The Abolishers - Brainstorming wanted.

[Codex Grey]

I have a seed of an idea and want to see what it might grow into. I suspect the concept might turn out a bit similar to some existing Chapters, but while I don't mind sharing some traits, the goal is to create something that feels distinct.

 

So, any ideas and suggestions are welcomed and appreciated.

 

Here's what I have:

 

The Abolishers.

 

 

Beliefs: Unity through uniformity: Imperial unity is strength, and unity comes from uniformity (in beliefs, in traditions, etc.), so divergence weakens the Imperium. Abhors divergence in any form, be it heretical teachings, genetic impurity, or even organizational irregularities.

 

Combat Doctrine: They are known for their extreme measures, as they don't want any trace of divergence to survive an enemy's defeat.

 

Geneseed: Guilliman. Extreme adherence to the Codex. However, it could be fun if they had an outdated or simply wrong version of it, which they had to grapple with when Bobby G returned.

 

And that's it for now. Thoughts?

 

Edit: Clarified some things.

Edited February 6 by Codex Grey

[Wormwoods]

While 'they're VERY GOOD at following the rules!' is rarely that much fun to actually play/write/model, I do like the idea that it's taken to an extreme. You could do something with firstborn marines, maybe they're so dedicated to the version of the Codex they consider Most Correct that they don't accept Primaris upgrades, or they do, but refuse to change the organisation of the chapter. Running Primaris Tactical and Devastator squads with the old, standard wargear.

 

Failing that, just have them be fully wrong about it. They're obsessed with following the guidance of a version of the Codex that has itself diverged at some point in the past, as one has to imagine most things do over the course of 10,000 years. What does that do to their chapter identity when G-man comes back and offers updates that don't even reference the version of the text they've been following all this time. Plenty of room for drama.

 

Anyway, it's a solid starting point! The chapter symbol could do with a second pass, perhaps? It reads more like a Veteran Devestator symbol that it does a chapter badge. 

[apologist]

'Following the rules to a fault' is a thread running right through the Imperium of the 41st Millennium, and the Abolishers are thus a neat microcosm of that. Exploring all the unintended consequences of such a stance will be interesting.

 

It's something that the Black Consuls are known for, so you might consider having the Abolishers draw a line of descent through them. That then nods to the idea that you're aware of it, and you can riff off it to make the Abolishers more distinct.

 

As a twist on the ultra-reactionary approach of the Black Consuls, you might decide that the philosophy of Unity through Uniformity doesn't preclude gradual drift. In other words, as long as the whole Chapter changes at the same time (to adopt a new practise, for example), that's okay. 

 

Idea for a motto: Remanentia eadem quae eadem manent. Or roughly: 'Things stay the same that can stay the same'.

 

Thus you could have an underlying (and fairly reasonable) stance that their version of the Codex makes it explicit that it's advice and suggestions based on history, and thus offers a path to follow, rather than being an end in itself. The Abolishers point to parts of it that suggest things like changing uniform markings to throw off the enemy, or improvising and adapting, to justify their mindset.

 

I can picture a big debating chamber where all the Abolishers meet to discuss such minutiae, and how to react to calls for help/aid  and threats; perhaps appealing to reams and reams of historical records with similar events. You might have officers or individual squad members known for their rhetoric, who are delegated to the chamber on behalf of disparate groups, to ensure that the Chapter remains acting as one, even when split up. Communications and reporting would be essential, so the Librarius might be particularly influential – perhaps even to the point that they have dedicated Battle Brethren cycled through to support the psychic members.

 

The Primaris edict would be a big change, but not necessarily one that the Chapter would object to – as long as they can all endure it in one fell swoop... which might make it impractical.

[N1SB]

Love the idea, love the discussion.

 

Reading what you guys said so far reminded me of a weird idea running through Dark Imperium and The Great Work.

 

It's the You-Can-Have-the-Cake-AND-Eat-It Theorem of how you can have Primaris that are strangely old-fashioned.

 

 

+++ The Cake-And-Eat-It Theorem +++

 

 

The Primaris are "new" Space Marines designed by Techmagos Belisarius Cawl, a very old techpriest.

 

The problem is Cawl himself is 10,000 years old and inherited the project around the time of the Scouring, was NOT a soldier, NOT an expert on warfare.  He was innovating, but it was still based on Legion-based tactics from the time of the Great Crusade and the Horus Heresy, and that was even impressed on the initial Primaris.

 

Example - notice the Primaris Intercessors and Hellblaster Squads.  The Intercessors are all Boltgun guys, just like Tac Squads in 30k, while the Hellblasters are all Plasma Gunners, like 30k Special Weapon Squads.  They don't do 1 Hellblaster in a unit of Intercessors like with 40k Tac Squads.  It's like holdout ideas from the 30k era.

