New DA player looking for unit and detachment advice

[Powderfinger]

Heya

 

New-ish 40k and Dark Angels player here, I've been mostly focused on the hobby side since I started a year or so ago and have only played one combat patrol game so far.  I've now reached the point where I've got 1610 pts. worth of units painted and ready to go and and am looking to grow my roster to 2000+ points and choose a good "learning" detachment  - when I hit 2k I have plans to schedule some games with a friend that has multiple armies built(Tau/Custodes/Imperial Fists) but hasn't played since 5th or 6th edition, so hopefully we'll both be learning 10th edition gameplay together.

 

I'd love to hear what units that people think would properly round out my list for 2000(or more) pts. and what detachment is a good fit for my army and for learning the game(i.e. being easy to pick up and learn for a beginner is probably more important than if the detachment is particularly strong or meta).  I do probably prefer some sort of combined arms/versatile list and detachment rather than a skewed one so I can experience all kinds of  interactions(melee/shooting/vehicles) and figure out how everything works.

 

Anyway, my 1610 pts. so far:

 

Azrael

Chaplain

5 Intercessors

5 Deathwing Knights

10 Hellblasters

3 Inceptors

3 Eliminators

1 Redemptor Dread

1 Vindicator

1 Land Raider Redeemer

 

So considering what I have so far, what would be good choices for my next few purchases as I approach 2k and beyond?

 

(Based on other lists I've seen I'm guessing I might be set for shooting and can probably use more melee and/or skirmish units and possibly characters or perhaps another transport if I pick up more melee...)

 

More Deathwing Knights?

Inner Circle Companions?

Assault Intercessors or Jump Pack Assault Intercessors?

Scouts or Reivers or Incursors etc. to skirmish/screen/do actions?

Repulsor or Impulsor to cart around melee units?

Characters to join any of these units(Lion/Lt./Judiciar/techmarine/etc)?

Anything else not listed?

 

I know detachment choice probably will influence what works best, so I'd also appreciate any insight that experienced DA players can offer as far as picking a good detachment(either DA or compliant is fine) to learn the game with that fits my (growing) roster.

 

Any and all advice is appreciated. Thanks!

Edited January 18 by Powderfinger

[Tacitus]

I like Azrael and/or a plain Librarian with Inner Circle Champions. 

 

I like Gladiators - especially the Lancer this edition. 

 

I like a Phobos Librarian attached to Eliminators. 

 

I like Deathwing Knights with a Terminator Cap/Chap/Libby leading them. 

 

 

 

Detachments are sources of theme rules.  As such if you're doing a general list, I'd do the generalized detachment - Gladius  Once you've got enough more than 2,000 points that you're swapping units in and out for variety then you'll likely also have enough experience in what you want to run to build, paint, and theme out your own Det/Unit combos.

[Powderfinger]

On 1/18/2025 at 8:13 AM, Tacitus said:

I like Azrael and/or a plain Librarian with Inner Circle Champions. 

 

I like Gladiators - especially the Lancer this edition. 

 

I like a Phobos Librarian attached to Eliminators. 

 

I like Deathwing Knights with a Terminator Cap/Chap/Libby leading them. 

 

 

 

Detachments are sources of theme rules.  As such if you're doing a general list, I'd do the generalized detachment - Gladius  Once you've got enough more than 2,000 points that you're swapping units in and out for variety then you'll likely also have enough experience in what you want to run to build, paint, and theme out your own Det/Unit combos.

 

Thanks. I was hoping for some more feedback from other DA players but I do appreciate your input.

 

At this point I'm prioritizing more melee options - another unit of DW Knights and either ICC or Assault Intercessors w/leader to ride in my Land Raider.

 

Scouts or JPAI seem to be in most lists and can round out my roster if I need cheap mobile screening/action units.

 

Gladius does seem to be the logical detachment call if I'm going to run a versatile, learning list.

Edited January 25 by Powderfinger

[Tacitus]

A lot of people like Asmodai with Assault Intercesors. 

And truth be told more people like Azrael in Hellblasters, but sometimes I like to be contrarian.

