How viable is an infantry-heavy BT army?

[Antarius]

My Horus Heresy project has been scuppered, as my friend would rather try 10th edition (I myself have only tried two small games, both of which I found enjoyable, but as you can imagine, I am hardly an expert). We’re not looking to do competitive stuff but I think it’s probably more fun if we can both realistically “do something” with our armies. He’s looking at Orks and I’m looking at Black Templars (and Deathwatch, but that’s another story) and I generally prefer my armies infantry heavy + I don’t like the new Primaris vehicles but I could use some of my OG marine tanks or Heresy stuff, as we don’t mind Legends.

 

So, anything I should be aware of? I like the idea of three Crusader squads and some of the more macabre looking characters (I have a Castellan as well as the Leviathan and previous starter set characters) but I worry that not having a lot of heavy firepower is going to be a problem? Am I right to worry or should I be able to handle most stuff by smashing it up in cc and/or purging it with fire?

[N1SB]

Our Warhammer Store manager, who's both a good strategist and a good salesman, main'd infantry-heavy BT.

 

He's got this philosophy that I like about how people choose their factions, that incidentally also supports your idea.  In addition to wanting to at least be competitive, people choose an army for a playstyle reason.  Like if people play Tau, they tend to want Battlesuits, which also happens to be their most competitive choice as well.

 

And in that same philosophy, if people were to play BT, it's for their Crusader Squads.  I think he does 1 massive blob of Crusaders with their Neophytes and 1 or 2 smaller ones, instead of 3 equally distributed Crusader Squads.  Not sure what he does for heavy firepower now, I'll let you know next time I talk to him about it.

 

I'll update you when I get more info.  But for theme, would you consider some Imperial Knights for the big guns?

[TheArtilleryman]

I think infantry-heavy is generally a good way to go for marines this edition. When you put down your marines and almost outnumber a guard or tau or ork player, you know you’re gonna have a good game. 
 

For firepower, even without vehicles you can still field eradicators, hellblasters, centurions, desolators and devastators, so you’ve got plenty of choices.

 

You could also drop in a dreadnought or two - redemptors are insanely good, and they’re on legs, so they’re technically still infantry, right?

Edited February 3 by TheArtilleryman

[Antarius]

Yeah, Dreadnoughts are awesome - I might use the old ones though, as I have plenty of them lying about (and I prefer the models). I'm not necessarily going pure infantry either, I just don't like the Primaris vehicles. I have no idea how essential transports are in 10th but that's what Land Raiders are for, right?

[TheArtilleryman]

Just now, Antarius said:

Yeah, Dreadnoughts are awesome - I might use the old ones though, as I have plenty of them lying about (and I prefer the models). I'm not necessarily going pure infantry either, I just don't like the Primaris vehicles. I have no idea how essential transports are in 10th but that's what Land Raiders are for, right?

Agreed about the primaris vehicles. For me they look great from above as you can pretend they’re on tracks, but I just can’t bring myself to like the anti-grav from the side.

 

Land Raiders are pretty good in 10th, I believe. The vehicle buff has made them very tough and they’re the only SM tanks with the assault ramp, which is such a massive thing. The turn-1-terminators-assaulting-from-a-land-raider bomb is back in 10th and frighteningly effective.

[TheNicronomicon]

1 hour ago, Antarius said:

Yeah, Dreadnoughts are awesome - I might use the old ones though, as I have plenty of them lying about (and I prefer the models). I'm not necessarily going pure infantry either, I just don't like the Primaris vehicles. I have no idea how essential transports are in 10th but that's what Land Raiders are for, right?

Land Raiders are probably the best transport/tank option for Marines in 10th. Better than the Repulsor or Repulsor Executioner by far, and you'll definitely want the assault ramp playing BT. Repulsors are decent transports if you use the shield dome and firing deck; great for ferrying MSUs around, but there's no reason you can't counts-as a Rhino in a friendly game. Or just ignore the Primaris restriction on the Rhinos! I doubt it's going to break your games. 

