Codex Space Marines Codex: Space Marine Rumours (2nd wave and/or New Characters)

[phandaal]

10 minutes ago, ZeroWolf said:

Valrak just dropped a new rumour video saying the whispers of the warp have told him that 11th edition is indeed next year and all speculation about an earlier one was wrong.

 

Wonder what this means for Codexes that are not yet available. Are we going to see another World Eaters situation or are the books going to be useful in 11th edition?

[DemonGSides]

2 hours ago, Robbienw said:

I think they realised they were leaving money on the table sidelining/phasing out iconic classic units.  I acknowledge people like it, but Gravis armour was never going to be impactful and popular enough to replace Terminators.  Same with the likes of the Impulsor and Repulsor, very cool but no replacement for the legendary Rhino and Land Raider.

 

It could've, if they had just ripped the band-aid off and MADE people make the switch.

The lack of spine with any decision was as just as impactful as anything else.  Whether you like the Primaris or not, it's been the constant back and forth on what they want from it that has been the most annoying.

1 minute ago, phandaal said:

 

Wonder what this means for Codexes that are not yet available. Are we going to see another World Eaters situation or are the books going to be useful in 11th edition?

It'll be another small update edition where your codexes work in the new edition, just a clean-up and probably a shake-up on terrain rules because GW can't stand letting their fanbase get used to a rule set.

[Emperor Ming]

2 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

Wonder what this means for Codexes that are not yet available. Are we going to see another World Eaters situation or are the books going to be useful in 11th edition?

My guess is that next edition will be a continuation, so new rulebook, but codex's will be fine (of course there will still be new ones and faqs galore probably)

 

Then 12th will be a reset, making it a 3 year and 6 year cycle

 

It certainly sounds like something gw would do when i say it like that

 

 

[Tastyfish]

Next year is 40 years of 40K, so a new launch box and starter sets would make sense in that regard - even if it isn't an entirely new edition ruleswise (though wasn't there some hints about more granular points returning in a Warhammer+ video) 

[ZeroWolf]

3 minutes ago, Tastyfish said:

Next year is 40 years of 40K, so a new launch box and starter sets would make sense in that regard - even if it isn't an entirely new edition ruleswise (though wasn't there some hints about more granular points returning in a Warhammer+ video) 

You're a year off there I'm afraid  40k launched in 1987. I get the feeling that GW don't care that much at linking editions to anniversaries. They'd still sell you miniatures all the same.

[Robbienw]

45 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

 

It could've, if they had just ripped the band-aid off and MADE people make the switch.

 

No, you cant make people make the switch, it doesn't work like that.  People are going to continue liking classic designs even if you take them away. Gravis units don't have the same weight of history and iconic design to ever eclipse Terminators for example.  But they can live alongside them.

[Castellan Wulfrik]

18 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

 

It could've, if they had just ripped the band-aid off and MADE people make the switch.

The lack of spine with any decision was as just as impactful as anything else.  Whether you like the Primaris or not, it's been the constant back and forth on what they want from it that has been the most annoying.

It'll be another small update edition where your codexes work in the new edition, just a clean-up and probably a shake-up on terrain rules because GW can't stand letting their fanbase get used to a rule set.

It's a bit silly to believe GW could have made anyone other than the minority of competitive players switch to models they just don't like, they'll just pick different units and continue to ignore the ones they don't like the look of; especially in an army with as much unit bloat as Space Marines. You don't have to include Terminators or Gravis in an army, and it's clear which style of model more people are interested in. Why would GW commit to a less popular and as such less profitable design? They made the units and have to keep them for now but I doubt we'll see much in the way of new Gravis in the future, it just doesn't sell as well. And I don't think everyone who dislikes Primaris would agree with the back and forth being the most annoying rather than the myriad of reasons that get endlessly repeated. Trying to replace designs that had been universally popular for over two decades was just not a business decision that made any sense in the long term. You're not going to be able to convince many people that Gravis were ever going to be as popular as Terminators even if GW committed.

 

Anyway, as much I dislike edition churn at least we'll be getting some new ork models. Although what we really need is multipart boyz rather than a set of new monopose units. Stormboyz would be the unit that would be least effected by being monopose so that's what I'd like to see. 

