On sex appeal in 40K, how much is too much, and "sexy" miniatures.

[Evil Eye]

This discussion started in the Raging Heroes copycat Catachans (Copycatachans?) thread, and at @Antarius's suggestion/encouragement I decided to start a thread on the matter to open a hopefully civil, nuanced and constructive conversation about it, as on careful thought I think such a thread has merit.

 

Rather than retread the entire chain of replies in that thread, I'll summarize and say some people weren't very impressed by the slightly pinup-y nature of the RH Catachans. Putting aside the matter of how they compare to RH's other output (which has ranged from fairly decent, see the original Preying Mantis DaemonNots, to frankly silly, such as their not-Sisters) it opened the topic of how much (if any) "sexiness" is appropriate on 40K miniatures. Note that I'm talking "models you can use for 40K" rather than strictly GW miniatures because A: lots of people use non-official miniatures and B: that's how the conversation started.

 

I should note I'm strictly talking about models that are meant as gaming pieces and intended to fit in with the tone of 40K itself. Display-only statuettes, busts etc are discounted as they're not going to be seeing tabletop action, and models that are obviously intended to be more "sexy" than normally appropriate, either purely for the sake of it or as a semi-humourous model (such as that very well sculpted and rather hilarious, if slightly disturbing, sexy Neurolictor someone made) are also disqualified from the discussion as they're explicitly not meant to accurately represent the 40K universe. See: the Maid Marines, which are extremely funny and very nice sculpts, but obviously a work of parody.

 

I'll start off completely transparently; I don't have a problem with (appropriately) attractive/sexy/whatever miniatures. I'll elabourate on that qualifier later in this post, 'cuz you know, that's the whole point of the topic, but to be brief I personally don't mind some degree of sex appeal on miniatures- I'm a big proponent of people liking what they like and avoiding the BadWrongFun trap. Frankly there's a lot of things GW puts on their models that are far more visually offensive than, say, female buttocks; tactical rocks for starters. Won't someone PLEASE cover up that OBSCENE outcropping of limestone? Get the texture paste!

 

I'll also get this out of the way right now- I do not think the "moral/ethical" arguments against sexy minis hold any water at all. There are complaints I can understand someone having against a sculpt re: its cheesecake (or beefcake I suppose) value, but the variations on "Think of the children/it's bad for society/I cannot distinguish between fiction and reality" arguments are invariably either bad faith or just plain ridiculous. Putting aside the obvious issue that the existence of boobs and butts are by far and away the least family-unfriendly part of 40K, even in the miniatures range, where characters wearing severed heads and holding still-warm internal organs are just par for the course... they're small plastic (or metal or resin) toy soldiers. They present about as much threat to the fabric of society or women's safety or whatever as a snotling with a pop gun does to Ghazghkul Thraka, if not less so (the snotling after all could catch Ghaz unawares, lulled into a false state of security by its cretinous cuteness and hilariously small size). People claiming that 40K miniatures featuring sex appeal are somehow morally wrong are usually doing so because they personally don't like it and they want to get rid of things they don't like.

 

That being said, there are definitely valid reasons I can see why someone might be opposed to a "sexy" miniature in certain contexts, which I'll go through now in...

 

PART 1: PIN-UP PITFALLS

 

I think the most obvious one is when the miniature in question is being presented as a completely honest, unironic part of the 40K universe, but looks patently ridiculous due to attempts at sex appeal overriding basic common sense, artistic principles or the constraints of the setting. In a lot of cases, these miniatures are just not very good and would attract eyerolls regardless of the setting. We'll categorize these as "crap sexy minis".

 

Raging Heroes is kinda bad for this, and a lot of their models, whilst technically well done, are sculpted in rather over-the-top poses that look more like the character is intentionally posing rather than caught in a snapshot of them doing something (fighting, giving orders, cautiously checking their surroundings, etc). They also tend to be rather overdetailed, and given rather silly outfits that would be more at home on a 90s Marvel D-list superhero than a 40K character. They're definitely not the worst models out there for this, mind you- Wargames Exclusive are notorious for doing the exact same thing (Necrons with cleavage anyone?) and to make matters worse are often pretty badly sculpted.

