Which is the most useful on the table top

[INKS]

I have this thing where I love the 40mm base swarm guys. Nurglings, Necron Scarabs, Ripper Swarms that sort of model. Did I miss any? Which do you think is the most useful on the table top? which can you really build an army around? I am guessing the necron scarb swarms since there was a top 4 canoptk list out there not long ago.. but I am not sure on the others. The idea is the maximize how many of these you can take and still be competitive or who is the more competitive?

[skylerboodie]

Not sure if you can still use Snotling bases in 40K (eg: ammo for Shokk Attack Gun); shame if not

[INKS]

I don't think so. sadly

[Evil Eye]

Yeah, tragically snotlings got the axe a while back. Honestly it's kinda funny, historically there's only been three swarm units in the game (four if you count snotlings) and yet for a lot of the game's history they had their own dedicated unit type.

[N1SB]

I thought a long time to keep this post short.

 

 

I know exactly where you're coming from.  I did a Nurgling army in 8th ed, they manned the artillery, etc.

 

 

+++ NURGLINGS +++

 

It's no longer 8th ed, when Nurglings were considered Troops, could ObSec and stuff.

 

Now in 10th I'm seeing Nurglings used as a utility tool by other armies.  Their strength is Infiltration, in a game where Infiltration happens before anything else, for armies that are a bit slow to get going; Death Guard aren't fast unless you're doing a mechanised list, Daemons need to get into Engagement range.

 

That Infiltration strength can be a weakness precisely because Nurglings reach where their slow armies couldn't; they might be the 1st ones targeted, but lack Damage dealing, can't get support in time from their slower comrades.  10th ed is quite lethal, things get wiped out fast and Nurglings are squishier than ever.

 

They're pretty good at counter-Infiltration, when your opponent has his own Infiltration units.  Like when my parents found a good parking spot for their car, they'll tell me to stand on the space as they bring their car around.  When I got older I realised I could have been run over.  I really feel for the Nurglings.

 

Models-wise, Nurglings are the most easily accessible of the Swarms.  If you had a few extra bases, you could actually make DOUBLE the number of Nurglings; there's a group of Nurglings in the back that you can't see.  Thus, a box of Nurglings can produce SIX instead of three bases' worth.

 

For those reasons, Nurglings are a toolkit unit for other armies, the rare Infiltration units for factions that have none.

 

 

+++ CANOPTEK SCARAB SWARMS +++

 

It just so happens I'm playing Necrons this edition, one of the stronger factions.

 

You're absolutely right there's a Canoptek Detachment that can be quite strong that benfits Scarabs...as well as all other Canoptek units, and therein lies the problem.  It's not the Detachment rules per se, it's what people take in the Detachment: the Canoptek combo is 6 Wraiths + 1 Technomancer.

 

6 Wraiths + 1 Technomancer is the best go-to, bread & butter unit for ANY Necron list now.  You have a bunch of fast-moving blob of Wounds that have a built-in Invuln save, then the Technomancer gives them Feel No Pain, a lot of weak attacks but they add up.  People DO spam 3 units in their lists.

 

The Scarabs would basically be their sidekicks.  They can add some Vehicle-hitting power alongside a unit of 6 Wraiths + 1 Technomancer that's better against hordes.  It's also kinda thematic, just big metal bugs running alongside small metal bugs, shepherded by a Technomancer.

 

You know how Scarabs reduce opponent's Objective Control?  Wraiths are so good at OC it doesn't matter.

 

Here's a literal list: 3 x (6 Wraiths + 1 Technomancer) + 1 Nightbringer AND/OR Void Dragon + X Scarab Swarms.

 

In other words, you wanted a Scarab List, but you end up with a Wraiths list, like every other Necron player.

 

With the Grotmas Starshatter Arsenal, that might be a better option than the actual Canoptek Detachment.

 

 

+++ RIPPER SWARMS +++

 

Ripper Swarms actually can play a role in a Nidzilla list, might be worth considering.

 

The big Tyranid monsters are awesome, but except for the Norn Emissary, aren't good at Objective Control.  Ripper Swarms reduce the OC of enemy units.  This might be one of those themed lists that actually DO something that people don't expect, might throw them off.