 

In The Great Work they actually described how the original batch of Primaris learned combat tactics.  Cawl would experiment with them to refine the Primaris process, then they'd go to sleep with these combat tactics engrams playing, like listening to tapes to learn a new language, all designed by Cawl.

 

And it proved to be a problem.  In Dark Imperium, those very Primaris remarked how their 1st combat experiences were terrible, huge casualties, because they found those engrams they learned from were faulty.  Cawl was ultimately a Techpriest, he was theorycrafting, he could shoot a guy but not command a war.

 

These original Unnumbered Sons/Grey Shields adapted, but such deeply embedded indoctrination might not be easy to shake off.

 

Example - there's a Dark Angels story in the 8th or9th ed intro anthology novel where the Dark Angels were trying to train up a Primaris Confessor.  He so could not accept the existence of the Fallen that he basically had a breakdown, and eventually his Inner Circle mentor training him had to kill him quietly.

 

Thus, you have these new Primaris Marines that actually operate off very old ideas indeed.

 

 

+++ New Sons Of Old Science +++

 

 

An actual quote I think from Dark Imperium but it's all just a blob now, was Guilliman describing Primaris as the "new sons of old science."

 

That's how I'm thinking about the Abolishers if you decide to stick with Primaris, Brother Grey.  They're super-indoctrinated by Cawl's engrams.

 

And they're not at fault.  It might not just be adherence to only the Codex Astartes.  Cawl designed some good weapons and armour, they might just trust all his blueprints.  Other Chapters struggled with Primaris-fication, the Abolishers might be amazing at it because they follow Cawl's genetic engineering instructions.

 

The Abolishers might even prove Cawl's engrams were right even for combat tactics.  Like the early casualties suffered by the Unnumbered Sons/Grey Shields weren't from bad engrams, it was from bad execution, the Techpriest's idea was to wipe EVERYTHING out instead of just capping Objectives.

 

(I played Mechanicum in 1st ed 30k.  They're really geared to wipe out everything and send Thallaxes to stand on Objectives late game.)

 

I'll leave it here for now, but in retrospect, I think the New-Sons-Of-Old-Science Theorem would sound a lot better than Cake-And-Eat It Theorem.  I dunno.  It's pretty late and I just got a hankering for cheesecake or something.  But I think this conversation is sound, and not paradoxical even with very old-fashioned Primaris.

[grailkeeper]

What exactly do they want to abolish?

 

Sounds to me more of a renegade name, but there could be scope for something thrrr. Perhaps they're Siege specialists. Perhaps they specialising in taking down corrupted parts of the Imperium.

[Codex Grey]

@Wormwoods

 

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Failing that, just have them be fully wrong about it. They're obsessed with following the guidance of a version of the Codex that has itself diverged at some point in the past, as one has to imagine most things do over the course of 10,000 years. What does that do to their chapter identity when G-man comes back and offers updates that don't even reference the version of the text they've been following all this time. Plenty of room for drama.

 

This is essentially what I am thinking. It is always fun to mirror history and modern society within the 40k universe by taking things to the extreme.
And this may be a way to explore how fundamentalists behave when faced with their own contradictions and attacks on their identity.

 

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The chapter symbol could do with a second pass, perhaps? It reads more like a Veteran Devestator symbol that it does a chapter badge.

 

I guess I should explain my thoughts around the symbol. The idea I was going for was overkill. Not only the skull, the symbol of death, but the skull engulfed in an explosion. I think it's simple and effective and relatively easy to reproduce (freehand the explosion, use leftover black skulls from a transfer), but due to your comment, I might try my initial idea again of a screaming face inside the explosion, though my first attempts did not satisfy me. Open for suggestions here.

 

 

@apologist

 

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As a twist on the ultra-reactionary approach of the Black Consuls, you might decide that the philosophy of Unity through Uniformity doesn't preclude gradual drift. In other words, as long as the whole Chapter changes at the same time (to adopt a new practise, for example), that's okay. 

 

I like the way you think and this is definitely distinct, though the subtleties of interpretation and small changes over time feel like a fairly different direction from where I was heading with them. Maybe if I combine them and make them start out as more open to interpretation, and then they devolve over the millennia into close-minded fundamentalists.

 

Here's what I'm thinking. I like the idea of Unity through Uniformity extending beyond the Chapter (which is partly why they are called the Abolishers). They want the Imperium to be strong, not only by defeating enemies, but by stamping out divergence within the Imperium, as divergence makes the whole weaker, in their very strong opinion, while uniformity unifies and makes things stronger.