DWK love a character leader - I tend to prefer Terminator Chaplains for extra defense, or Captains for extra charge, but Sustained Hits from the Terminator Librarian is also good.

I have a personal mental block when it comes to ICC and anything but a Libby or Azrael for the 4++  I can't see making that squad without an invuln.

[crimsondave]

On 1/18/2025 at 4:39 AM, Powderfinger said:

Heya

 

New-ish 40k and Dark Angels player here, I've been mostly focused on the hobby side since I started a year or so ago and have only played one combat patrol game so far.  I've now reached the point where I've got 1610 pts. worth of units painted and ready to go and and am looking to grow my roster to 2000+ points and choose a good "learning" detachment  - when I hit 2k I have plans to schedule some games with a friend that has multiple armies built(Tau/Custodes/Imperial Fists) but hasn't played since 5th or 6th edition, so hopefully we'll both be learning 10th edition gameplay together.

 

I'd love to hear what units that people think would properly round out my list for 2000(or more) pts. and what detachment is a good fit for my army and for learning the game(i.e. being easy to pick up and learn for a beginner is probably more important than if the detachment is particularly strong or meta).  I do probably prefer some sort of combined arms/versatile list and detachment rather than a skewed one so I can experience all kinds of  interactions(melee/shooting/vehicles) and figure out how everything works.

 

Anyway, my 1610 pts. so far:

 

Azrael

Chaplain

5 Intercessors

5 Deathwing Knights

10 Hellblasters

3 Inceptors

3 Eliminators

1 Redemptor Dread

1 Vindicator

1 Land Raider Redeemer

 

So considering what I have so far, what would be good choices for my next few purchases as I approach 2k and beyond?

 

(Based on other lists I've seen I'm guessing I might be set for shooting and can probably use more melee and/or skirmish units and possibly characters or perhaps another transport if I pick up more melee...)

 

More Deathwing Knights?

Inner Circle Companions?

Assault Intercessors or Jump Pack Assault Intercessors?

Scouts or Reivers or Incursors etc. to skirmish/screen/do actions?

Repulsor or Impulsor to cart around melee units?

Characters to join any of these units(Lion/Lt./Judiciar/techmarine/etc)?

Anything else not listed?

 

I know detachment choice probably will influence what works best, so I'd also appreciate any insight that experienced DA players can offer as far as picking a good detachment(either DA or compliant is fine) to learn the game with that fits my (growing) roster.

 

Any and all advice is appreciated. Thanks!

I think it depends on what your goals are.  It doesn’t sound like you’re wanting to be super competitive, at least not right away.

 

The quickest way (and maybe cheapest) I think, to get to 2000 would be to add Lion El’Jonson(315 points) and  a Terminator Chaplain (75 points.)  That would give you dead on the nose 2000 points.  From what I’ve read, both of those show up in competitive lists, so neither is horrible in game.  You don’t have a leader for your Deathwing Knights anyway and Lion would give you a nice center piece.

Edited January 26 by crimsondave
Typo

[Powderfinger]

On 1/26/2025 at 11:34 AM, crimsondave said:

I think it depends on what your goals are.  It doesn’t sound like you’re wanting to be super competitive, at least not right away.

 

The quickest way (and maybe cheapest) I think, to get to 2000 would be to add Lion El’Jonson(315 points) and  a Terminator Chaplain (75 points.)  That would give you dead on the nose 2000 points.  From what I’ve read, both of those show up in competitive lists, so neither is horrible in game.  You don’t have a leader for your Deathwing Knights anyway and Lion would give you a nice center piece.

 

Thanks. You are correct in that I'm not focused on being competitive initially, I have to learn how to actually play the game before I need to worry too much about that. That said I do enjoy competition while gaming and hope to become a good/competitive player at some point down the line.