 

Now to be fair, these same general complaints can apply to many sculpts which aren't designed with sex appeal in mind. Simply replace "sex appeal" with "trying to look cool" and there's a LOT of models that are desperate to look badass and look a bit silly as a result. Some of GW's more recent character models are victim to the "I am posing, look at me!" problem, overdetailing is a widespread issue with digitally-sculpted models (even GW is guilty of this, though not to the extent of some sculptors) and there's plenty of cases of ideas that sound cool on paper looking frankly stupid in practice- the Lord of Skulls from the depths of 6th edition's dork age is definitely one such case (though I grant it a bit of a pass as it's meant to be a homage to the equally silly Lord of Battles from Epic- not much of a pass, but a bit of one nonetheless) and this one resin Vindicator "upgrade" I saw (Puppetswar I seem to recall) with a barrel bore so large that a single shell for the gun wouldn't fit inside the tank.

 

And then of course you have some of GW's older female sculpts, such as the now very valuable female space adventurers (incidentally wearing power-armoured assless chaps) and the less valuable Dark Eldar slaves from Asdrubael Vect's Dais of Destruction, which are just really shonky looking models.

 

In short, crap sexy minis are just crap minis that happen to try and aim for sex appeal. They often don't even achieve their goals of being especially titilating, and just look a bit tasteless or frankly daft instead.

 

The other main (valid) complaint is when a miniature is depicted in an alluring manner where it isn't actually appropriate in the context of the character/army. Such a model might be very well sculpted, artistically competent or even excellent, and possibly very appealing on its own merits. However, as a model of a fighter in Warhammer 40,000, they fail because the sex appeal is at odds with the theme of the setting, or specifically their niche within it, thus breaking the immersion and versimilitude (I hope I spelled that correctly...) of the army.

 

Now this is a bit more subjective than the miniature just looking stupid, because it really depends on personal taste for how you like your depiction of 40K. In the heyday of Rogue Trader and 2nd Edition, for example, when things were a lot brighter, more goofy and generally light-hearted, you could get away with a far more objectively silly models because they'd fit right in with the setting. An athletic yet busty female Catachan wearing a crop top would fit right in with the "Saturday morning cartoon for grown-ups" vibe of the era, and assuming it was nicely sculpted would be entirely appropriate. For the more gritty and grim tone set by 3rd and 4th edition, such a sculpt would probably need toning down a bit to look appropriate (though granted, she'd not need to be completely neutered; Private Vasquez wouldn't be out of place in Middlehammer 40K after all, and she's pretty dishy).

 

That said, this is definitely still a fair enough complaint to have with a miniature, especially in certain factions. Sisters of Battle, for example, despite having a fair bit of BDSM imagery in their look even today (the Dogmata has a Pear of Anguish on her belt. Look it up, but preferably not on work hours!) really don't benefit from "sexy" models; it goes against their theme, especially given a core part of their identity is their shame over being deceived by Goge Vandire, who it is heavily implied used them as concubines. Plus, they're regular humans wearing power armour. Going without a helmet is an acceptable bit of suspension of disbelief/rule of cool, but putting a cleavage window on Sororitas power armour would be unspeakably naff. The exception of course is the Repentia, as the whole "going into battle clad only in scriptures of penance and faith" is kinda their whole thing, and honestly I actually don't care for the sanitized plastic ones which for my tastes miss the whole point of the concept; they're not trying to look sexy, they're trying to die in glorious battle.

 

Likewise, sexy Kriegers would just be stupid. The Death Korps are supposed to have abandoned any sense of identity or individualism and are patterned directly after WW1 soldiers (mainly French "bluecoats" with some Germanic headgear). Their whole thing is they're born to fight in the most miserable, hellish battlefields imaginable, and they're so fanatically faithful that they don't give a feth about it. They're frankly horrific (being a culture conditioned to be perfect soldiers for the equivalent of the Battle of the Somme but worse and over and over again) and trying to portray them in some kind of erotic light isn't just missing the point, it's actually kinda disturbing. And not in a good way.

 

Then there's sexy Tyranids, Necrons, Orks etc, and...well, those usually fall under the category of "intentionally silly". Usually. I hope.

 

Now both of these categories of complaint with a sexy miniature are pretty valid, even if one ("the mini doesn't fit with my personal view of 40K") is a bit more subjective than the other ("the mini just looks terrible"). And both can definitely co-exist in the same miniature, to varying degrees. For example, a 3P Repentia could go with the "basically naked" interpretation, but mess it up with ridiculous proportions and a tacky pose, whilst a 3P Battle Sister could be really well sculpted, frankly a gorgeous miniature and wonderful to look at, but make no sense as a gaming piece because she's got her...sacred icons on display. Or it could be a Canoness that's got a cleavage window and backless armour and appears to have been sculpted by a bonobo on Red Bull.

