Codex Salamanders?

[lansalt]

Cato Sicarius is no longer the UM 2nd company captain in the lore, just the leader of the Victrix Guards protecting Guilliman. I'm afraid he's pretty much one codex away of joining Chronus, Cassius, and Telion.

[Gorechilde]

(Dons a tinfoil hat)

 

Let me throw a radical hypothesis out into the void. There are four big marine codexes for loyalists, and four for traitors. All four traitor primarchs are back and living large. On the loyalist side we have two returned and one possibly on the way, but that's it because the Angel is very dead. But wait, Vulkan is a perpetual who vanished killing the beast on Armageddon. He's a very viable option to return. So what if the Salamanders are slated to get more attention because they plan to eventually even the Primarch field using Vulkan?

 

(Removes tinfoil hat)

 

Meh... that would be at least three years away....

[Borbarad]

1 hour ago, Gorechilde said:

(Dons a tinfoil hat)

 

Let me throw a radical hypothesis out into the void. There are four big marine codexes for loyalists, and four for traitors. All four traitor primarchs are back and living large. On the loyalist side we have two returned and one possibly on the way, but that's it because the Angel is very dead. But wait, Vulkan is a perpetual who vanished killing the beast on Armageddon. He's a very viable option to return. So what if the Salamanders are slated to get more attention because they plan to eventually even the Primarch field using Vulkan?

 

(Removes tinfoil hat)

 

Meh... that would be at least three years away....

Let me double down on that with TWO tinfoil hats: There are 4 traitor primarchs, so we are 2 loyalists short. Next to Vulkan, we will see Rogal Dorn return to lead the Black Templars in their new codex! 

[Dark Shepherd]

I hope  if theres a Named Chapters supplement book it heralds Named Chapters being only able to use their bespoke detachments not core marine codex detachments (and yes that should apply to codex supplements too IMO)

 

And they get good bespoke detachments

Edited January 18 by Dark Shepherd

[Karhedron]

I have to disagree there. Officially breaking the link between paint schemes and rules is one of the best things about 10th edition. Space Marines are elite warriors with decades or even centuries of experience. Pidgeonholing them into a single fighting style doesn't seem right. 

 

Sure Ragnar Blackmane may favour Drop Pod assaults but he has the skill and experience to know that sometimes a stealthy "Vanguard Spearhead" approach is called for.

 

Blood Angels are know for their assault squads and melee ferocity. But they also have a noted tendency to field lots of flamers and overcharge their transport engines so a Firestorm detachment is also fluffy for them.

[LameBeard]

24 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

I have to disagree there. Officially breaking the link between paint schemes and rules is one of the best things about 10th edition. Space Marines are elite warriors with decades or even centuries of experience. Pidgeonholing them into a single fighting style doesn't seem right. 

 

Sure Ragnar Blackmane may favour Drop Pod assaults but he has the skill and experience to know that sometimes a stealthy "Vanguard Spearhead" approach is called for.

 

Blood Angels are know for their assault squads and melee ferocity. But they also have a noted tendency to field lots of flamers and overcharge their transport engines so a Firestorm detachment is also fluffy for them.

I’m putting this in a box marked “opinions I am not yet ready to adopt, despite my reasons for not adopting them looking rather weak.”

[Dark Shepherd]

21 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

I have to disagree there. Officially breaking the link between paint schemes and rules is one of the best things about 10th edition. Space Marines are elite warriors with decades or even centuries of experience. Pidgeonholing them into a single fighting style doesn't seem right. 

 

Sure Ragnar Blackmane may favour Drop Pod assaults but he has the skill and experience to know that sometimes a stealthy "Vanguard Spearhead" approach is called for.

 

Blood Angels are know for their assault squads and melee ferocity. But they also have a noted tendency to field lots of flamers and overcharge their transport engines so a Firestorm detachment is also fluffy for them.

