Help in playing a more melee-focused army ....

[Helias_Tancred]

I'm looking for Youtube links, web links, etc giving advice and tactics on how to play a melee-focused army. Melee armies have always been the more difficult to play. It seems to play one its either feast or famine when you play? I've been in this hobby since 2013 and I've always struggled to play the melee game of running space marines. I have a learning disability in math diagnosed when I was in the 8th grade, and part of it is I'm challenged with spatial concepts (Geometry was my bane of life in HS) which tbh makes a game like 40k harder to play all around. I have a difficult time utilizing space and seeing space and future moves in my mind because of that. But anyways I'm 53 now and that was long ago but i still struggle with spatial issues blah. This is one of the reasons why I got rid of my Blood Angel collection over the years! I painted them the best of any collection I've owned but I didn't particularly enjoy their play style in the game. I've currently been building, painting, and playing Black Templars since fall of 2023, but I'm starting to feel like I'm repeating the Blood Angel scenario all over again lol. Not getting a warm fuzzy from their play style. I'm struggling to play them, get my sword brethren and Helbrecht positioned right, crusader squad moved up the board and into place, etc. The truth is in all my years in this hobby the collection I had that I enjoyed their play style the most and came most natural to me was my Dark Angels. I definitely prefer a space marine army that is more shooty with some capable melee! I also enjoyed their flexibility as a collection and army between regular company marines, ravenwing, and deathwing. I played them primarily in 8th edition and tended to run company marines with Ravenwing elements. Didn't like having to worry about getting terminators into melee combat, and I just didn't run them hardly at all ....

 

I want to try learning to better play a more melee-focused army first before I sell off my Black Templars and go back to the faction that of all the years I played I enjoyed playing the most.

 

And you ask how come I didn't just go back to Dark Angels after I sold my Blood Angels? Because I didn't realize the truth of this then, and I've always loved the lore, characters, and now the beautiful new models the Black Templars received. I've also become decent at painting them too (my collection crusade is over on the BT sub forum). 

 

So any resources you guys know of I can turn to for help?

 

Thanks, a ton. 

 

Derek, aka Helias Tancred.

 

 

Edited February 20 by Helias_Tancred

[Helias_Tancred]

Also why would I sell off my Black Templars? Because I don't like owning a faction if I'm not enjoying how it plays and I'm a firm believer in using the money to put into a collection that I will be happy with. I understand not everyone will agree with this. 

 

 

[TheNicronomicon]

No, I totally get it. I wouldn’t want to keep an army I wasn’t having fun with either. What’s in your current BT force? Have there been specific strategies you’ve tried and been disappointed by?

[Helias_Tancred]

2 hours ago, TheNicronomicon said:

No, I totally get it. I wouldn’t want to keep an army I wasn’t having fun with either. What’s in your current BT force? Have there been specific strategies you’ve tried and been disappointed by?

 

Well, I have nearly a 6k collection. So it's what am I missing? lol.

 

Big disappointments have been Helbrecht in an Impulsor with 5 Sword Brethren, and sometimes a castellan added if I don't run a certain vow that grants [lethal hits]. I've been playing 1k games for the last year and a couple months. I'm realizing the impulsor is a poor choice for them, impulsors are sorta traps overall imo for any sort of melee unit. 

 

I currently own:

 

 

Black Templars Collection

1.     10-man Primaris Crusader squad (ranged weapons)

2.     10-man Primaris Crusader squad

3.     10-man Primaris Crusader squad

4.     10-man Primaris Crusader squad

5.     5-man Intercessor squad

6.     5-man Intercessor squad

7.     5-man Assault intercessor with jump packs squad

8.     3-man Eliminator squad

9.     Company Heroes squad

10.  6-man Eradicator squad

11.  10-man Hellblaster squad

12.  3 Impulsors

13.  Repulsor

14.  Storm Speeder Thunderstrike

15.  Drop Pod

16.  Land Raider

17.  Gladiator Reaper

18.  Gladiator Lancer

19.  Predator Annihilator

20.  10-man Sword Brethren squad

21.  5-man Sword Brethren squad

22.  5 Terminators

23.  5-man Sternguard squad

24.  10 Infernus marines

25.  6 Blade Guard Veterans

26.  Redemptor Dreadnought

27.  Ballistus Dreadnought

28.  Castellan with combi-bolter and master-crafted power axe

29.  Castellan with master-crafted power axe and plasma pistol

30.  Marshal with master-crafted power sword / Marshal with powerfist

31.  Techmarine

32.  Apothecary

33.  Apothecary Biologis

34.  High Marshal Helbrecht

35.  Chaplain Grimaldus + servitors

36.  Chaplain

37.  Judiciar

38.  Chaplain in terminator armor

39.  Marshal (Captain) in terminator armor

40.  Emperor’s Champion

 