 

One complaint I'm a little on the fence on is the complaint that "you just know the owner has weird feelings about his minis". I'm sure these unique individuals do exist, but to be perfectly honest I don't think this is a universal argument against any kind of sex appeal in 40K minis. A guy (or girl) could have a Wych cult army lovingly converted and painted with some rather risque content, but if it fits the theme of the army (which it absolutely would with Dark Eldar, but more on that later), is actually well-executed and the player isn't being creepy about it, I don't think it's a problem at all. In fact I'd argue the conduct of the player is probably more of a factor in whether it's acceptable or not than the minis themselves; frankly, it doesn't matter whether he or she just had an artistic vision for their army that happened to be somewhat erotic or if they paint their models with their partner as a form of foreplay, as long as it's not resulting in inappropriate decorum at the FLGS. Besides, I'd much rather play against someone with mildly saucy miniatures than someone whose entire army are covered in references to IRL socio-political leanings.

 

And now that we're done talking about where these sculpts go wrong we can talk about...

 

PART 2: MMMM, DELICIOUS CHEESECAKE

 

(AKA, sexy minis done right)

 

Just as there are some armies that really, really don't benefit from sex appeal, there are some that absolutely do. The most obvious one, to me at least, is the Dark Eldar, Wych cults especially. They're essentially equal parts gladiators, warriors and performance artists, whose every movement is intended to be as lethal and spectacular to behold as possible. And given the ancestry of the Dark Eldar (the pleasure cults of the ancient Eldar) it makes perfect sense that they'd want to add a sensual element to their performances. In fact I'm pretty sure it's more or less canon, to say nothing of the minis; the 3E Wyches were half armoured, half naked, and the current plastics are pretty skimpy with lots of cut-outs in their outfits. Lelith Hesperax embodies this, being a major celebrity in Commoragh renowned for her sensational performances of violence, all whilst wearing a sports bra and a thong (at least, until the recent plastic model decided to give her trousers for some reason, boooo). If anything, the current range of miniatures is actually too tame compared to the fluff, and a Wych cult army that played up that angle would be perfectly on-theme.

 

Slaanesh is another obvious one; the god of excess, deviance and self-gratification in all its forms was basically written for it, after all. Granted, Slaaneshi models that do focus on the physical pleasure angle should blend the appealing elements with horrific ones (especially daemons; so many Daemonette proxies are just generic succubi) but I do feel an ideal Slaanesh model would hold a perfect balance between attractive and repulsive. The tragically OOP FW Keeper of Secrets is IMO the best Slaanesh model ever made (though I do like the plastic one) as it perfectly blends an incredibly shapely female body with utterly grotesque elements like the eye-nipples, self-mutilation, clawed feet etc.

 

I also feel a good opportunity for a more "sexual horror" theme (though veering more towards horror) would actually be Nurgle of all gods. Being the god of death and decay but also life and rebirth, you could possibly have some truly terrifying models themed around a twisted form of fertility.

 

Genestealer Cults are another candidate for both more conventionally appealing miniatures (not every cult will be started on a mining world, after all; a backwater agri-world might suddenly find itself under the sway of suspiciously lilac-skinned hippies, for instance) and also a more "I'm not sure how to feel about this" angle- given how cults actually form and gain new members it can't be terribly PG rated...

 

Aside from the actual miniatures themselves, pin-up "nose art" style decals (or freehand if you're brave) on Guard vehicles would be very fitting. And of course as far as Necromunda goes, there'd be very little trouble finding a justification for it; even aside from House Escher, it's the gakkiest and most lawless hive world in the galaxy, there's bound to be some, ahem, spicy activity and interesting fashion choices in there.

 

On a more general note, I don't think even 40K, grim and dark as it is, should be (or historically has been) free of any erotic appeal. Fundamentally, 40K started as an excuse for the creators to combine all the things they liked from other sci-fi works into one big melting pot of cool stuff, and a lot of those things- being classic sci-fi and fantasy- definitely had a sensual element to them. Granted, in terms of artwork and miniatures, WHFB leant harder into this than 40K ever did, but regardless it's definitely a part of 40K's creative DNA, which is no bad thing. At the end of the day, people like looking at attractive things, including other people (and depictions thereof) and there's nothing inherently wrong with any art form using sexuality as a creative element, be it mere window-dressing or as part of more complex themes. All within reason, of course, but that goes for any creative work's appeal-factors.

 

Finally, at the risk of repeating myself, I don't think liking, painting and playing with sexy miniatures is a bad thing at all in and of itself, assuming not taken to excess. There's a difference between fielding a squad of Juan Diaz Daemonettes as part of a Chaos army and greenstuffing massive flopping schlongs onto the groins of your Chaos Space Marines after all.