 

This is why the Codex (their version) is so important to them, as it spells out what a Chapter - every Chapter - should be like. And they make their opinions heard when around other Imperial forces.

 

There might be a juicy contradiction here. They don't think they or any other Chapter have the right to go against the Codex, but they do think they have the one true correct interpretation of it.

 

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I can picture a big debating chamber where all the Abolishers meet to discuss such minutiae, and how to react to calls for help/aid  and threats; perhaps appealing to reams and reams of historical records with similar events. You might have officers or individual squad members known for their rhetoric, who are delegated to the chamber on behalf of disparate groups, to ensure that the Chapter remains acting as one, even when split up.

 

I dig this, and I think it still works with my initial direction. Continuing on from what I said above, perhaps this Forum / Chamber was originally intended for discussions and interpretations of the Codex, that went on for hundred of years with even guests participating. Then slowly over time the place devolves into a literal echo-chamber, and more of a ceremonial facility for reaffirming established truths than a place for open discussion.

 

Over the following thousands of years, only newly discovered alien threats and unprecedented situations spark any sort of discussions, but they more often than not ended by adhering to how things have always been done, until Era Indomitus turns everything on its head and revitalizes the Forum. I sense some juicy parallels with the real world here. And even the B&C forums 

 

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It's something that the Black Consuls are known for, so you might consider having the Abolishers draw a line of descent through them. That then nods to the idea that you're aware of it, and you can riff off it to make the Abolishers more distinct.

 

That could work. Or maybe the White Consuls, who are known for believing Space Marines should govern as well as fight, leading to the Abolishers having built-in OPINIONS on such matters from the get-go, thereby giving the precedence for discussing (and then setting in stone) how such matters should be handled.

 

 

@N1SB

 

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That's how I'm thinking about the Abolishers if you decide to stick with Primaris, Brother Grey.  They're super-indoctrinated by Cawl's engrams.

 

Love the ideas, but they might be even further in another direction then where I was headed. However, based on what I've written above in regards to apologist's suggestion, if I go for the Chamber of Discussion idea, the Primaris could have a big role in arguing for change within the Chapter, which to them would not be change but sticking to a different dogma.

 

---

 

Thanks for the comments so far! You have given me lots to think about.

 

Random thought: Perhaps their geneseed has degraded over the years. Not so much that they couldn't dismiss it as a minor issue, and when Primaris technology restores their geneseed, they quietly sweep the issue under a rug and pretend it never happened. This just further cements their perceived high standards as misguided.

Edited February 6 by Codex Grey

[Codex Grey]

21 minutes ago, grailkeeper said:

What exactly do they want to abolish?

 

Heresy, initially. Later includes divergence more broadly.

 

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Sounds to me more of a renegade name, but there could be scope for something thrrr. Perhaps they're Siege specialists. Perhaps they specialising in taking down corrupted parts of the Imperium.

 

Corrupted parts of the Imperium definitely fall under what they would consider divergence.

 

But you mention renegades. I've actually toyed with the idea of them turning renegade at some point. Perhaps even as a consequence of internal disagreements, which might include the introduction of the Primaris, or earlier as their ideas of divergence leads them into conflict with another Imperial force or something.

[grailkeeper]

Most things that get abolished are authorites of some kind. The Imperium is all about authority. 

[Wormwoods]

7 hours ago, apologist said:

The Primaris edict would be a big change, but not necessarily one that the Chapter would object to – as long as they can all endure it in one fell swoop... which might make it impractical.

Funnily enough, I know a handful of people who did this IRL. Didn't get any Primaris units until they had enough options available that they felt they could build an entire army entirely from the new models.

[Brother Hellion]

Getting some Red Scorpion vibes here, perhaps the abolishers are a successor from those forge world poster boys?

 

Paint scheme's not bad either with the bright orange with black/white torso mix. 

 

But in seriousness what purpose do the abolishers serve?  Saying they hunt down "heresy" is pretty generic. You have to remember that founding a chapter takes a bit of resources so they have to be set up in a place where they are going to be needed for; such as guarding a space lane through a sub-sector from Drukkari pirate raids or to crusade across a segmentum to quell ork populations.  There's also the whole protecting a holy sanctuary that once was a site of a great battle of a primarch during the crusade, blah blah. 

 

From the name I'm getting the impression they stand against tyranny so may haps they were formed in response to large chaos warbands in their sub-sector?

[Codex Grey]

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But in seriousness what purpose do the abolishers serve?  Saying they hunt down "heresy" is pretty generic.