My view is theres nothing stopping eg Salamanders having 4 or 5 detachments in this new book. But mainly its unfair and or causes balance issues when DA/BA/SW especially get to inject their bespoke units into core codex detachments (sometimes its OP). Sam

 

But also, and I know marines are a cash cow,  but it has to be annoying that some armies get 3 or 4 detachments but named marine chapter armies get 7 or 8

 

As a divergent chapter player I like the fluffiness too of Wolves having their seperate detachments.

[Sete]

I'm quite curious about GK. I wonder what's the plan with them.

[roryokane]

16 hours ago, lansalt said:

Cato Sicarius is no longer the UM 2nd company captain in the lore, just the leader of the Victrix Guards protecting Guilliman. I'm afraid he's pretty much one codex away of joining Chronus, Cassius, and Telion.

He was literally just featured in a novella featuring the Ultramarines protagonist of the Dawn of Fire series, Ferren Areios. It’s a LOVELY little bit of writing. He’s definitely not out of the setting.

2 hours ago, LameBeard said:

I’m putting this in a box marked “opinions I am not yet ready to adopt, despite my reasons for not adopting them looking rather weak.”

That’s what legions were for - oh yeah, there IS a stealthy chapter of the Iron Hands legion…

[jimbo1701]

I think it’s a good thing colour schemes are now no longer limiting your detachment choices and also that the change to Oom now gives less divergent chapters a slight advantage. 
I do feel, however, that there should be some unit and detachment limitations for divergent chapters so they don’t get the best of all worlds.
take black templars for example, who already have a restriction with librarian units. Limit their access to scouts also and to any detachments such as vanguard and gladius that don’t fit with their fluff. 

Edited January 18 by jimbo1701
Spelling

[Tokugawa]

1 hour ago, Sete said:

I'm quite curious about GK. I wonder what's the plan with them.

2 or 3 kits are enough to bring most GK units to updated modern scale. Characters could wait for future smaller updates. To GW it's really not a difficult work. 

[Mogger351]

1 hour ago, Tokugawa said:

2 or 3 kits are enough to bring most GK units to updated modern scale. Characters could wait for future smaller updates. To GW it's really not a difficult work. 

I hope they intend more for them than that though, I'd like to see them get a bespoke dead kit and maybe a vehicle.

[Robbienw]

They should get a Jetbike unit.  It would be so cool.

[HeadlessCross]

5 hours ago, Dark Shepherd said:

My view is theres nothing stopping eg Salamanders having 4 or 5 detachments in this new book. But mainly its unfair and or causes balance issues when DA/BA/SW especially get to inject their bespoke units into core codex detachments (sometimes its OP). Sam

 

But also, and I know marines are a cash cow,  but it has to be annoying that some armies get 3 or 4 detachments but named marine chapter armies get 7 or 8

 

As a divergent chapter player I like the fluffiness too of Wolves having their seperate detachments.

It only causes balance issues when the Divergent units are too good. Nobody complained about ICC until they got buffed, for example. And Wolves have like 2 good Divergent units. 

 

It also raises the question of what actually NEEDS bespoke rules. I'm all for bespoke models for all armies. I'm NOT all for if it gets a model it automatically gets different rules. 

2 hours ago, jimbo1701 said:

I think it’s a good thing colour schemes are now no longer limiting your detachment choices and also that the change to Oom now gives less divergent chapters a slight advantage. 
I do feel, however, that there should be some unit and detachment limitations for divergent chapters so they don’t get the best of all worlds.
take black templars for example, who already have a restriction with librarian units. Limit their access to scouts also and to any detachments such as vanguard and gladiators that don’t fit with their fluff. 

Okay, but artifical restrictions don't work when someone doesn't want to take a unit. 

 

Let's say there was a detachment with amazing rules, but it stated the caveat you weren't allowed to take Ancients. If you don't like taking them anyway, what's the actual disadvantages for the player?

