Codex Salamanders?

[skylerboodie]

15 hours ago, ZeroWolf said:

I wonder if GW will make new astartes themed battleforces when these surface. In fact wasn't it a similar time in 9th editions cycle when they dropped the first set (which I believe were Imperial Fists, White Scars, Salamanders, Raven Guard and Iron Hands...Wait a minute...)

 

I can definitely see GW releasing each new marine character exclusively within a £100+ box per chapter of older models as a FOMO moneygrab; sadly.

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

3 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

Not high since I'm sure GW wants him to still join Infernus and Company Heroes, and keep in mind his buff doesnt require him to be in any particular squad. My guess is there would just be an addition to let him join Aggressors, but that's super low odds. 

This restriction of joining units reminds me of Primaris not being allowed in Rhinos. Straight from the loony toons of wargaming.

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

17 hours ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

OK, but what was 5th edition like?

 

Seriously, what was it like.

It's been 17 years since then.

5th edition in a nutshell:

 

- Leafblower.

- Double Lash Prince & Plague Marines.

- GK infantry shooting you without LOS & annoying Draigo.

- Ork Biker Nobs wounds shenanigans.

- Jaws of the World Wolf.

- Cosplaying Special Characters. You want a special character for your codex-compliant chapter? Here you have Shrike, Lysander, Khan, He´stan, Kantor and half a dozen UM special characters. Buy them all, paint them in your chapter colours, give them a new name and you are ready for some serious roflstomping. 

[Orange Knight]

5th edition was pretty fun to play, but it was worse in terms of balance than anything today.

 

Back then the internet wasn't what it is now, and the community wasn't posting data and discovering the best things immediately.

The Grey Knights codex was absolutely ridiculous. The invincinble leaf-blower Guard army was not fun to face. Also, the wound shennigans with characters in units was just plain silly.

 

What I do like about 5th edition was some of the codex art, and the general vibe.

 

 

I see a lot of complaints about army sizes and number of models. Why don't people take ownership of their games and fix this? Play a 1k game on a full 6x4ft table. Check the rules - they absolutely allow this. It's a completely different vibe, it becomes a lot more about planning movements and positioning for engagement, the armies last longer - it's super fun. 

If you can't convince people to give that a shot, then unfortunately GW is probably right and people just want to use bigger armies and more models...

[phandaal]

2 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

Why don't people take ownership of their games and fix this?

 

That is what we did in my area. Just started playing 40k games without using 10th edition rules. There were only a handful of us at first, but now we have about 80 people in a Discord server that we use to organize games and leagues.

 

It is not just crusty old grognard geezers (ptooey! ) either. I mean, yes we are there, but we actually have young folks and new gamers as well. 

 

The stores have all been cool with using their spaces for it, and people still buy new stuff and build new armies. We are just doing it disconnected from GW's current rules churn and sales strategies. It has been the most fun wargaming in years - highly recommend!

Edited Friday at 03:27 PM by phandaal

[DemonGSides]

I've been advocating that for the entire edition and I can remember quite a few threads where I was told it was impossible to organize anything other than most modern tournament ruleset, and that I was rude for even suggesting it.

Nice to see someone actually advocated for themselves and founded the community they wanted!  The rules don't disappear just because GW releases a new product!

Edited Friday at 02:40 PM by DemonGSides

[Scribe]

3 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

If you can't convince people to give that a shot, then unfortunately GW is probably right and people just want to use bigger armies and more models...

 

Very wrong conclusion here. Its that people want a stable, regionally accepted standard, and whatever is newest, and pushed by GW as 'correct' is that standard.

[TheArtilleryman]

5 minutes ago, Scribe said:

 

Very wrong conclusion here. Its that people want a stable, regionally accepted standard, and whatever is newest, and pushed by GW as 'correct' is that standard.

This here is the thing. Of course it is possible to play a different edition, but you can’t just go and pick up a game in a club or store that way because it requires getting a pair or group of players to agree to make the time investment to use a different ruleset. It’s also what is readily available in terms of books and support.
 