 

I think most Chapters are expected to travel far and wide to respond to any threat against the Imperium, and though some are given more specific tasks, I think its perfectly reasonable for a Chapter to be given a general area of operations to shore up a general lack of defenses in a region. And yes, Heresy is generic, but deliberately so, as it gives them a nice and simple personal goal as a starting point. From there, their goals and beliefs should develop into something more specific and distinct.

I'm not against giving them a more specific starting agenda, but right now I feel it makes sense if they were more free to choose their own purpose, and therefore name, to go with it, and then they could figure out what that actually means to them over the following years. Does that make sense?

 

Speaking of the name, let me expand on my thoughts there.

The archaic meaning of Abolish is to destroy or put an end to something. This fits nicely and generically with what Space Marines do. However, the modern use of the word means to officially end a law, system, institution, custom or practice, and I want to incorporate these connotations into the themes of the Chapter.

Ideally, I would like to include most of these elements as things for the Abolishers to abolish, within the context of the 40k universe, so the name feels justified. (That being said, I'm not completely against changing the name either, if the concept develops into something very specific and another name fits better.) Laws, systems, and institutions are all part of any secessionist governments, so those are covered whenever they go to war against human rebellions, though more specificity would be nice. Practices could mean tech-heresy or genetic tampering, while customs could relate to more religious deviancy.

 

Speaking of religious deviancy. Most Space Marines are basically religious deviants themselves when it comes to the Imperial Cult. Do the Abolishers follow the Cult? Or do they consider Space Marines separate from humans, and therefore divergence means different things for different groups? Part of what I want to achieve here is a Chapter that on the surface fits nicely into what people think of a generic one-of-a-thousand Chapter, but when you dig a bit deeper, you'll find where they stand out. But viewing the Emperor as a god is noted as being rare among Astartes and feels like too big of a difference for the Abolishers, if that makes sense. I would like to hear some opinions and suggestions.

 

Edited February 7 by Codex Grey

[Brother Cambrius]

The first instinct I have upon looking at the name and colours is that I can see this Chapter using such an old version of the Codex that they have Destroyer type weapons and utilise them in serious conflicts that require absolute abolition of their quarry.

Very much beyond the standard norm of a Codex oriented Chapter, but it really gives me that vibe akin to my old Demolishers chapter (who were also orange amusedly).

 

Cambrius

[N1SB]

On 2/7/2025 at 4:54 PM, Codex Grey said:

Ideally, I would like to include most of these elements as things for the Abolishers to abolish, within the context of the 40k universe, so the name feels justified. (That being said, I'm not completely against changing the name either, if the concept develops into something very specific and another name fits better.) Laws, systems, and institutions are all part of any secessionist governments, so those are covered whenever they go to war against human rebellions, though more specificity would be nice. Practices could mean tech-heresy or genetic tampering, while customs could relate to more religious deviancy.

 

Speaking of religious deviancy. Most Space Marines are basically religious deviants themselves when it comes to the Imperial Cult. Do the Abolishers follow the Cult? Or do they consider Space Marines separate from humans, and therefore divergence means different things for different groups? Part of what I want to achieve here is a Chapter that on the surface fits nicely into what people think of a generic one-of-a-thousand Chapter, but when you dig a bit deeper, you'll find where they stand out. But viewing the Emperor as a god is noted as being rare among Astartes and feels like too big of a difference for the Abolishers, if that makes sense. I would like to hear some opinions and suggestions.

 

 

Great discussion to lead to this point.  I think abolishing unImperial things is the crux, and the Codex Astartes is downstream of that.

 

Abolishing secessionists, especially in this time of the Dark Imperium where the Great Rift has split the Imperium in twain, is VERY RELEVANT.  And even before that, the Badab War is proof positive of this problem.  Huron had effectively assembled his own Badab empire, the Maelstrom Warders forming a min-Legion.

 

And it shows the significance of the Codex Astartes.  Adherence to that would've prevented the Badab War, as a key issue in the Codex was to break up the Legions into individual Chapters precisely to prevent this accumulation of power.  Just as Badab proved the need for abolishing, the Codex warned against its existence.

 

Badab is just 1 example, but it's still in recent memory and it's such a "See?  Told you" evidence of what Abolishers are all about.

 

And regarding religion, just as there are splinter empires, there are many schisms and mini-Imperial Cults...maybe they need abolishing.

 

I just had this weird thought.  For irony, imagine the Abolishers refusing to worship the Emperor, but end up almost quasi-worshipping Roboute Guilliman because he wrote their gospel, the Codex Astartes.  It's like Life of Brian where he's trying to tell people to think for themselves and they all simultaneously reply, "Yes, we're all individuals!"

[Codex Grey]

15 hours ago, N1SB said:

Abolishing secessionists, especially in this time of the Dark Imperium where the Great Rift has split the Imperium in twain, is VERY RELEVANT.