[SvenIronhand]

For once I agree with Robbie. I'd rather have Terminators and Gravis both. 

[ZeroWolf]

44 minutes ago, Castellan Wulfrik said:

It's a bit silly to believe GW could have made anyone other than the minority of competitive players switch to models they just don't like, they'll just pick different units and continue to ignore the ones they don't like the look of; especially in an army with as much unit bloat as Space Marines. You don't have to include Terminators or Gravis in an army, and it's clear which style of model more people are interested in. Why would GW commit to a less popular and as such less profitable design? They made the units and have to keep them for now but I doubt we'll see much in the way of new Gravis in the future, it just doesn't sell as well. And I don't think everyone who dislikes Primaris would agree with the back and forth being the most annoying rather than the myriad of reasons that get endlessly repeated. Trying to replace designs that had been universally popular for over two decades was just not a business decision that made any sense in the long term. You're not going to be able to convince many people that Gravis were ever going to be as popular as Terminators even if GW committed.

 

Anyway, as much I dislike edition churn at least we'll be getting some new ork models. Although what we really need is multipart boyz rather than a set of new monopose units. Stormboyz would be the unit that would be least effected by being monopose so that's what I'd like to see. 

It made sense enough to propel sales of 40k through the roof and didn't even dent space marines popularity. This is looking at it from the GW top tier perspective however. My own is a bit more nuanced as someone who came back to the hobby just at the onset of 9th edition after last playing in 5th (Quite a surprise about learning of the existence of the three year cycle, I can tell you that), as I honestly like both, and wonder if the split would have been as bad if Mk x was solely a new armour type.

 

I often wonder if foresight was a thing, what GW should have done was introduce new armour marks gradually but instead of just getting rid of older ones, instead have upgrade sprues that consist of only older armour marks that gets added to as newer ones came out. Then, you make multipart marines completely modular, or best you can so that you can have squads be completely one type or as mixed as you want to tell the story you want.

 

Of course, I'd say that new armour marks would be once in a blue moon type deal, so like 8-10 years or whenever a mold needs replacing.

[phandaal]

48 minutes ago, Castellan Wulfrik said:

You're not going to be able to convince many people that Gravis were ever going to be as popular as Terminators even if GW committed.

 

As a Chonkmaris enjoyer who owns multiples of every non-Chapter specific Gravis unit, I agree with this 100%.

 

(In My Opinion) Gravis were supposed to be a Terminator replacement, looking at Aggressors, but some time very early in that process GW came to understand that it would never replace Terminators for most people. Terminators' design is just too iconic.

[darkhorse0607]

28 minutes ago, ZeroWolf said:

 

 

I often wonder if foresight was a thing, what GW should have done was introduce new armour marks gradually but instead of just getting rid of older ones, instead have upgrade sprues that consist of only older armour marks that gets added to as newer ones came out. Then, you make multipart marines completely modular, or best you can so that you can have squads be completely one type or as mixed as you want to tell the story you want.

 

 

 I mean, essentially that's the approach they're doing with the new Heresy kits. Because all of them are in the same poses (between the MK3 and MK6 boxes), you could switch out arms, heads, packs, etc. Realistically, if you wanted to badly enough you could swap legs with just a little bit of putty/a few cuts as well

 

That being said, I do think that GW underestimated how much people love the old armor types (in this case predominately MK7) and older vehicles.

[DemonGSides]

2 hours ago, Robbienw said:

 

No, you cant make people make the switch, it doesn't work like that.  People are going to continue liking classic designs even if you take them away. Gravis units don't have the same weight of history and iconic design to ever eclipse Terminators for example.  But they can live alongside them.

 

You're responding to something I didn't say.  If they didn't give people the option, it wouldn't matter how much you or I enjoy Terminator plate.  There was someone I was responding to, so y'know, context matters.