It’s also not immediately obvious which codexes go with which Rulebook, and it never says “6th edition” or whatever in the books either, so you have to dig on the internet to find out if you don’t already know. I’ve got several rule books and codexes from various editions on my shelf but I’m not exactly sure which is which…

 

Also, any new units that get released obviously don’t have rules in the old edition, which means not being able to use them easily.

 

Not dumping on the idea of playing different editions - in fact I’d love to do this. It’s just not as easy as it is sometimes made to sound.

[phandaal]

39 minutes ago, TheArtilleryman said:

It’s just not as easy as it is sometimes made to sound.

 

We had a slow start, honestly. At first there were only 6 of us. It was not until we had been going for a few months that people really started coming out of the woodwork to join, because we had been telling people at stores about it whenever they asked what we were playing. Then a couple of guys expressed interest in running some short leagues for the group and that helped even more. Realistically it is about 20 regulars now and the rest pop in and out as they choose. New people are still joining too which is great. I assume this is what the Limeys mean when they talk about their "clubs." 

 

So yeah, it is not like you just show up with your rulebook of choice and people appear out of the aether. For my area though, most of us who joined were not planning to play at all with the current rules, so it was either go with the slow start or nothing at all.

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

3 hours ago, phandaal said:

 

We had a slow start, honestly. At first there were only 6 of us. It was not until we had been going for a few months that people really started coming out of the woodwork to join, because we had been telling people at stores about it whenever they asked what we were playing. Then a couple of guys expressed interest in running some short leagues for the group and that helped even more. Realistically it is about 20 regulars now and the rest pop in and out as they choose. New people are still joining too which is great. I assume this is what the Limeys mean when they talk about their "clubs." 

 

So yeah, it is not like you just show up with your rulebook of choice and people appear out of the aether. For my area though, most of us who joined were not planning to play at all with the current rules, so it was either go with the slow start or nothing at all.

The person promoting the concept is the driving factor here. 18 years ago I introduced the crowd at a FLGS to the Blood Bowl Living Rulebook. It also helped that I had several teams and a profound knowledge of the game as my first games took place on the fabled Astrogranite pitch. After explaining the rules and a promo game the store started in two weeks a league which still exists today.

[Orange Knight]

You don't have to run older rules or even change anything.

 

Just play a 1k game on a 6x4ft board.

That is a legal table size for those points, the rules stipulate minimums only.

Will make the game quicker, more strategic, less killy, etc.

 

I'm reading the complaints many people express, and an easy decision like this addresses many of them without having to even change the rules.

 

 

[HeadlessCross]

10 hours ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

 

- Cosplaying Special Characters. You want a special character for your codex-compliant chapter? Here you have Shrike, Lysander, Khan, He´stan, Kantor and half a dozen UM special characters. Buy them all, paint them in your chapter colours, give them a new name and you are ready for some serious roflstomping. 

This was probably the best part of that 5th edition codex though, and frankly it should've been continued. 

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

3 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

This was probably the best part of that 5th edition codex though, and frankly it should've been continued. 

I still have Shrike from that era. He lounges unused in my cupboard. Now I feel inclined to turn him in an Iron Hands in 2025 and present the mini here on the forum. Get your pitchforks ready and nice suggestions for a proper name.

[HeadlessCross]

23 minutes ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

I still have Shrike from that era. He lounges unused in my cupboard. Now I feel inclined to turn him in an Iron Hands in 2025 and present the mini here on the forum. Get your pitchforks ready and nice suggestions for a proper name.

I'd honestly still just use him as Shrike. Don't think anyone is gonna get mad your model doesn't have the Tactical Fence the new one is on. 

[Indy Techwisp]

Ok, so anything new on the Codex Marines front?
I don't think Valrak's posted anything else yet about them, but Youtube's been messing around with my subscription notifications recently, so I may have missed it.