 

Here's a question: Which side of the rift should be their home turf? Right now, I'm thinking they should be on the dark side, so that they are now freer than ever to render their judgement on others, abolishing any sign of secession and feel more justified for doing so.

 

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 just had this weird thought.  For irony, imagine the Abolishers refusing to worship the Emperor, but end up almost quasi-worshipping Roboute Guilliman because he wrote their gospel, the Codex Astartes.  It's like Life of Brian where he's trying to tell people to think for themselves and they all simultaneously reply, "Yes, we're all individuals!"

 

Yup, this is essentially where my ideas where headed as well. Thanks!

Edited February 11 by Codex Grey

[grailkeeper]

Are they called the Abolishers or is that a semi formal nickname. There's a couple of chapters with more than one name. For example charcaradons/space sharks.

[N1SB]

6 hours ago, Codex Grey said:

 

Here's a question: Which side of the rift should be their home turf? Right now, I'm thinking they should be on the dark side, so that they are now freer than ever to render their judgement on others, abolishing any side of secession and feel more justified for doing so.

 

 

It's like that prison scene "I'm not locked in here with you, YOU'RE LOCKED IN HERE WITH ME!"

 

I just remembered from the 1st ed Rogue Trader book, there was this spiel about the Eye of Terror...back then.  It was just a reoccurring warpstorm, the worlds inside were pretty lawless, and Space Marines would rush in to reinforce order when it dissipates.  There was that picture of Marines telling some street ganger with a mohawk to put his hands on the wall and spread 'em.  Now, of course the Eye of Terror has evolved in the lore, but the themes we're talking about here remind me of that.

 

Because with Terra and the Imperial bureaucracy out of reach, the Abolishers ARE Imperial law.

 

6 hours ago, grailkeeper said:

Are they called the Abolishers or is that a semi formal nickname. There's a couple of chapters with more than one name. For example charcaradons/space sharks.

 

Yeah, what do you think, Brother?  Brother Grailkeeper is the legal expert, we should all listen to him.

 

Like some planetary governor had inadvertently dubbed this Chapter, "These would-be...ABOLISHERS of my I mean OUR great empire..."

[Codex Grey]

14 hours ago, grailkeeper said:

Are they called the Abolishers or is that a semi formal nickname. There's a couple of chapters with more than one name. For example charcaradons/space sharks.

 

Though I like the suggestion, I'm unsure.

 

On one hand, space marines tend to be very proud about things such as their name, and it doesn't feel like this Chapter would simply adopt a nickname given to them by their enemies or less-than-friendly allies. It feels more like something they would choose themselves, though I may be convinced otherwise. I also want to call the article what they call themselves.

 

On the other hand, this could play into the development of their beliefs and their reputation over time. Perhaps they embraced the nickname after someone argued for it in the great forum (They call us Abolishers. I say, that is exactly what we are!) or after the Great Rift appeared. It could also hint at a coming fall from grace, similar to the Fire Claws/Relictors. They are for all intents and purposes loyal, currently, but if someone like Roboute Guilliman got wind of how freely they render their judgement in the Dark Imperium, they might get slapped hard on the wrist. Or worse.

 

But I'm unsure. I would also need another name for them.

 

 

7 hours ago, N1SB said:

Because with Terra and the Imperial bureaucracy out of reach, the Abolishers ARE Imperial law.

 

Exactly. Cue Judge Dredd music. Hmm, maybe there could/should be some tie-in with the Arbites? 

Edited February 11 by Codex Grey

[Felix Antipodes]

It is well established in the lore that not every Chapter retains their original Founding name, icon and/or colours for a multitude of reasons.  It is even stated in the Codex Astartes that it’s okay to change these things up occasionally to confuse the enemy.

Your Abolishers may have been issued their name from the Ad Mech’s “Big Book of Names & Colours For New Foundings” or they may have adopted it somewhere along the way as something that closer reflects the Chapter’s ethos.  As an assigned name they don’t have to want to abolish anything really (although I think you want to pursue angle, as is your right - your boys, your call, etc).  I’m sure the Lamenters aren’t big on lamenting for instance 

 

I like the idea of a Chapter trapped in Nihilis attempting to maintain their idea of what the Imperium is in their eyes.  You might consider basing them at a distance from Baal and the Blood Angels, who might have a different idea on how to do the same.  Imho, the idea works better if they are unsure if there is an Imperium surviving on the other side of the Rift.

 

I also like your colour scheme and don’t mind the Chapter icon.  It is simple and clear and a lot better than many I’ve seen over the years.

[Codex Grey]

@Felix Antipodes You're right. I think for simplicity's sake, I'm just calling them Abolishers for now.