 

1 hour ago, Castellan Wulfrik said:

It's a bit silly to believe GW could have made anyone other than the minority of competitive players switch to models they just don't like, they'll just pick different units and continue to ignore the ones they don't like the look of; especially in an army with as much unit bloat as Space Marines. You don't have to include Terminators or Gravis in an army, and it's clear which style of model more people are interested in. Why would GW commit to a less popular and as such less profitable design? They made the units and have to keep them for now but I doubt we'll see much in the way of new Gravis in the future, it just doesn't sell as well. And I don't think everyone who dislikes Primaris would agree with the back and forth being the most annoying rather than the myriad of reasons that get endlessly repeated. Trying to replace designs that had been universally popular for over two decades was just not a business decision that made any sense in the long term. You're not going to be able to convince many people that Gravis were ever going to be as popular as Terminators even if GW committed.

 

Anyway, as much I dislike edition churn at least we'll be getting some new ork models. Although what we really need is multipart boyz rather than a set of new monopose units. Stormboyz would be the unit that would be least effected by being monopose so that's what I'd like to see. 

 

I think you've misunderstood my point.  The original poster theorized that Aggressors aren't popular because they continued to make old stuff; I think that's an incorrect logic to follow (And is wrong in it's basic premise, I think aggressors and Gravis have done quite well for themselves), and if they had just fully separated from First-Born units, they would've seen a different type of success than they currently have.  Same idea that if they had just made Primaris "True Scale" instead of a whole lore turn-over, it would've gone differently.  Personal beliefs aside, if there was no Terminator Plate at all, it wouldn't matter.  That's the discussion that WAS being had.

 

Gravis is popular enough, you just don't like it; that's fine.  Lord knows I won't be going to you for any palm readings with the future call of "Gravis is gonna go away".  Calgar literally wears Gravis armor now.  They're committed as much as anything else.  Confidence around any given unit's sales volume is always misplaced as we literally don't have any data for that.

 

Edited February 10 by DemonGSides

[Indy Techwisp]

On 2/8/2025 at 11:32 PM, Indy Techwisp said:

Also, can I please request that we do not derail this thread hard enough to get banished to the Astartes subform? Thanks.

16 hours ago, Indy Techwisp said:

Please do not take the above as an invitation to argue about Firstborn vs Primaris in this thread.

 

[Karhedron]

34 minutes ago, phandaal said:

(In My Opinion) Gravis were supposed to be a Terminator replacement, looking at Aggressors, but some time very early in that process GW came to understand that it would never replace Terminators for most people. Terminators' design is just too iconic.

 

Boltstorm Aggressors do seem suspiciously similar to the classic Terminator loadout (minus the special weapon) and even the helmet looks a bit terminator-esque. Ruleswise they have never really seemed a replacement for Terminators so I am guessing the decision was taken fairly early on to present them as an alternative rather than a direct replacement.

 

All of the first two waves of Primaris units filled niches that could not be occupied by Firstborn units, apart from Intercessors to some extent.

[Robbienw]

8 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

 

You're responding to something I didn't say.  If they didn't give people the option, it wouldn't matter how much you or I enjoy Terminator plate.  There was someone I was responding to, so y'know, context matters.

 

 

I think you are also misunderstanding what i am saying.  My point was people are still going to like the old designs if you take them away, and GW is leaving money on the table by not renewing them and/or removing them from the game.  They aren't going to start buying more Gravis just because Terminators were deleted.  Units like Terminators have historical cache that Gravis doesn't.  It might even make people less likely to buy new stuff because they are annoyed about classic items being randomly thrown out.  

 

This is not dunking on Gravis, this is just pointing out the folly of replacing something well liked with something that looks quite different and is equipped differently.

 

GW obviously agrees with this now, given the updates of classic units such as Scouts and Terminators, and strong rumours of more upcoming.

[Evil Eye]

19 minutes ago, Robbienw said:

 

I think you are also misunderstanding what i am saying.  My point was people are still going to like the old designs if you take them away, and GW is leaving money on the table by not renewing them and/or removing them from the game.  They aren't going to start buying more Gravis just because Terminators were deleted.  Units like Terminators have historical cache that Gravis doesn't.  It might even make people less likely to buy new stuff because they are annoyed about classic items being randomly thrown out.  

 

This is not dunking on Gravis, this is just pointing out the folly of replacing something well liked with something that looks quite different and is equipped differently.