 

Either way, would it be ok to take the discussion on previous editions and setting up games using them to another thread?

I know I asked about 5th Ed a while back but I didn't expect the whole thread to become about it.
I think the previous discussion about Marine army sizes went to + AMICUS AEDES + at some point.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

He had a video today positing that the orks are going back to Armageddon again because that image from the LVO teasers had a Grey Knight, Black Templar, and Salamander...all chapters that have fought on Armageddon.

[ZeroWolf]

1 minute ago, Iron Father Ferrum said:

He had a video today positing that the orks are going back to Armageddon again because that image from the LVO teasers had a Grey Knight, Black Templar, and Salamander...all chapters that have fought on Armageddon.

And that they're the rumoured launch faction for 11th edition (rumoured itself to be launching a whole 6 months early, based on current schedule that GW are chucking codices out)

[Dark Shepherd]

1 minute ago, Iron Father Ferrum said:

He had a video today positing that the orks are going back to Armageddon again because that image from the LVO teasers had a Grey Knight, Black Templar, and Salamander...all chapters that have fought on Armageddon.

Yeah suggestion being the salamanders etc models coming out alongside an Armageddon campaign book. And 11th ed in late 2025. And Wolves this summer

 

Would partly explain big slowdown in releases last year

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

11 hours ago, Iron Father Ferrum said:

He had a video today positing that the orks are going back to Armageddon again because that image from the LVO teasers had a Grey Knight, Black Templar, and Salamander...all chapters that have fought on Armageddon.

If this turns out to be true then it is evidence for Gee-Dubbs creative bankruptcy. We had three wars for Armageddon already. The only thing worthwhile in that regard would be too go back in time to the earlier wars, release proper campaign maps in plastic hexagon tiles along with a campaign book. Just doing a 4th iteration just so that Primaris can fight for it would be atrocious.

[Mogger351]

31 minutes ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

If this turns out to be true then it is evidence for Gee-Dubbs creative bankruptcy. We had three wars for Armageddon already. The only thing worthwhile in that regard would be too go back in time to the earlier wars, release proper campaign maps in plastic hexagon tiles along with a campaign book. Just doing a 4th iteration just so that Primaris can fight for it would be atrocious.

Unless the orks win this time and they do something with Ullanor?

[ZeroWolf]

To be fair, they'd throw the World Eaters in there for a triple threat and the match up we really want: Ghazghkull vs Angron.

[crimsondave]

19 hours ago, phandaal said:

 

We had a slow start, honestly. At first there were only 6 of us. It was not until we had been going for a few months that people really started coming out of the woodwork to join, because we had been telling people at stores about it whenever they asked what we were playing. Then a couple of guys expressed interest in running some short leagues for the group and that helped even more. Realistically it is about 20 regulars now and the rest pop in and out as they choose. New people are still joining too which is great. I assume this is what the Limeys mean when they talk about their "clubs." 

 

So yeah, it is not like you just show up with your rulebook of choice and people appear out of the aether. For my area though, most of us who joined were not planning to play at all with the current rules, so it was either go with the slow start or nothing at all.

I probably missed it but what rules are you all using?

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

59 minutes ago, ZeroWolf said:

To be fair, they'd throw the World Eaters in there for a triple threat and the match up we really want: Ghazghkull vs Angron.

Angron was present in the first war and Ghazghkull in the other two wars. Maybe Gee-Dubbs should shake things up a bit and send Skeletor to that wretched world as he has a better track record of success than the former never-do-wells.

[Cenobite Terminator]

I would to see new sculpts for Chapter Masters… some are sorely needed.

[Lord Marshal]

3 hours ago, Mogger351 said:

Unless the orks win this time and they do something with Ullanor?

 

It'll probably just be a "the Orks almost won but the Imperium pushed them back at great cost. It is currently a stalemate. Terra is rushing reinforcements to Armageddon but they may not hold out that long (they will)" like most other major named conflicts.

 

 

Edited Saturday at 04:26 PM by Lord Marshal