 

IN CONCLUSION:

 

To summarize, in my personal opinion:

 

>A lot of crap sexy minis are just crap minis and the fact they're aiming for sexiness isn't the main problem (especially as a lot of them miss the mark at even being sexy)

>Some factions absolutely don't benefit from having sexy minis in their ranks, whilst others are actually enhanced by them to some degree

>Execution is everything

>Simple sex appeal can be combined with other thematic elements to produce genuinely powerful end results

>Just because someone enjoys attractive miniatures doesn't mean they're some kind of creeper, and as long as they're not being weird in the middle of a game, who cares?

>Sensuality and eroticism has been a part of sci-fi and fantasy for as long as it's been a thing, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that

>It is possible to have too much of a good thing

>Lelith Hesperax needs to have words with her wardrobe department

 

But that's just my take on it anyway.

Anyway, discuss. Do you agree? Are there any more risque miniatures (GW or otherwise) you especially like or dislike? Do you think GW should be maybe a bit more daring with their output? Did I make this post too long? Was it good for you too?

 

...OK, I'll get my coat.

[Bung]

I wrote it in the OG Thread and wrote it Here again.

For me the Raging Heroes Miniatures evoke the Feeling If cheesy 80s Fantasy / Sci Fi Movies, like Conan the Barbarian or Prnicess Leia in the Slave Outfit.

 

Its a bit nostalgia and die people that dont take the Game as it is. A Game with Dark Humor (at least in earlier Editions) based on DnD and other Fantasy tropes.

 

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

All of my actual thoughts on this topic are in the other thread, sparse as they are, but I can't help adding that there is a guy at my LGS who plays Slaanesh Daemons. He converted all of his daemonettes out of 3rd party goat men minis and did them up as slave boys in loincloths and such, then made all his bigger Daemon leaders these mixed up monstrocities of daemon and human parts. Bits of Sisters of Battle and so on. He loves making the joke when he puts them on the table of 'What? We're just a reflection of what You want...'

 

[Mazer Rackham]

The gold standard to satisfy the argument to me, is, and always has been, Juan Diaz's Daemonette's sculpts which are long OOP.

Edited February 6 by Mazer Rackham

[Magos Takatus]

This is an interesting subject to discuss, and I'm not entirely sure what my stance is on this. I'm not a prudish person by any means and don't mind adult content, but so many models I see just make me roll my eyes. I think this falls into you pin-up pitfalls section. However, I'm not opposed to sexual themes in some models. I much prefer the sexy but alien look of the Juan Diaz daemonettes to the more grotesque-looking and modestly dreessed models we see on the shelves today. I also think the Artel W model that resembles a Drukhari Archon is a great model, with it's selection of male or female slaves is an exceptionally well-executed set of models. I suppose it does indeed fit the army thematically which might be why I find it less egregious.

 

I don't mind some humorous pinup style minis but I think most of them are executed poorly. I would feel a bit weird about the prospect of owning overtly sexual models personally but seeing them online or in the wild doesn't bother me. The most risque model I've ever painted up was Drycha Hamadreth, and she's not overtly sexualized. Perhaps I need to try harder? 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

It becomes cringey when the proportions get ridiculous, and I’m going to think anyone with models like that is a creep, likely a ‘nice guy’

[DemonGSides]

People should enjoy their kinks in the sanctity of their own home with willing participants instead of dragging their weird baggage out into the public sphere.

I see people with 'sexy' models about the same as I see the weird MTG player with hentai girls on his playmat and sleeves.  You're allowed to like what you want to like, but keep it to yourself like the rest of us do.

 

Do what you want.  But keep your fetishes to yourself.  Just seems polite.

[TheMawr]

Its very subjective.

See I consider the diaz daemonettes the prime example of "sexy for sexyness sake pinup approach" especially on the previously established concept of what daemonettes are supposed to be, the other iterations hit the Uncanny valley spot better, albeit miss the spot on dynamism and litheness. 

But by definition Daemonettes are not supposed to be sexy or attractive.. thats the "in universe effect" they give to victims... and miniatures do not represent the delusion/illusion but the reality ( case in point : flesheater courts dont look like bretonnic knights and eldar dont look like an inidentifyable blur )

 

The miniatures were technically good sculpts, but they didnt fit what they were supposed to be... imho

[Scribe]

Diaznettes, forever.

[phandaal]

We can all point to at least one case of extreme weirdos using models that do not show a single square millimeter of extra skin, so I do not believe we can paint with a broad brush just by looking at someone's models.