Signed, 

A Wolves player who likes sticking Ragnar and a lieutenant and a pack leader with a blob of Blood Claws into a Land Raider

[Helias_Tancred]

Helbrecht + sword brethren can wreck anything, including vehicles, etc. Run them in your list and get them where they need to go. 

 

 

[MadGamerAK]

3 hours ago, Helias_Tancred said:

Helbrecht + sword brethren can wreck anything, including vehicles, etc. Run them in your list and get them where they need to go. 

 

 

100%. These guys are destroyers.

[Antarius]

I definitely want Sword Brethren! I am thinking of not bringing any special characters though, so I hope that they are still viable with a standard Chaplain or similar character in tow.

[Helias_Tancred]

7 hours ago, Antarius said:

I definitely want Sword Brethren! I am thinking of not bringing any special characters though, so I hope that they are still viable with a standard Chaplain or similar character in tow.

 

They hit by far the hardest when paired with High Marshal Helbrecht and a Castellan/Lieutenant. So a 7 man squad total tossed in the back of an Impulsor, or put in a heavier transport like a Repulsor or a Land Raider works great! 

 

The castellan/lieutenant grants them all [Lethal Hits] which is a big big deal for them. Helbrecht has multiple bonuses he grants them, along with their built-in Sword Brethren unit abilities.  Lastly the vow you are running also buffs them, such as Accept Any Challenge No Matter the Odds which will grant them [Sustained Hits 1] on top of what they have plays a big role too. Also do not forget the stratagem Fervent Acclamation for vow addition & tweaking when you need it!

 

It is our unit that through adding a specific character or two, detachment vow taken, really kill almost anything on the tabletop. It is our heavy hitter unit. 

 

[Medjugorje]

At first - I hated everything about WP Detachment. But because I want to play everything I tried this detachment in 2 forms. One as intended by GW with Crusadersquads and  I was as expected not impressed but as MSU concept I not just won all my games - I SMASHED them. So I thought about what I my worst Matchup --> Imperial Guard with lot of tanks and Blood Angels with tanks and strong fast melee... first was a great victory and secound was a tight game we could not finished.

 

So at first --> no BT units sadly because I need +1 to wound for them.

 

2x Judiciar

2x Captains

1x Lietenant with Combi Weapon

 

1x5 Assault Intercessors

3x5 Intercessors

 

3x5 Jump Intercessors

3x5 Incursors

3x5 Sternguards

2x5 Scouts

2x6 Bladeguards

 

 

[Sir Clausel]

Interesting. How does the army play. Doesnt look like you have a lot of damage. So its mainly just scoring and trying to hold up the enemy?

[Helias_Tancred]

13 hours ago, Sir Clausel said:

Interesting. How does the army play. Doesnt look like you have a lot of damage. So its mainly just scoring and trying to hold up the enemy?

 

Yes! Inquiring intolerant and zealous minds would like to know?

 

 

[Medjugorje]

On 2/5/2025 at 8:57 AM, Sir Clausel said:

Interesting. How does the army play. Doesnt look like you have a lot of damage. So its mainly just scoring and trying to hold up the enemy?

3 squads of sternguard does sometime over 20 mortal wounds a turn. Against Vehicles with T11 the Bladeguard wound them on 4s (+1 S and +1 to wound). 

Captains on Sternguard and Assault Intercessors can reroll wound rolls on objectives/Oath-Target. Bladeguard makes opponents chargephase very dangerous because Heroic Intervention. Incursors does Mortal wounds.... I played with this list and it can deal a huge amount of damage

[Antarius]

Am I correct in thinking that non-BT specific characters can't be attached to the BT-specific squads? If so, that's rather sad - I mean a chaplain leading a Crusader or Sword Brethren squad seems very much like it should be a thing, but as they're not listed on the datasheet for a standard Chaplain...