 

So people see that coming, and target the Ripper Swarms 1st?  Ok, then they're ignoring the big Monster that's the real threat and he'll eat them.  If Ripper Swarms are a distraction, and the opponents are goaded by that distraction, then they might already be achieving their purpose.

 

I can actually see some shenanigans with this one.  But also, Ripper Swarms are like the hardest minis to get now.

 

 

+++ MY CURRENT CONCLUSION +++

 

So I'm speaking as someone who actually used Swarms as the core of an army in 8th, like you suggest.  That was specific with Nurglings, who were Troops back then, it was awesome, but it's not like that now.  It now comes down to the Swarms' Factions, what would go with those Swarms.

 

Nurglings have Death Guard and Daemons, they offer Infiltration, but don't really complement each other.  Scarab Swarms go with the killer combo of 6 Wraiths + 1 Technomancer, are completely overshadowed by them.  Ripper Swarms might help Nidzilla or Tyranid Warriors, they ARE a complement!

 

I'm currently thinking the following, but reserve the right to change my mind and believe that I'm wrong:

 

• Scarab Swarms would technically be most competitive...because they go with 6 Wraiths + 1 Technomancer
• Ripper Swarms running alongside Nidzilla might be the more interesting army, as they complement each other, but they're so squishy

 

I have failed.  In trying to answer which Swarms are best, I defaulted to which Factions are best.  I could've just told you Necron Scarabs are best because Necrons as a whole are so good right now.  That in itself might be an answer, I don't think I can build an army around Swarms any more.

 

But back in 8th, when I could with Nurglings, it was freakin' sweet!

[INKS]

3 hours ago, N1SB said:

I thought a long time to keep this post short.

 

 

I know exactly where you're coming from.  I did a Nurgling army in 8th ed, they manned the artillery, etc.

 

 

+++ NURGLINGS +++

 

It's no longer 8th ed, when Nurglings were considered Troops, could ObSec and stuff.

 

Now in 10th I'm seeing Nurglings used as a utility tool by other armies.  Their strength is Infiltration, in a game where Infiltration happens before anything else, for armies that are a bit slow to get going; Death Guard aren't fast unless you're doing a mechanised list, Daemons need to get into Engagement range.

 

That Infiltration strength can be a weakness precisely because Nurglings reach where their slow armies couldn't; they might be the 1st ones targeted, but lack Damage dealing, can't get support in time from their slower comrades.  10th ed is quite lethal, things get wiped out fast and Nurglings are squishier than ever.

 

They're pretty good at counter-Infiltration, when your opponent has his own Infiltration units.  Like when my parents found a good parking spot for their car, they'll tell me to stand on the space as they bring their car around.  When I got older I realised I could have been run over.  I really feel for the Nurglings.

 

Models-wise, Nurglings are the most easily accessible of the Swarms.  If you had a few extra bases, you could actually make DOUBLE the number of Nurglings; there's a group of Nurglings in the back that you can't see.  Thus, a box of Nurglings can produce SIX instead of three bases' worth.

 

For those reasons, Nurglings are a toolkit unit for other armies, the rare Infiltration units for factions that have none.

 

 

+++ CANOPTEK SCARAB SWARMS +++

 

It just so happens I'm playing Necrons this edition, one of the stronger factions.

 

You're absolutely right there's a Canoptek Detachment that can be quite strong that benfits Scarabs...as well as all other Canoptek units, and therein lies the problem.  It's not the Detachment rules per se, it's what people take in the Detachment: the Canoptek combo is 6 Wraiths + 1 Technomancer.

 

6 Wraiths + 1 Technomancer is the best go-to, bread & butter unit for ANY Necron list now.  You have a bunch of fast-moving blob of Wounds that have a built-in Invuln save, then the Technomancer gives them Feel No Pain, a lot of weak attacks but they add up.  People DO spam 3 units in their lists.