 

For me, the max I would use would be something along the lines of the old Repentia or Witch Elves. The old Daemonettes are pushing it for me, but I might use them in an army where they are not the only units.

 

If someone wants to use models that look like goofy 80s characters or Metal Slug protagonists (like these Catachans), then sure have at it. I would not have any issue with those kinds of models across the table from me. If someone brought legit "this is basically prawn" models, then I would decline another game, but I have never seen anyone in real life actually attempting to use models like that.

[Tawnis]

15 minutes ago, TheMawr said:

Its very subjective.

See I consider the diaz daemonettes the prime example of "sexy for sexyness sake pinup approach" especially on the previously established concept of what daemonettes are supposed to be, the other iterations hit the Uncanny valley spot better, albeit miss the spot on dynamism and litheness. 

But by definition Daemonettes are not supposed to be sexy or attractive.. thats the "in universe effect" they give to victims... and miniatures do not represent the delusion/illusion but the reality ( case in point : flesheater courts dont look like bretonnic knights and eldar dont look like an inidentifyable blur )

 

The miniatures were technically good sculpts, but they didnt fit what they were supposed to be... imho

I see where you're coming from, and it is very subjective. I do agree with you on a technical level with the lore bit. However, I remember seeing those models for the first time back in the day, and I instantly knew what they were and what their deal was. Yeah the specific details of the how in the lore were lost to me because I haven't read that yet, but the newer ones that are just full repulsive, while more true to what they are, just don't feel like the correct expression of the unit is to me. IMHO. 

As for me in general, I'm of the subjective mind that if I can see it happening in universe, it doesn't' bother me. Otherwise it feels weird.  For example, the "sexiest" model I own is probably the Kroot Shaper from WGE, it doesn't show anything, but it's got a fairly ample wrapped chest. While Kroot don't have these naturally, if they consumed only, or mostly female prey, these could logically develop. They are also wrapped tight to not constrict her use of her bow. That's about the extend I can stretch an excuse for a "sexy" model. We had pretty slim pickings before the range refresh. 

Edited February 6 by Tawnis

[TheMawr]

2 minutes ago, phandaal said:

If someone wants to use models that look like goofy 80s characters or Metal Slug protagonists (like these Catachans)

 

But that is catachans in a nutshell,  the gender doesnt matter, they are exactly that, difference is because most here dont find bare chested well trained-extremely ( But attractive shaped)   muscular  men sensual doesnt change its the exact same thing as those female variants. 

[phandaal]

46 minutes ago, TheMawr said:

 

But that is catachans in a nutshell,  the gender doesnt matter, they are exactly that, difference is because most here dont find bare chested well trained-extremely ( But attractive shaped)   muscular  men sensual doesnt change its the exact same thing as those female variants. 

 

Yeah, male Catachans are straight up 80s action heroes. There is a reason why people always make the crew from Predator as Catachans.

Edited February 6 by phandaal
concise-inated

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

35 minutes ago, TheMawr said:

 

But that is catachans in a nutshell,  the gender doesnt matter, they are exactly that, difference is because most here dont find bare chested well trained-extremely ( But attractive shaped)   muscular  men sensual doesnt change its the exact same thing as those female variants. 

Except it is different if the bewbies are ridiculous sized and shaped to blatantly be implants if they were on a real woman.

 

theres also the whole societal norms, whether you like them or not.

Edited February 6 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Norman Paperman]

Well this an interesting thread to appear in the queue. 
 

Pinup style minis seem like the sort of weird thing you do at home, (especially if you’re making YouTube content). These can range between comically sexual on the one end and what most of us would agree is traditionally “fertile” feminine beauty on the other. The gonzo stuff is for a laugh, the other could probably be a showpiece. These are way less acceptable in the context of in-person, I would immediately negatively judge anybody who brought out an army of big-tiddy goth girls as Sisters Proxies. 
 

Whether it fits or not in Warhammer 40K will depend entirely on the army and mini in question. It’s not at all outrageous to have sexy minis because there are lots of women (and men) who like to look and feel sexy. Minis usually try to capture a person/creature during an interesting moment, so it’s reasonable that a woman character might be captured in still of a particularly alluring moment. But this of course must fit within the army. A Sister of Battle is fanatically devoted to the emperor, she’s almost certainly not going to be focused on sex appeal while fighting xenos scum. A single sexy guardsman might make sense, if the guard has women, some of them will be sexy, but a unit of big tiddy amazons doesn’t. It might be hilarious to do a snu snu ogryn proxy, but that’s stretching the “40K” pretty thin. 
 

