Gravis), Chaplain (Omni) datasheets when the Chaplain is like one of the characters I think SHOULD stay as an aura, instead of being just a squad leader. But that's beyond the scope. 

[TheArtilleryman]

You know what? I always thought this guy was in Phobos armour:

 

 

But apparently not… 

[DemonGSides]

37 minutes ago, TheArtilleryman said:

You know what? I always thought this guy was in Phobos armour:

 

 

But apparently not… 

 

Nope just the first Primaris Chaplain. They released another one with... indomitus? That looked a lot more like the older Chaplain style.

 

Edited January 30 by DemonGSides

[TheArtilleryman]

1 minute ago, DemonGSides said:

 

Nope just the first Primaris Chaplain. They released another one with... indomitus? That looked a lot more like the older Chaplain style.

 

Yeah I remember that guy too. I think it’s because the chaplain I posted is really similar to the librarian in Phobos armour with the hood and robes:

 

[ZeroWolf]

29 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

 

Nope just the first Primaris Chaplain. They released another one with... indomitus? That looked a lot more like the older Chaplain style.

 

FYI, this is my favourite of the Primaris chaplains. Though the bike Chaplain is 2nd

[Tacitus]

1 hour ago, DemonGSides said:

 

I mean paint your guys however you want?  I just don't think we A) have any lore support for chaplains in anything other than regular power armor and terminator plate, and b) the game doesn't need an entry for every unit to have every power armor type.  What's next, centurion chaplains?

 

Like if you wanna make something, straight up do it, its your hobby and your toys so go buck wild. I just don't think it makes much sense. But anything can happen, so go wild.  I'm not saying you shouldn't, just that I don't think it tracks with the written lore, for those that care to hew that way. Ultimately it's fine whatever any given hobbyist wants to do. I just don't think we need Chaplain (Phobos), Chaplain (Gravis), Chaplain (Omni) datasheets when the Chaplain is like one of the characters I think SHOULD stay as an aura, instead of being just a squad leader. But that's beyond the scope. 

And again I ask, according to which lore source/point does not-every-company have a Chaplain in the Company Command?

 

Which precept of the Codex Astartes says Even if Thou Shalt Special Issue Gravis Armor and Boltstorm Gauntlets thou Shalt Not Issue Gravis Armor to Thy Chaplain? 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

3 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

You can replace Chaplain with any other HQ. You're saying that a Librarian can't buff Incursors if he's not wearing the same armor. What's the logic behind that?

I’m saying nothing about chaplains.

 

Because it’s absolutely stupid to send people on sneaky beaky missions if they’re not in the sneaky armor giving away the position of the sneaky beaky bois. 
it’s stupid to send a leader into a mission that requires top level protection with a lesser level of protection.

 

im not sure how else to explain common sense to you.

 

sure a phobos captain can give orders to tacticus or gravis via radio, but that’s a mechanic that barely exists in the guard, so good luck getting it into a marine codex.

[jaxom]

Let the arguing move to a more appropriate venue:

 

 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, Tacitus said:

And again I ask, according to which lore source/point does not-every-company have a Chaplain in the Company Command?

 

Which precept of the Codex Astartes says Even if Thou Shalt Special Issue Gravis Armor and Boltstorm Gauntlets thou Shalt Not Issue Gravis Armor to Thy Chaplain? 

I’m sure a gravis chaplain is coming fairly soon.

[DemonGSides]

3 hours ago, Tacitus said:

And again I ask, according to which lore source/point does not-every-company have a Chaplain in the Company Command?

 

Which precept of the Codex Astartes says Even if Thou Shalt Special Issue Gravis Armor and Boltstorm Gauntlets thou Shalt Not Issue Gravis Armor to Thy Chaplain? 

 

I don't think the chaplain has to change armor if he was with a company command, but I also don't think you send "Company Command" on a sneaky mission like phobos would want, so I'm saying it just doesn't make a lot of sense.  I don't have a page number for you, because I'm not making a proscription, just giving an opinion.  I also never said Chaplains weren't part of a company command, but I did give a situation where a Captain of a Company wore different armor than his chaplain (Space Marine 2).

You could chill a little.  It's just toys.  I just said a datasheet feels superfluous and would contribute to the oft complained about bloat of the Space Marine range.

Edited January 31 by DemonGSides

[Medjugorje]

On 1/30/2025 at 12:23 AM, HeadlessCross said:

The Chaplain existing doesn't mean it's going to have Phobos armor. 

 

All this really means is that GW should've stuck with how characters worked in 8th/9th instead of caving to the neckbeards that wanted the old Character rules back. 

I hated this change.... Characters attached to units is like 40k used to be in older editions and is how they should be... PLEASE NEVER MAKE CHARACTER MECHANIC DUMB like in 8th or 9th.... Auras are too stupid strong.... 

[Indy Techwisp]

56 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

I also never said Chaplains weren't part of a company command, but I did give a situation where a Captain of a Company wore different armor than his chaplain (Space Marine 2).

 

I assume someone's mentioned that said Phobos Captain isn't actually taking to the field at all, rather the actual on-the-ground action is lead by a Tacticus Lt. to match his Tacticus Squad?

 

Regarding a Phobos Chaplain, I don't see a reason why there wouldn't be one.
Makes about as much sense as the Phobos Libby shouting spells in Phobos or the Phobos Captain shouting orders in Phobos.
Honestly, there's a Phobos unit that really fits with a Skull Faced Transhuman Monster absolutely screaming litanies at everyone.
Reivers.