 

The Lion is definitely in my long term plans past 2k points, but I think my first order of business is to get one or two more melee/combat units in my list. As it stands now my only melee unit is the 5 DWKs, and maybe the Redemptor Dread if you count that. I'm considering another unit of DWKs, ICCs, or Assault Intercessors that I can put in my Land Raider Redeemer with a leader(I already have a Chaplain ready to go that has no other obvious unit to pair with right now) to move up and fight on objectives.  FWIW I've heard some people say that DWKs are sturdy and potent enough on their own and don't really need a leader for their unit, but if you believe otherwise please let me know. I've also heard that the Judiciar is really good with ICCs for the "fights first" ability.

 

I am also  interested to know which of those possibilities works best with the transport capabilities of my Land Raider.

Edited January 27 by Powderfinger

[crimsondave]

Honestly, I‘m not one to give advice on rules.  In my experience you’re better off just buying models you like and will enjoy painting.  The rules change so much by the time you get them assembled and painted a new balance update could have changed everything.  Just my $.02.

[Tacitus]

37 minutes ago, Powderfinger said:

  FWIW I've heard some people say that DWKs are sturdy and potent enough on their own and don't really need a leader for their unit, but if you believe otherwise please let me know. I've also heard that the Judiciar is really good with ICCs for the "fights first" ability.

 

I am also  interested to know which of those possibilities works best with the transport capabilities of my Land Raider.

 

DWK certainly capable of going solo - but the thing about leaders is they're force multipliers.  So the better the force they're leading, the more than can multiply.  But its all a tradeoff.  Maybe you make your Battleline Intercessors instead of Heavy Intercessors to afford more leaders in more DWK.  Maybe you skip the leaders in DWK so you can upgrade to Heavy Intercessors.  Maybe you do neither to afford a Gladiator tank.  At some level most people are going to make a somewhat similar army.  It comes down to your individual tweaks.

 

Did you say which Land Raider?  Not that it really matters - the part that changes based on what you're asking about is the transport capacity.  Remember Terminators take up 2 spaces.  So the basic/Godhammer Land Raider has a transport of 12.  Or 6 Terminators.  Or four Centurions - which isn't a great idea because of points - or some mix and match there of - you could do 3 Cents, and some Tacticus/Phobos Lone Operative character etc.   Ahh you did, Redeemer:  14  5 Terminators with two Terminator Armored leaders- one of with has to be solo, or an Ancient.

 

I'm more inclined to put loads of power armor into a land raider, and find a way to Advance and charge with the beefy boys - but I'm often marching to the beat of a different drum.

 

Your chaplain is in a weird place - the new OOM rules duplicate his ability - so the best unit he can join would be something that is unlikely to be sent against an OOM target - which means not ICC to me.  I like a Libby or Azrael in with ICC at that point that unit gets a 4++ and a -1 to get hit.  The Judiciar also has a drawback in that he can't be added as a second leader like lieutenants, Ancients, Apothecaries, etc. but leading some Bladeguard isn't horrible.

[Powderfinger]

On 1/27/2025 at 5:33 PM, Tacitus said:

 

Your chaplain is in a weird place - the new OOM rules duplicate his ability - so the best unit he can join would be something that is unlikely to be sent against an OOM target - which means not ICC to me.  

 

I thought that the new OOM rules don't apply to non-compliant chapters like the Dark Angels - so therefore the chaplain and his +1 to wound is NOT duplicating anything in a DA unit using oath, he's actually giving his unit a useful bonus because DA don't get the +1 wound version of oath.

 

Am I misunderstanding that?

 

.

Edited January 29 by Powderfinger

[Tacitus]

9 hours ago, Powderfinger said:

 

I thought that the new OOM rules don't apply to non-compliant chapters like the Dark Angels - so therefore the chaplain and his +1 to wound is NOT duplicating anything in a DA unit using oath, he's actually giving his unit a useful bonus because DA don't get the +1 wound version of oath.

 

Am I misunderstanding that?

 

.

It depends on what else is in your army.  So technically we're both right, if youve got Azrael or DWK etc that have the Dark Angels Bonus Faction Keyword you use the level 1 OOM without the To Wound benefit.  If you're playing all "core book" units you get to use the new Level 2 OOM. 