 

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You might consider basing them at a distance from Baal and the Blood Angels, who might have a different idea on how to do the same.  Imho, the idea works better if they are unsure if there is an Imperium surviving on the other side of the Rift.

 

I was actually just thinking about this, about how they would react to the deviant Dante being their Superior commander. But I like your suggest of keeping them at a distance. That way, even if word finally got to them that Dante was given command of Nihilus, it wouldn't change too much. They can grumble from a distance and focus on the mountain of problems they have to deal with in their own region.

 

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I also like your colour scheme and don’t mind the Chapter icon.  It is simple and clear and a lot better than many I’ve seen over the years.

 

Thanks. I'll keep it for now, unless something else comes to me. That being said, in regards to the Colors Scheme, I think I may reserve the scheme for Veterans only, as I want to give the superficial impression of a Codex Compliant Chapter, and sticking to the Ultramarines way of denoting companies by should trim color seems like the way to go. I might keep the universal white helmets though.

 

---

 

Thanks for all the input so far! Based on the ideas and discussions, here's an updated outline which I hope captures what I'm going for in a way that makes sense.

I'll be sticking to a version of the standard Index Astartes articles, as that is my preference. And I see no reason to deviate 

 

ABOLISHERS

Motto: Strength from Unity - Unity from Uniformity

Origins:

- Fairly early founding, leaving room for development of beliefs. Somewhere between 6th and 20th. Perhaps unknown exactly which. Unsure.

- Trained by a veteran cadre from the White Consuls, bringing with them knowledge and OPINIONS on governance.

- They vow to stamp out heresy in all its forms and to strengthen the Imperium from within.

- Initial crusade last a long time before taking a homeworld.

Homeworld:

- Helps joint Imperial effort to strike down secessionist government on [World Name], a civilized world in the Ultima Segmentum.

- They succeed, then leave, but come back on their own when another rebellion springs up on the planet shortly after the first one.

- Abolishers take drastic measures to end the rebellion, and to ensure that the world never turns again, they take the world as their own and set up a new world order.

- It is here that the Chapter constructs its great Forum. (name?)

- As they continue to fight for the Imperium, debates rage for centuries within the forum, about strength, unity, divergence, interpretations of the Codex, etc..

- Eventually, a set of precieved truths and interpretations of the Codex solidify, and the forum slowly turns from a place of open discussion to an echo chamber.

- The introduction of Primaris into their ranks has shaken up several of their strongly held opinions and the forum has become revitalized.

Beliefs:

- Believe in strengthening the Imperium from within, not just destroying external threats.

- Believe heresy and weakness stems from divergence.

- Have defined an array of rules and guidelines for what constitutes divergence, way beyond the Codex and Space Marine Chapters.

- See Astartes and Chapters as different from regular humans and institutions, with a different set of rules for each group, including religious beliefs.

- While they do not venerate the Emperor as a god, as most Chapters do not, they have come to venerate the Codex as a holy text.

Organization:

- Their abhorrence of divergence includes any organizational irregularities,
resulting in a strict adherence to the guidelines of the Codex Astartes, as if their Primarch's words were divine law.

- However, unbeknownst to the Chapter, their version of the Codex, preserved and protected within the lower vaults of the Great Forum, 
is itself a flawed copy of the original tome. A divergence. 

- Exactly how this divergence in their Codex manifests itself I'm still unsure of. It would have to be subtle enough. Maybe its just their overreliance of firepower?

Combat Doctrine:

- While they strive to uphold the virtues of adaptability on the battlefield as the Codex dictates, they still rely more often than not on superior firepower.

- This ties into their goals of not only defeating their foes, but to eradicate any trace of the heresy that led their enemies to fall in the first place.

- Treat human enemies with the same hatred as they have for xnenos, perhaps even more.

- Since the Great Rift appeared, their judgement has been rendered more freely and frequently.

Geneseed:

- Mostly stable and pure, yet some minor degradations have occurred over the years.

- These flaws are not considered a problem and the Chapter prefer to ignore them, and with the introduction Primaris technology, these flaws have been corrected
and quietly struck from the records.

 

Personality Quirks: 

- Cordial and quick to praise the achievements of other, yet equally quick to point out divergence where they see it.

- Have petitioned the High Lords of Terra more than once to sanction allies for divergent conduct.

Additional notes and thoughts:

- Perhaps their methods in the Dark Imperium is pushing them to become Heretics themselves.

- What role could the Adeptus Arbites have in their history and methods? Should they have a role?

- What effect does the Primaris perspective have on their beliefs, if any? I would prefer to somehow justify that they don't temper their more extreme ways, as that woudl water down their whole shtick.