[Sir Clausel]

6 hours ago, Antarius said:

Am I correct in thinking that non-BT specific characters can't be attached to the BT-specific squads? If so, that's rather sad - I mean a chaplain leading a Crusader or Sword Brethren squad seems very much like it should be a thing, but as they're not listed on the datasheet for a standard Chaplain...

Look at the crusader squad and sword brethren. Its says something like "if a leader can attach to x squad it can attach to this"

[SWORD BROTHER RYAN]

As an old BT player, I can tell you that BT was nearly always geared to be infantry heavy. Up close and personal has always been where they're the most dangerous. A few light transports to get them across the board, or LRC for better protection, but the foot troops have been the bread and butter for us since I started playing, at least. In my opinion, you have the right idea.

[Medjugorje]

8 hours ago, SWORD BROTHER RYAN said:

As an old BT player, I can tell you that BT was nearly always geared to be infantry heavy. Up close and personal has always been where they're the most dangerous. A few light transports to get them across the board, or LRC for better protection, but the foot troops have been the bread and butter for us since I started playing, at least. In my opinion, you have the right idea.

It was often a thing but never the only thing - In 3rd editon BT was the strongest Rhino-Rush army, in 5th edition Land Speeder Spam. And now Vehicles again... 

In 4th there was Black Tide, in 10th there was black tide.

[Antarius]

17 hours ago, Sir Clausel said:

Look at the crusader squad and sword brethren. Its says something like "if a leader can attach to x squad it can attach to this"

Ah, I see. Thanks! I knew it couldn't be true, but apparently I just hadn't looked properly 

[N1SB]

Hey Brother Antarius, just going back to 1 of your original points because I promised I'd follow up:

 

On 2/3/2025 at 8:17 PM, Antarius said:

but I worry that not having a lot of heavy firepower is going to be a problem? Am I right to worry or should I be able to handle most stuff by smashing it up in cc and/or purging it with fire?

 

I said I'd ask my Warhammer Store manager who ran a thematic, infantry-heavy BT list.  He boiled it down to 2 options.

 

1st option., Eradicators.  Same with other Marine armies, the go-to pound-for-pound anti-Tank/Monster option.

 

On 2/4/2025 at 12:11 PM, Helias_Tancred said:

Helbrecht + sword brethren can wreck anything, including vehicles, etc. Run them in your list and get them where they need to go. 

 

And this was exactly the 2nd option.  Helbrecht buffs the Sword Brethrens' Devastating Wounds to score Critical Wounds on a 5+ edit: and the Castellan to bring the Lethal Hits (as per below).  He also mentioned there's a 0 Command Points Stratagem that further enhances this or something?  But in any case, SWORD BRETHRENS!  They're anti-Everything.

 

As a Necrons player using multiple C'tan, I fear lots of Mortal Wounds than a single big cannon.

 

You already plan to get Sword Brethren, so this just supports that decision, I really can't remember what Strategem he mentioned (sorry 'bout that), and if that don't work, Eradicators is just a fallback.  But I think my C'tan would be way more afraid of Sword Brethren.

Edited February 11 by N1SB

[Medjugorje]

Its not just sword brethren. Its all armies / units which can have access to critical hits on 5s and lethal hits. Sword Brethren can have it twice when you take (for example) 

 

Helbrecht (critical hits on 5s) + 5 Sowrd Brethren + Castellan (Lethal hits)

5 Sword Brethren + Castellan (lethal hits) with Sigismunds seal (critical hits on 5s).

 

In adddition you have sustained hits for the whole army - and for the two squads sword brethren in addion to lethal hits (both on 5s)

Because everything is already triggered you can put them inside of a transport (with fervant accl. Strat you have to stay outside of a transport).

 

[Helias_Tancred]

Yeah don't leave out the castellan with those sword brethren and Helbrecht. His lethal hits is a big part of it.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 11 by Helias_Tancred