This is all fun and art, and the rules are made to be broken. But because this is sex and sex appeal, we’re all going to be judging each other pretty harshly even if we pretend we aren’t. I tend to think that in public, you should lean towards being respectful of others sensibilities, and that includes the prudes, and at home you can do whatever the heck you want. 

[Wormwoods]

As with a lot of things, I think it's about balance. Vae Victis does a line of 'Bae Victis' minis alongside their other proxies and sculpts, which are meant to be pinup versions, but they also just... Do a bunch of models of women in the same general style and level of exaggeration as the men. Yes, they have the sexy landsknecht with her top off, but also a whole unit of non-cheesecake landsknecht if you want the Greatswords in your Old World army to be mixed.

 

If a creator or company is ONLY willing to make models of women that are pinups, but happy to make grungy, grounded men, I'm gonna side-eye that. If they're capable of doing a decent femme face on a model, why not throw some in with the bald, screaming men? 

[Aarik]

1 hour ago, DemonGSides said:

People should enjoy their kinks in the sanctity of their own home with willing participants instead of dragging their weird baggage out into the public sphere.

I see people with 'sexy' models about the same as I see the weird MTG player with hentai girls on his playmat and sleeves.  You're allowed to like what you want to like, but keep it to yourself like the rest of us do.

 

Do what you want.  But keep your fetishes to yourself.  Just seems polite.

 

This is exactly how I feel about the issue.  I'm not against it from a puritanical perspective or anything, I just personally think that the over-the-top cheesecake stuff is super cringey.  No offense intended to those who feel differently though.  And looking at it from the sort of 80s scifi perspective is something I hadn't thought of before.  

[grailkeeper]

Sexy minis are cringe, although I havent come across them much in real life.  

 

A lot of the 40k comics on reddit are similarly cringe. They cover everything from "What if Tau had big tits" to "What if Primarchs had big tits".  They dont do the warhammer fan stereotype of being a virgin much good. 

[Special Officer Doofy]

Well if someone knows how to make plague marines sexy I'm all ears.

 

But really, I don't care. Pretty sure I'd have a good laugh if my opponent had an all female catachan army that looked like some of the models from the other thread. The only thing I have seen in person that is remotely even related to that was an adepta sororitas army that had head swaps to prettier almost anime like heads. I honestly thought they looked better, a lot of adepta sororitas faces are rough. Their just toys.

 

Plus, it's not like the female catachans from the other thread could be fielded at GW official stuff right? I thought the models have to be a certain % GW or something? I don't think it would be an issue any of us would really run into.

 

Sometimes it seems to be a double standard. Microsoft urges developers not to create female characters with “exaggerated body proportions” on their official site to support game devs. My wife laughed when she read that and said "but it's totally okay to have all the dudes look like Brad Pitt, be 6ft+ and all have 6 packs". That's equally unrealistic. I served in the US army for 4 years, never once saw an active duty service member the size of Arnold from the first predator movie, yet all the male catachans are unrealisticly jacked and huge. It's why in the 2010 predators movie the director talked about using a smaller Adrian Brody as the lead, because actual soldiers are not steroid using body builders. Look up pictures of Jesse Ventura while in service. He was half his size from when he was in the Predator movie. Male catachans already kind of look cringe to me if I'm being honest. Again, they're just toys.

Edited February 7 by Special Officer Doofy
They're not their

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

59 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

Well if someone knows how to make plague marines sexy I'm all ears.

 

But really, I don't care. Pretty sure I'd have a good laugh if my opponent had an all female catachan army that looked like some of the models from the other thread. The only thing I have seen in person that is remotely even related to that was an adepta sororitas army that had head swaps to prettier almost anime like heads. I honestly thought they looked better, a lot of adepta sororitas faces are rough. Their just toys.

 

Plus, it's not like the female catachans from the other thread could be fielded at GW official stuff right? I thought the models have to be a certain % GW or something? I don't think it would be an issue any of us would really run into.

 

Sometimes it seems to be a double standard. Microsoft urges developers not to create female characters with “exaggerated body proportions” on their official site to support game devs. My wife laughed when she read that and said "but it's totally okay to have all the dudes look like Brad Pitt, be 6ft+ and all have 6 packs". That's equally unrealistic. I served in the US army for 4 years, never once saw an active duty service member the size of Arnold from the first predator movie, yet all the male catachans are unrealisticly jacked and huge. It's why in the 2010 predators movie the director talked about using a smaller Adrian Brody as the lead, because actual soldiers are not steroid using body builders. Look up pictures of Jesse Ventura while in service. He was half his size from when he was in the Predator movie. Male catachans already kind of look cringe to me if I'm being honest. Again, their just toys.