 

The Scarabs would basically be their sidekicks.  They can add some Vehicle-hitting power alongside a unit of 6 Wraiths + 1 Technomancer that's better against hordes.  It's also kinda thematic, just big metal bugs running alongside small metal bugs, shepherded by a Technomancer.

 

You know how Scarabs reduce opponent's Objective Control?  Wraiths are so good at OC it doesn't matter.

 

Here's a literal list: 3 x (6 Wraiths + 1 Technomancer) + 1 Nightbringer AND/OR Void Dragon + X Scarab Swarms.

 

In other words, you wanted a Scarab List, but you end up with a Wraiths list, like every other Necron player.

 

With the Grotmas Starshatter Arsenal, that might be a better option than the actual Canoptek Detachment.

 

 

+++ RIPPER SWARMS +++

 

Ripper Swarms actually can play a role in a Nidzilla list, might be worth considering.

 

The big Tyranid monsters are awesome, but except for the Norn Emissary, aren't good at Objective Control.  Ripper Swarms reduce the OC of enemy units.  This might be one of those themed lists that actually DO something that people don't expect, might throw them off.

 

So people see that coming, and target the Ripper Swarms 1st?  Ok, then they're ignoring the big Monster that's the real threat and he'll eat them.  If Ripper Swarms are a distraction, and the opponents are goaded by that distraction, then they might already be achieving their purpose.

 

I can actually see some shenanigans with this one.  But also, Ripper Swarms are like the hardest minis to get now.

 

 

+++ MY CURRENT CONCLUSION +++

 

So I'm speaking as someone who actually used Swarms as the core of an army in 8th, like you suggest.  That was specific with Nurglings, who were Troops back then, it was awesome, but it's not like that now.  It now comes down to the Swarms' Factions, what would go with those Swarms.

 

Nurglings have Death Guard and Daemons, they offer Infiltration, but don't really complement each other.  Scarab Swarms go with the killer combo of 6 Wraiths + 1 Technomancer, are completely overshadowed by them.  Ripper Swarms might help Nidzilla or Tyranid Warriors, they ARE a complement!

 

I'm currently thinking the following, but reserve the right to change my mind and believe that I'm wrong:

 

• Scarab Swarms would technically be most competitive...because they go with 6 Wraiths + 1 Technomancer
• Ripper Swarms running alongside Nidzilla might be the more interesting army, as they complement each other, but they're so squishy

 

I have failed.  In trying to answer which Swarms are best, I defaulted to which Factions are best.  I could've just told you Necron Scarabs are best because Necrons as a whole are so good right now.  That in itself might be an answer, I don't think I can build an army around Swarms any more.

 

But back in 8th, when I could with Nurglings, it was freakin' sweet!

1st: Thank you for taking the time to give this a lot of thought. I have been flopping back and forth now for some time on Nids and Necrons oddly enough.

I had come up with a Necron list the other night that had 2 block of wraiths plus technomancers, some doomstalkers, some spyders and tons of scarbs. It's an ok list I think. No Ctan... Either way I have been thinking about it. I would likely Ebay the scarbs or something to get so many. Otherwise I'll own 10 billion warriors that I am not really using right now. Not the end of the world mind you, but also maybe just easier to ebay them.

 

Painting wise I could just slap on some metal and call it a day. I've done this in the past when I've ownd necrons in other editions. But I was thinking of a black and bone color... might work well but it's more painting work.

 

Nids. I like big bugs and I can not lie. I had not really thought about Rippers but maybe I can fit them in somewhere? I've not really seen anyone using them othe than the odd one here and there and I think they are only taking 1 - because they had points left over. lol  I do have crusher list with 3 norns. So I'll have to take a look and see what maybe can be done or how well it will work. Painting wise, I have a pretty good idea on how I want them to look and paint them. It is far more complicated than Necrons... but - The models are bigger and so kinda easier to paint overall.

 

It really is a toss up right now...

[Mysterion]

N1SB really put the work in so anything I add will seem redundant. I'm not a competitive player at all, I play theme and narrative but that being said, I always take as many Scarabs that my list will allow simply because they are a pest on the table, they are fun to self-destruct and for me, they've claimed some pretty big scalps in the past...