[Powderfinger]

5 hours ago, Tacitus said:

It depends on what else is in your army.  So technically we're both right, if youve got Azrael or DWK etc that have the Dark Angels Bonus Faction Keyword you use the level 1 OOM without the To Wound benefit.  If you're playing all "core book" units you get to use the new Level 2 OOM. 

 

Ok yeah that's the way I thought it works. I definitely want to use actual DA units in my army, so I'll be dealing with the "lesser" OOM and chaplain should still be useful with the right units.

 

I'm just finishing painting my DWKs right now and would like to paint something different next - so at the moment I'm leaning towards getting 10 Assault Intercessors, pairing them with the chaplain, and putting them in the Land Raider Redeemer to contest midfield objectives.

 

After that I'll look at another unit of DWKs or maybe ICCs which will give me 3 different melee units to fight for objectives and take me past 2000 points.

 

.

Edited January 29 by Powderfinger

[Prot]

I'm glad you decided to give DA a try, but I'm going to be upfront in that there's a lot that needs fixing in my experiences.

 

So with that I will just start by saying that if you're just looking to have fun and be a 'mid table' kind of semi-competitive player, building lists based on fluff and having fun, then really you need to just go with your favourite units. Lots of bikes, lots of DW units, or both. There's an appropriate Detachment for all of those.

 

Beyond that, what follows is purely my own experience in a semi-to-very competitive environment. It's just me talking here, no stats, or youtube guru advice. So take it for what it's worth......

 

Generically speaking:

- Be careful of too many specialized units. It goes without saying but you add some fun characters, a few DW units, some bikes, and next think you know you're at 2K and can't do any actions. :) It's a common trap. 

 

- The characters are fun but after Azrael, the named characters fall off fast. (It's my belief GW is giving each army an amazing, well costed, HQ that symbolizes the codex. In our case this staple is Azrael.)  The Lion is something I've tried a lot and I think he's just a non-starter. The easiest way to improve any list with him is to take him out. I can always find a better way to spend those points, and he just doesn't help the army enough. Every time I play with Guilliman it kills me a bit inside at just how much better he is (and for the army.)

 

    - Generic characters: In my book here's my rule; if the character's cost is too high, then the force multiplier it brings much be amazing. Actually at any cost.  Example: Belial for example is costed okay, but his rules are not only an insult to the character, they're downright horrible. He adds nearly nothing to the unit. Upgrading to almost any generic Termie HQ is going to be a better choice. Or the case of a generic Jump Assault Captain is somewhere around the cost of 5 Jump assault marines! You're better off doubling the squad size.

 

- Detachments are another trap. They're really hard to make work correctly. I was all over the Grotmas detachment and it really let me down. I have played ICC probably 30 times.... maybe more, and it's almost good. Really close, but there's a reason it does so poorly in tournaments. The other DA ones are probably a bit worse. All are okay.

 

- So where's the success? In competitive play it's much harder now if you want to play DA units because you get Beta Oath. I've gone back and fourth between my DA and UM, and it is a small, but tremendous difference playing with Alpha Oath vs Beta Oath. Especially with Gman.

 

This means to take 'true DA', you have to take the best units you have access to, and apply them to vanilla marine detachments. Stormlance, Gladius, etc. 

 

 

 

That's the short version. There's plenty of advice out there on the generic units that do well... they're in most lists. Some units definitely shine with the appropriate detachments.

 

You really do have to figure out your playstyle though, and work with it. I like everything, and originally... over 20 years ago that brought me to DA originally... all the cool wings. 

 

I've been on a bike kick lately. We do have a Death Guard player in the group so it almost instantly kills bike lists, and Outrider options. It's good to remain balanced with DA in my opinion. Just have fun with it, if you want to play more competitively then you just have to look at the main Marine codex.

[Tacitus]

21 hours ago, Prot said:

 

 

- The characters are fun but after Azrael, the named characters fall off fast. (It's my belief GW is giving each army an amazing, well costed, HQ that symbolizes the codex. In our case this staple is Azrael.)  The Lion is something I've tried a lot and I think he's just a non-starter. The easiest way to improve any list with him is to take him out. I can always find a better way to spend those points, and he just doesn't help the army enough. Every time I play with Guilliman it kills me a bit inside at just how much better he is (and for the army.)