 

That's why I think Black Templars players should just get Librarians anyway. 

Edited January 18 by HeadlessCross

[Evil Eye]

2 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

That's why I think Black Templars players should just get Librarians anyway. 

The Black Templars explicitly don't have Librarians though, their whole thing is being one of the very few Astartes chapters to rigorously follow the Imperial Creed and have an intense distrust of psykers. It'd be like giving the World Eaters access to Sorcerers.

 

Anyway. A big 7E Traitor Legions style mega-supplement for Marines would be cool; give some special rules for the chapters (and their successors) important/unique enough to deserve them but not divergent enough to merit their own 'dex, and add rules for fielding your own homebrew chapter.

 

...Of course if the rumours are to be believed, just like Traitor Legions it'll give some much-needed flavour to the game, and then be abruptly ripped away as a new edition wipes the slate clean scant months later.

[Sete]

3 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

That's why I think Black Templars players should just get Librarians anyway. 

[TheArtilleryman]

6 hours ago, Robbienw said:

They should get a Jetbike unit.  It would be so cool.

I’d be happy if they just did a legends datasheet for the Sky Hunter squadron. Don’t understand why there isn’t one.

[One Paul Murray]

Personally I think that divergent chapters would be better if they didn't have some of the basic units that are in the Codex. I mean, Dark Angels are supposed to have a fully Terminator armored first company, so from a fluff perspective why would they have Sternguard or Vanguard vets? Appreciate that may not be as stark with Blood Angels I don't know that the SG would be so overwhelming in numbers, but wouldn't they take the place of Bladeguard? Why would the Space Wolves have all those units in real life? There'd only be about thirty marines in each.

Edited January 18 by One Paul Murray

[Indy Techwisp]

11 minutes ago, One Paul Murray said:

Personally I think that divergent chapters would be better if they didn't have some of the basic units that are in the Codex. I mean, Dark Angels are supposed to have a fully Terminator armored first company, so from a fluff perspective why would they have Sternguard or Vanguard vets? Appreciate that may not be as stark with Blood Angels I don't know that the SG would be so overwhelming in numbers, but wouldn't they take the place of Bladeguard? Why would the Space Wolves have all those units in real life? There'd only be about thirty marines in each.

 

Divergent Marines being able to or not being able to take Base LSM units isn't exactly on topic for a thread about the Codex-locked Chapters finally getting some attention.

[TheArtilleryman]

48 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

Divergent Marines being able to or not being able to take Base LSM units isn't exactly on topic for a thread about the Codex-locked Chapters finally getting some attention.

Could flip it the other way though. Making certain units unavailable to non-codex chapters might make codex chapters a more attractive option.

[Indy Techwisp]

2 minutes ago, TheArtilleryman said:

Could flip it the other way though. Making certain units unavailable to non-codex chapters might make codex chapters a more attractive option.

 

It could, but nearly every thread on these forums about Codex Chapters getting attention gets turned around to some variant of "Nerf Divergent Chapters" and it'd be nice if this one at least wasn't.

[Emperor Ming]

black templars dont turn down astropaths or navigators thou

 

but Liberians too far....

[HeadlessCross]

5 hours ago, Sete said:

You don't have to take them, but it doesn't mean it shouldn't be an option to begin with when other crusading Chapters might make use of them, yes or no?

[darkhorse0607]

36 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

You don't have to take them, but it doesn't mean it shouldn't be an option to begin with when other crusading Chapters might make use of them, yes or no?

 

Isn't the whole point of giving chapter specific rules to make the faction play like it would in the lore?

 

Novamarines for example could be said to be crusading because theyre always sending out the majority of the chapter all over the place, but use librarians

 

Black Templars as as chapter have been anti-librarian since their founding though though, it's baked into their lore and is constantly mentioned. Unless GW is going to roll that back

[SvenIronhand]

BT don't hate librarians; they just haven't had any since the Cacodominus.