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

Depends what you are going for and what edition you choose to play.

 

Rippers:

They were able to eat and thus destroy organic terrain like forests.

 

Nurglings:

They are daemons and come with all those perks and disadvantages which daemons have.

 

Scarabs:

They can fly. If you have lots of multilevel terrain then they become increasingly more powerful than their counterparts.

[N1SB]

I heard about the following at our Warhammer Store this weekend, was tracking the info down.  Somebody won a tournament with a "Nurgling list":

 

 

 

But the TL;DR is, this "Nurgling List" was a 2000 pts Death Guard list that took Nurgling allies, but was a pretty typical Death Guard list that took Mortarion, Typhus and 60 Poxwalkers...then even more Nurglings.  It used to be you can oversaturate with Monsters or Vehicles, like throw more of those at an opponent than he has Heavy Weapons to deal with, but in this age of Devastating Weapons and Mortal Wounds galore, people might have more problems with this horde approach.

 

 

My only real criticism of this approach is, if I was going to do that...I'd probably do the 6 Wraiths + 1 Technomancer instead.  It's not just Wounds but "Effective Wounds".  Like when you have something with a 4+ Invuln Save, you basically double-up on Wounds?  And you get a FNP, plus Wraiths can actually do some Damage.

 

Otherwise I totally get this, BUT I also know this is probably not what Brother Inks is looking for, because it's a Death Guard list rather than a Nurglings one.

[TheNicronomicon]

Rippers are GREAT in units of 2 in Assimilation Swarm lists. Hide a ripper behind a back line Tyrannofex if you really want to see hate in your opponent’s eyes. 
(Assuming you can hit the Fex, the rippers can just heal it back. And if you get hit REALLY hard, you can use the 1/game ability to just ignore the damage. Horrible! Delightful!)

You can have them follow a Zoanthrope unit too, if you don’t want to assign a Psychophage to them. Basically any unit that doesn’t need another monster’s aura to be successful can have a couple rippers tagging along for free healing. They’re cheap enough that you can use them as a supplement too—the Psychophage heal the Warriors/Tyrant Guard/etc. while the rippers heal the Psychophage. 

[ZeroWolf]

7 minutes ago, TheNicronomicon said:

Rippers are GREAT in units of 2 in Assimilation Swarm lists. Hide a ripper behind a back line Tyrannofex if you really want to see hate in your opponent’s eyes. 
(Assuming you can hit the Fex, the rippers can just heal it back. And if you get hit REALLY hard, you can use the 1/game ability to just ignore the damage. Horrible! Delightful!)

You can have them follow a Zoanthrope unit too, if you don’t want to assign a Psychophage to them. Basically any unit that doesn’t need another monster’s aura to be successful can have a couple rippers tagging along for free healing. They’re cheap enough that you can use them as a supplement too—the Psychophage heal the Warriors/Tyrant Guard/etc. while the rippers heal the Psychophage. 

This sounds delightfully evil, I may have to try this at some point!

[INKS]

I seen the nurgling list the other day. if I had not already committed to nids - i bought a norn - scared to build and paint it lol - I would be on those nurglings lol

 

[N1SB]

9 hours ago, TheNicronomicon said:

Hide a ripper behind a back line Tyrannofex if you really want to see hate in your opponent’s eyes.

 

That's it, that's the stuff.  When your opponent SEETHES...over what he knows is but a SMALL thing.

 

This happened with my Nurglings and it's hilarious.  Some Smash Captain wastes 3 turns squashing just a single unit, they're just dancing, not hurting him, just refusing to die, and your opponent shakes his head at his own star character.  He's not really mad because it'd be silly to be so at Nurglings, but it's so funny.

 

And the Rippers are Doing Something.  It's not just taking them for the sake of doing so.  This is great.

[INKS]

I will have to try this. haha. Rippers really need a little something that is for sure.

[CL_Mission]

If the next starter box does features Orks that would be a great opportunity to bring back Snotling bases. Indomitus came with Scarab swarms and Leviathan with Ripper swarms so why shouldn't the next box follow the trend?

[INKS]

that might get me to play orks lol