Edited February 11 by Codex Grey

[grailkeeper]

How do their opinions on divergence affect their relationships with the Inquisition and Mechanicum? These can have widely diverging opinions on orthodoxy and are very powerful.

 

 

What's the biggest problem these guys face and why?

 

Outside of the universe will you be playing these guys? What units will you use? Who will yo uplay against? It might affect these guys lore.

 

 

Edited February 11 by grailkeeper

[Felix Antipodes]

Since they have been contacted by a Torchbearer fleet unit (as they have received Primaris technology) the Chapter must have some idea of the current status of the Imperium and the return of their pin-up boy Roboute.  The latter especially should have lit a fire under them.  Enough to attempt to send an envoy?

With their aversion to change, I could see them accepting the Primaris technology and troops but not the new formations ie Primaris square pegs being forced into a Firstborn round hole organisational role (Tactical vice Intercessor, etc).  That could be avoided by their different rules for Astartes compared to humans?

 

Not sure how to work Arbites into their paradigm…  Maybe they took control of them after the second rebellion and use them as some form of secret police providing some sort of overview of the local Enforcers, PDF, and politicians?  Admittedly outside their role as enforcers of Imperial laws only, but after two revolts in recent memory they their senior officers may have felt accepting the Chapter and their viewpoint was the best way to achieve their mandate.  Especially after the Rift formed.

 

[Codex Grey]

23 hours ago, grailkeeper said:

How do their opinions on divergence affect their relationships with the Inquisition and Mechanicum? These can have widely diverging opinions on orthodoxy and are very powerful.

They would definitely fall under the "Different groups have different rules" rule. And when it comes to the Inquisition, I think it would be in their best interest to form a good working  relationship with local Ordo Hereticus members. (guest speakers at the Great Forum?) Perhaps they have stepped on their toes from time to time over the thousand of years they have been operational, but in general I think they would get along just fine. However, if that is the case, the local Ordo branch would either have to be fully in support of their current hardline approach, or have no real way to oppose them.

 

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What's the biggest problem these guys face and why?

 

I don't know if they really have one big problem, just multiple generic problems, like most Imperial forces in Nihilus.

 

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Outside of the universe will you be playing these guys? What units will you use? Who will yo uplay against? It might affect these guys lore.

 

I have never played a game in my life and probably never will (maybe kill team at some point). I write because I enjoy it, so the lore usually comes first.

However, I do like thinking about how I would represent my written creations, but when it comes to the Abolishers, a slight overrepresentation of heavy fire support units is really all I envision.

 

22 hours ago, Felix Antipodes said:

Since they have been contacted by a Torchbearer fleet unit (as they have received Primaris technology) the Chapter must have some idea of the current status of the Imperium and the return of their pin-up boy Roboute.  The latter especially should have lit a fire under them.  Enough to attempt to send an envoy?

With their aversion to change, I could see them accepting the Primaris technology and troops but not the new formations ie Primaris square pegs being forced into a Firstborn round hole organisational role (Tactical vice Intercessor, etc).  That could be avoided by their different rules for Astartes compared to humans?

 

 

Good points. I'll try to address all of them to some degree in the article. In regards to primaris vs. firstborn, I think it would depend on the result of the debates in the Great Forum. I was thinking those debates are still raging, so maybe the firstborn formation are the only ones being used for the moment.

 

EDIT: Here's an updated version of the scheme with symbols and company colors on shoulder trims. I went for 5th company since, apart from the 1st company white, I think the simplicity of black looks the best. I'm keeping the helmet white for all companies as part of the base scheme.

 

 

Edited February 12 by Codex Grey

[N1SB]

I've mulled this over before replying, because taking a bit of time gives us a more holistic view of how things fit together.

 

 

+++ Roboute Guilliman and his Codex Astartes as NEAR-religious icons +++

 

 

The Primarch and his word is where I keep returning to, because Uniformity Through Unity sounds SO much like him!

 

But playing it out, I think the theme of the Abolishers is best-served with NEAR-idolatry, but never quite reaching it.

 

So it'd be like an Abolisher Chaplain instructing the Primaris, holding up the Codex Astartes (literally and figuratively), "This text has proven PROPHETIC!  The Badab War started precisely because the Tyrant of Badab assembled several Chapters together, going against the TEACHINGS of the Emperor's Avenging SON himself."

 

Like when we IRL say "teachings" of the God Emperor's "son", we kinda naturally associate it with a messiah figure?

 

It's actually from the language used, I suppose.  "Prophetic" without actually saying "prophet."  "Providence" instead of divine intervention, "It was the Primarch's PROVIDENCE that brought you, the Primaris, to us.  The Codex Astartes are his will and TESTAMENT."  Ya, see, "testament" instead of "scripture."