 

    - Generic characters: In my book here's my rule; if the character's cost is too high, then the force multiplier it brings much be amazing. Actually at any cost.  Example: Belial for example is costed okay, but his rules are not only an insult to the character, they're downright horrible. He adds nearly nothing to the unit. Upgrading to almost any generic Termie HQ is going to be a better choice. Or the case of a generic Jump Assault Captain is somewhere around the cost of 5 Jump assault marines! You're better off doubling the squad size.

 

- Detachments are another trap. They're really hard to make work correctly. I was all over the Grotmas detachment and it really let me down. I have played ICC probably 30 times.... maybe more, and it's almost good. Really close, but there's a reason it does so poorly in tournaments. The other DA ones are probably a bit worse. All are okay.

 

- So where's the success? In competitive play it's much harder now if you want to play DA units because you get Beta Oath. I've gone back and fourth between my DA and UM, and it is a small, but tremendous difference playing with Alpha Oath vs Beta Oath. Especially with Gman.

 

This means to take 'true DA', you have to take the best units you have access to, and apply them to vanilla marine detachments. Stormlance, Gladius, etc. 

 

 

 

That's the short version. There's plenty of advice out there on the generic units that do well... they're in most lists. Some units definitely shine with the appropriate detachments.

 

You really do have to figure out your playstyle though, and work with it. I like everything, and originally... over 20 years ago that brought me to DA originally... all the cool wings. 

 

I've been on a bike kick lately. We do have a Death Guard player in the group so it almost instantly kills bike lists, and Outrider options. It's good to remain balanced with DA in my opinion. Just have fun with it, if you want to play more competitively then you just have to look at the main Marine codex.

Prot and I did a round-and-round on this just before you got here  and some of the highlights - I pointed out The Lion is in a bad place and Prot did some testing and is even less impressed with the Lion than I am.  With that said I don't think the Lion is unusable.  He would be a lot better off with a few keywords.  He fails in DA detachments because he doesn't have Deathwing etc Keywords and thus can't take advantage of a bunch of the strats for the DA Dets.  A lot of the reason Guilliman looks better is that he can get hit by most-of-most-of the Compliant Dets i.e. most of the strats in most of the dets don't exclude him based on Keywords. He can pick Two of the Pick-One abilities which is no small thing, especially with one of them being create a second OOM Alpha target. 

 

The Lion pretty much only has the one Pick-One you'd want to pick anyway - the 4++ FNP aura.  The Battleshock + 1CP thing sounds fun, and its pretty fluffy in the Unforgiven Task Force det - in that you're already building towards Battleshock shennanigans - the problem is battleshock is pretty bad.  Especially battleshock you inflict on your turn.  Because it wears off at the beginning of theirs.  Battleshock would be far more interesting as a game mechanic if it lasted at least one full battleround/turn.  In addition if you already have Azrael you can't gain more than 1CP so you're always getting the 1CP from Azrael and can't gain the 1CP from the Lion if/when it gets triggered.  The DA Primarch in a DA detachment is a double whammy.  The Lion is in a bad spot, but he isn't necessarily bad.  The DA Dets are closer to bad.  So both together is the double whammy.

 

I like to make thematic lists first, then try and make them good so I will (almost never) have the ultra competitive list that creates a new Field Manual and Balance Dataslate - but I like what I make and it tends to do all right.  I'm kicking around The Lion in a Vanguard Spearhead right now - I'm not sure you've read the Horus Heresy books but at one point The Lion has one of his Primarch Brothers as a prisoner on his warship, the brother escapes, and gets locked into smaller subsection of the ship.  The Lion has to use his "free time" to go into that part of the ship and hunt down his brother - and it got me thinking about that type of force, and how to make it in current 40K.  And I like the idea of The Lion and some DWK etc running around at -1 to get hit.