 

 

 

 

[Tacitus]

Transports of any kind aren't good for melee.  Some are better than others but I don't think any of them are good. With that said, Tanks are a good idea.  Both because melee has difficulties with higher Toughness monsters/vehicles and because they can absorb fire that would otherwise aim at your scary melee units. 

[Helias_Tancred]

2 hours ago, Tacitus said:

Transports of any kind aren't good for melee.  Some are better than others but I don't think any of them are good. With that said, Tanks are a good idea.  Both because melee has difficulties with higher Toughness monsters/vehicles and because they can absorb fire that would otherwise aim at your scary melee units. 

 

You mean repulsors, and land raiders?

[Sir Clausel]

I wouldnt recommend selling any armies if you are just a little unsure.

Space marines dont have to be played as a given chapter even if they are painted that way. See my army for instance. I have played them as blood angels, black templars, space wolves, dark angels and soon ultramarines. 

As long as people can see whats what they dont care. I like black templars color scheme so thats why i chose their colors. 

[TheNicronomicon]

9 hours ago, Helias_Tancred said:

 

You mean repulsors, and land raiders?

Repulsors could work for your bladeguard—get them to the objective you want them to hold and provide covering fire. Land Raiders are great for melee armies IMO—Assault Ramp is the best part but  the tanks can give you the AT you need plus enough dakka to support your melee units. Impulsors are probably better for shooty boys but with the Shield Dome they can also help screen your swordsmen once they’re on foot. 

Edited February 21 by TheNicronomicon
Stupid Autocorrect

[Tacitus]

On 2/20/2025 at 9:06 PM, Helias_Tancred said:

 

You mean repulsors, and land raiders?

I was actually thinking Gladiators and Predators (And Dreads).  More Bang for your Points (if not your buck). 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Have you tried just running at the enemy and stabbing and/or punching them?

[Helias_Tancred]

5 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Have you tried just running at the enemy and stabbing and/or punching them?

 

I'm supposed to do that?!?!?

 

 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

10 hours ago, Helias_Tancred said:

 

I'm supposed to do that?!?!?

 

 

It is highly advised.

[jaxom]

Distraction carnifex. A unit or two that can really mess up enemy plans if not dealt with, but not needed to ensure your own victory.

[Tacitus]

6 hours ago, jaxom said:

Distraction carnifex. A unit or two that can really mess up enemy plans if not dealt with, but not needed to ensure your own victory.

That's somewhat where I was going with the Gladiators and Dreads etc. 

[Medjugorje]

On 2/20/2025 at 10:32 PM, Helias_Tancred said:

Also why would I sell off my Black Templars? Because I don't like owning a faction if I'm not enjoying how it plays and I'm a firm believer in using the money to put into a collection that I will be happy with. I understand not everyone will agree with this. 

 

 

Rules changes so fast. And BT are still good in melee. 

[Medjugorje]

On 2/21/2025 at 3:36 AM, Tacitus said:

Transports of any kind aren't good for melee.  Some are better than others but I don't think any of them are good. With that said, Tanks are a good idea.  Both because melee has difficulties with higher Toughness monsters/vehicles and because they can absorb fire that would otherwise aim at your scary melee units. 

never heard so much wrong things. Transports are  must for squishy PSB. You need to hide the transport after ruins for "staging". 

They are still a great tool for any other things like Tankshocks in the charge, no escape strat target. 

 

And with a castellan and helbrecht you have lethal on 5s which is still the best thing against any vehicles.

[Tacitus]

43 minutes ago, Medjugorje said:

never heard so much wrong things. Transports are  must for squishy PSB. You need to hide the transport after ruins for "staging". 