 

The satire is none of those words per se are religious.  Like a testament is just a document, but it's borderline.

 

And I think that's what we're going for, going as close to the line as possible.  I think this wordplay is how we do it.

 

With Roboute Guilliman having this treatment, another group would have his blessing ("blessing" is another good word used like this).

 

 

+++ No geneseed justification for the Primaris +++

 

 

The geneseed issue seemed like a rationale to explain the adoption of the Primaris, but you don't need it!

 

The Primaris should be accepted simply because Roboute Guilliman SAID SO.  No further explanation needed!

 

I'm with Brother Felix, the way the Abolishers would respond to the Torchbearer fleet isn't so much they bring Primaris with Techpriests and the Emperor's golden guards of the Custodes themselves...it's the orders of Roboute Guilliman himself.  Like that Dataslate telling the Chapter to take them in itself would be a relic.

 

If anything, it'd be a credit to the Abolishers that their existing geneseed was so pure that it was very compatible with the Primaris's, since Cawl had used the original stuff, making their crossing the rubicon much easier.  It's both proof of Strength Through Uniformity AND how Abolishers practice what they preach.

 

This leads us to...

 

 

+++ How the Primaris are treated +++

 

 

On 2/11/2025 at 6:14 PM, Codex Grey said:

- What effect does the Primaris perspective have on their beliefs, if any? I would prefer to somehow justify that they don't temper their more extreme ways, as that woudl water down their whole shtick.

 

I get it now.  It's not so much the Primaris are "new".  It's that they're simply not from within the echo chamber.

 

The Abolishers would take in the Primaris because the Primarch said so.  They'd look forward to "converting" them.

 

The Primaris won't dilute the Abolisher's theme, they're the foil.  You actually need something like the Primaris Greyshields, the original batch that traveled with Gulliman, who promoted mixing between Legions, to look at the Abolishers weirdly just to see how far they go to promote Uniformity.

 

Here's an example I just thought of, uniformity extends to even how the Abolishers eat.  This group of Primaris Greyshields sit down to have dinner with the Abolishers for the 1st time.  Suddenly the Abolishers take a sip of water.  And by that, I mean ALL the Abolishers in this grand hall drink AT THE SAME TIME, and all put down their cups simultaneously in a thunderous thud, echoing through the room.  And they all turn to eat AT THE SAME TIME, cut their steaks at the same time.  These Primaris think they're in some weird horror film or flash mob.  They're like, is this some sort of joke played on us because we're the new guys?  No, this is like what the Abolishers are like.

 

It's like that old joke, a guy asks a fish, "How's the water?"  The fish replies, "What water?"

 

People inside the echo chamber can't see it.  You need an outsider perspective, that's the Primaris.

 

They're not the only group like that, so just a final thought here...

 

 

+++ Arbites are incidental, not integral +++

 

 

You were thinking of incorporating Arbites, which is cool.  But it doesn't necessarily have to be core.

 

The reason is the Astartes are supposed to be too removed to be tied with any institution, especially the Abolishers I think.

 

You could incorporate Arbites by way of a recent incident, how the Abolishers infiltrated a renegade planetary governor's world by working with loyal Arbiters in this one instance.  And it happens these Arbites and the Abolishers really work well together, really gel.  And it goes beyond how police promote uniformity.

 

It's also because of how, just as the Arbites operate out of a set of laws, the Abolishers have their own...it's the Codex Astartes.

 

These Arbites would not know what the Codex Astartes is, it's rare for anyone to even see a Space Marine in their lifetimes, much less know what their book collection is like.  But imagine how a mortal policeman would understand these references the Abolishers make, "Oh...this Codex Astartes must be their book of laws."

 

Roboute Guilliman wrote the Codex as guidelines, which has been interpreted as rules, and it'd take an Arbites to realise the Abolishers see them as laws.

 

 

+++

 

 

Gonna leave it here.  Saw your album on the B&C frontpage the other day, too, good stuff.  I saw your white Marines, with the custom art, that was cool.

[Codex Grey]

@N1SB Thanks so much for such a thorough run-down of your thoughts! I think I agree with pretty much everything you've said, which will make it quite useful as a reference for when I actually sit down and write. I especially appreciate your language suggestions. 

 

1 hour ago, N1SB said:

The geneseed issue seemed like a rationale to explain the adoption of the Primaris, but you don't need it!

 

Not really. It was more an additional element, alongside their Codex being a divergent copy, to highlight the flaws in their beliefs. But I do like how your suggestion makes the whole work better, and the Codex being a divergent copy is enough on its own to sell the idea.

 

 

Edited February 13 by Codex Grey