 

GW obviously agrees with this now, given the updates of classic units such as Scouts and Terminators, and strong rumours of more upcoming.

You've hit the nail on the head. I've said it before and I'll say it again, they could have introduced new units and designs as part of a general upscaling of the Marine line without phasing out OG Marines. This isn't me going on a tirade against Primaris or saying they shouldn't have made anything new ever either. If Mk. X had been one armour mark mixed in with the traditonal mix of Mk.7, Mk.6 and a few sprinklings of Mk.8 that power armoured Marines usually got, nobody would have minded (or at least the reaction would have been far less bilious). The fluff could have been as simple as this:

 

"Bellisarius Cawl discovered a cache of prototypes of new power armour marks and other wargear technology buried under the crust of Tesla Prime, long thought stripped of all value by the ravages of the Tyranids. With the scant remaining technical information and surviving parts being used as the basis for Mk. X Tacticus armour, Astartes began to be equipped with new, more terrible tools of vengeance against Abaddon's hordes, though the limited production capacity and suspicions of tech-heresy meaning it has been slow to gain acceptance amongst the Angels of Death."

 

Heck, you could have had the justification for mostly having totally new units in Dark Imperium being that Cawl is using this particular strike force as field testers/guinea pigs for his recovered and repaired technology. Gives a good springboard for storytelling AND sells the new stuff well!

[phandaal]

54 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

Boltstorm Aggressors do seem suspiciously similar to the classic Terminator loadout (minus the special weapon) and even the helmet looks a bit terminator-esque. Ruleswise they have never really seemed a replacement for Terminators so I am guessing the decision was taken fairly early on to present them as an alternative rather than a direct replacement.

 

All of the first two waves of Primaris units filled niches that could not be occupied by Firstborn units, apart from Intercessors to some extent.

 

I am glad they chose to keep them separate, if that is indeed what happened. Gravis are my favorite Primaris, and my Dark Angels 1st Company can stay as well. Works out great for me. 

[jaxom]

If it’s solely a set of character releases then I think we’ll just get pdfs on WarCom.

[Northern Walker]

5 hours ago, ZeroWolf said:

Valrak just dropped a new rumour video saying the whispers of the warp have told him that 11th edition is indeed next year and all speculation about an earlier one was wrong. He also said about the possibility that some of the new Space Marine units (most likely squad refreshes like Vanguard Veterans if you ask me). The heroes are quite likely for this year.

 

Probably going to get a year at most out of my space wolves codex when it comes out, they really need to sort this out.

[ZeroWolf]

Just now, Northern Walker said:

Probably going to get a year at most out of my space wolves codex when it comes out, they really need to sort this out.

To be fair, it could be a case where the old codex's carry over as it looks that 11th will just be an extension of 10th rather than another reboot.

[jimbo1701]

Valrak has now stated that 11th won’t be early it will be next summer as would have been predicted. He is also speculating that the speeder / pod / vanguard / outriders will be part of that release rather than before then. No mention of the characters in his post. 
 

I guess that leads to all sorts of possibilities, including:

1. The original rumours are true and all of the models due this year as wave 2. 
2. New rumours are true and all coming with marine starter wave in 11th next summer. 
3. (Most likely) some marine stuff this year, mostly characters, to chime with the roadmap, then the rest of the stuff coming next year with starter wave. 
 

 

[ThaneOfTas]

59 minutes ago, jimbo1701 said:

3. (Most likely) some marine stuff this year, mostly characters, to chime with the roadmap, then the rest of the stuff coming next year with starter wave. 

Yeah this is where my money is.

[Redcomet]

On 2/10/2025 at 5:07 AM, AlanofAngels said:

Talking about a new/re-tooled Drop Pod and mixed armor mks for the marines gives me (probably misplaced) hope that GW may some day re-tool/update the Rhino and Land Raider. God, I love those kits!!

A re tooled Land Raider upscaled 10% would be awesome

[Doctor Perils]

52 minutes ago, ThaneOfTas said:

Yeah this is where my money is.

- 10th, edition of the Terminators

- 11th, edition of the Bikers

?

[Robbienw]

I hope the assault Terminators make it out this year, really looking forward to those!