I’m not saying they’re super common, but I’ve known/ seen plenty of super buff dudes in every branch but the chair force.

 

tall and ripped, is only slightly unrealistic, compared to many female representations where often they’re biologically impossible because they couldn’t fit all their organs into their bodies lol.

 

you want a big chest and a 6 pack? 
Work out lift weights, then cut your calorie intake to 1000 calories a day for a few weeks. Not at all unrealistic.

 

the big difference is, if you want to be ‘ripped’ you can make that happen without surgery. A woman cannot increase her breast size without surgery.

Edited February 7 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Special Officer Doofy]

54 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

I’m not saying they’re super common, but I’ve known/ seen plenty of super buff dudes in every branch but the chair force.

 

tall and ripped, is only slightly unrealistic, compared to many female representations where often they’re biologically impossible because they couldn’t fit all their organs into their bodies lol.

 

you want a big chest and a 6 pack? 
Work out lift weights, then cut your calorie intake to 1000 calories a day for a few weeks. Not at all unrealistic.

 

the big difference is, if you want to be ‘ripped’ you can make that happen without surgery. A woman cannot increase her breast size without surgery.

 

I don't know, by super buff do you mean actual Arnold size from predator or just more buff than normal? A quick look at catachan forearms look like they are all thicker than their necks, even at the wrists, which doesn't naturally occur in humans without hormone treatments, steroids, implants or a genetic mutation. That doesn't seem natural. My wife is 5'3", barely 110 pounds with a size 0 waist and D cups sometime after she had our child. Never rooted around inside her guts but I think she has all her organs while having a slender feminine figure.

 

Also only taking in 1,000 calories while excessively working out will actually degrade your muscles after burning fat, that's not enough caloric energy for the proteins to help grow the muscles after stretching and tearing compared to the energy your body is using. It will also slow down your metabolism. Again after 4 years and 2 tours in the middle east, never saw an Arnold size servicemen in person in any branch. They wouldn't last in the field. On top of the massive calories and steorids they consume, they also usually take weight cutting drugs such as clenbuterol which cause massive cramping and other side effects which means even more supplements to combat that.

 

Im not saying I'm a fan of the models and that I would buy them. Just that it doesn't bother me to see them. It's just toys. For everytime I see a cartoony unrealistic girl with a toothpick waist and big chest in a video game I see a cartoony huge dude with a giant 5 foot wide chest with tiny legs. They aren't real. But anymore of this back and forth is just going to get off topic like last time. We will never agree, so agree to disagree I guess.

[TheNicronomicon]

Let me start by saying I want to distinguish between minis-you-use-at-home and stuff you’d take to a store or anywhere people don’t know you. 
 

At one’s home…who cares? It’s up to you and the folks you invite over. I personally might judge or have an opinion, but if it’s your home, it’s your rules. Not worth worrying about. 
 

Now, in public…

 

My personal feeling is that the hobby space should be welcoming to all. Even if I get a kick out of a cheesecake St Celestine or aelluring Aeldari or whatever doesn’t mean the next person to see it will enjoy it the same way. Is it worth it, to me, to potentially have to put something like that down on the table in front of a kid or someone who’s trying to escape their day-to-day reality of being sexualized by strangers? To me, it’s not worth it. My partner and my friends know the kind of man I am and if I had Sexzyy Jain Zair on the table they’d probably laugh. To someone who doesn’t know me…is that the impression I want to make? So I wanna be the guy that puts my sense of humor over someone else’s comfort? (I’m assuming they’re comfortable with the normal grisly grimdark nonsense, because why else would you be playing 40K?)

 

yeah, this is a sensitive subject and one that is super subjective. But in my experience, especially when you’re sharing a public space, I do think it’s important to be respectful of others who may be sharing that space. Simple human consideration and respect. (Until Ragnar and his Blood Claws reach your back line. Nothing very respectful family-friendly will be happening there, I’m afraid.) Perhaps it’s the schoolteacher in me, but I would prefer to err on the side of being as welcoming as possible. 
 

(To add some more perspective, more than a few of my female friends reach for the chain mail bikini minis when we sit down to play. Shoot, one of my gaming group was a pro cosplayer, and an ex literally owned a chainmail bikini top.  But again those games were at my home, not in a store or at a tournament.)