They are still a great tool for any other things like Tankshocks in the charge, no escape strat target. 

 

And with a castellan and helbrecht you have lethal on 5s which is still the best thing against any vehicles.

Nobody said Transports were bad because they can blow up.  Transports are bad because most of them have an opportunity cost.  Most of them do not allow you to charge on the turn you disembark, unless you didn't use the transport's movement - at which point why have a transport?  Transports are bad for the punchy things because most punchy things don't need a transport and especially don't need to "pay" the opportunity costs let alone the actual points costs.  The only edge cases that really spring to mind would some wild niche events like a Land Raider full of Assault Centurions.  Even the slow and plodding Aggressors have ASSAULT weapons which allows them to advance and shoot.  Paired with the right Detachement or LEADER they can also advance and shoot and charge. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

2 hours ago, Tacitus said:

Nobody said Transports were bad because they can blow up.  Transports are bad because most of them have an opportunity cost.  Most of them do not allow you to charge on the turn you disembark, unless you didn't use the transport's movement - at which point why have a transport?  Transports are bad for the punchy things because most punchy things don't need a transport and especially don't need to "pay" the opportunity costs let alone the actual points costs.  The only edge cases that really spring to mind would some wild niche events like a Land Raider full of Assault Centurions.  Even the slow and plodding Aggressors have ASSAULT weapons which allows them to advance and shoot.  Paired with the right Detachement or LEADER they can also advance and shoot and charge. 

Another problem with the shrunken table sizes.

its harder to justify transports, especially if they don’t have decent shooting of their own.

[Helias_Tancred]

1 hour ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Another problem with the shrunken table sizes.

its harder to justify transports, especially if they don’t have decent shooting of their own.

 

Do you prefer the old full 6' x 4' battle zone?

 

To be candid, I kinda do.

 

 

[Blindhamster]

4 hours ago, Helias_Tancred said:

 

Do you prefer the old full 6' x 4' battle zone?

 

To be candid, I kinda do.

 

 

I still use it at home, I literally have a 6x4 gaming table, purpose built for it in my study

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

15 hours ago, Helias_Tancred said:

 

Do you prefer the old full 6' x 4' battle zone?

 

To be candid, I kinda do.

 

 

Yep.

heavy weapons can actually be out of range of things for at least one turn. No unit, including transports (except maybe a few outliers) couldn’t just zip from DZ to within 24” of any board edge they wanted to.

 

you could actually play around weapons other than pistols. It was just better.

[Helias_Tancred]

What is really stopping us from going back to 6' x 4' if it's not a tournament game? Say if it's just with your friends? As long as you both agree to it?

 

The measurements on the mission cards are easy enough to adjust to it. 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 28 by Helias_Tancred

[Blindhamster]

whenever we play, we keep the measurements for deployment zones etc the same, all it does is create a bit more of a no mans zone, objectives are usually measured from middle of board also so just means you have to work a little harder to get to them in the first place. Works just fine

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

15 hours ago, Helias_Tancred said:

What is really stopping us from going back to 6' x 4' if it's not a tournament game? Say if it's just with your friends? As long as you both agree to it?

 

The measurements on the mission cards are easy enough to adjust to it. 

 

 

 

 

Nothing assuming you have the space.

 

I have a table I can get to 6’ if I put the leaves in, but it’s not 4’ in the other direction.

 

and since no stores I’ve seen still use 6’x4’ it’s just not realistic for me to keep a random 6x4’ piece of poster board or plywood around the house just to be used once a month at best.

[Tacitus]

3 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Nothing assuming you have the space.

 

I have a table I can get to 6’ if I put the leaves in, but it’s not 4’ in the other direction.

 

and since no stores I’ve seen still use 6’x4’ it’s just not realistic for me to keep a random 6x4’ piece of poster board or plywood around the house just to be used once a month at best.

I think for "standard" long edge deployment games the 4" is the more important dimension anyway.  There were two big speed bumps in the previous editions:  Shoot Nearest Target, and No-Deploy within 24".   So many "ranges" (not just shooting) required 24.0000001" of movement+Shooting and/or Charge etc. and most of the game didn't have a way of doing that.