 

Ive been in and around tabletop games since the 80s. I’ve been through all the ups and downs and ins and outs regarding how the wider culture views us. Personally I am delighted that my female friends acquaintances and coworkers are *interested* in these things now! More people to play with, more fun to be had! So I suppose I weigh that against whatever fun there is to be had in putting a titillating Thallax cohort on the table. 

 

TL; DR: be kind & considerate and use your best judgement. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

 

I don't know, by super buff do you mean actual Arnold size from predator or just more buff than normal? A quick look at catachan forearms look like they are all thicker than their necks, even at the wrists, which doesn't naturally occur in humans without hormone treatments, steroids, implants or a genetic mutation. That doesn't seem natural. My wife is 5'3", barely 110 pounds with a size 0 waist and D cups sometime after she had our child. Never rooted around inside her guts but I think she has all her organs while having a slender feminine figure.

 

Also only taking in 1,000 calories while excessively working out will actually degrade your muscles after burning fat, that's not enough caloric energy for the proteins to help grow the muscles after stretching and tearing compared to the energy your body is using. It will also slow down your metabolism. Again after 4 years and 2 tours in the middle east, never saw an Arnold size servicemen in person in any branch. They wouldn't last in the field. On top of the massive calories and steorids they consume, they also usually take weight cutting drugs such as clenbuterol which cause massive cramping and other side effects which means even more supplements to combat that.

 

Im not saying I'm a fan of the models and that I would buy them. Just that it doesn't bother me to see them. It's just toys. For everytime I see a cartoony unrealistic girl with a toothpick waist and big chest in a video game I see a cartoony huge dude with a giant 5 foot wide chest with tiny legs. They aren't real. But anymore of this back and forth is just going to get off topic like last time. We will never agree, so agree to disagree I guess.

then there’s the former WH cook

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andre_Rush
 

You can literally find all sorts of buff marines, soldiers and sailors if you just do a google search.

 

It’s attainable to get massive through natural means.

 

but basing it 100% off of Arnold is a bit disingenuous since there’s also sly from Rambo, and all the rest of the predator who weren’t as big as Arnold that all inspired Catachans.

 

 

 

[Special Officer Doofy]

1 hour ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

then there’s the former WH cook

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andre_Rush
 

You can literally find all sorts of buff marines, soldiers and sailors if you just do a google search.

 

It’s attainable to get massive through natural means.

 

but basing it 100% off of Arnold is a bit disingenuous since there’s also sly from Rambo, and all the rest of the predator who weren’t as big as Arnold that all inspired Catachans.

 

 

 

 

Andre rush, who consumes 10,000 calories a day to maintain his size (which you can't do on deployment) and refuses to take steroid test to prove he's natural or even talk about it?

 

"His evasive response to steroid inquiries has fueled further speculation."

 

"Steroid use allegations rumors about Rush using steroids grew after an interview. He was asked about using steroids but didn't clearly say yes or no. This made more people wonder if his extreme fitness is natural."

 

None of the marines in that video are the size of catachans, not one has a bicep wider than their face, which sly marbo and catachans do. The only close one is the one in the thumbnail who has the arms up and flexing, which catachans have them bigger not even flexing.

 

And anyways, you googled and found the most extreme example, and one that is almost certainly not natural and can't do while on deployment. So every catachan fighter is eating 10,000 calories a day and not answering questions about steroids? But women can't be more curvy next to the fake overly muscle men?

Edited February 7 by Special Officer Doofy

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

 

Andre rush, who consumes 10,000 calories a day to maintain his size (which you can't do on deployment) and refuses to take steroid test to prove he's natural or even talk about it?

 

"His evasive response to steroid inquiries has fueled further speculation."

 

"Steroid use allegations rumors about Rush using steroids grew after an interview. He was asked about using steroids but didn't clearly say yes or no. This made more people wonder if his extreme fitness is natural."

 

None of the marines in that video are the size of catachans, not one has a bicep wider than their face, which sly marbo and catachans do. The only close one is the one in the thumbnail who has the arms up and flexing, which catachans have them bigger not even flexing.

 

And anyways, you googled and found the most extreme example, and one that is almost certainly not natural and can't do while on deployment. So every catachan fighter is eating 10,000 calories a day and not answering questions about steroids? But women can't be more curvy next to the fake overly muscle men?

Rush has always been big even when he was active duty dude.

idk what to tell you.

also I deployed twice I drank half of or more my daily calorie needs in pop. Never tried counting calories at that time, but without actually trying I was averaging 5k a day. 10k for someone who was making an active effort to reach that wouldn’t be too hard.

Edited February 7 by Inquisitor_Lensoven