Horus Heresy: Roleplaying Game

[Sothalor]

That article really does give the whole thing big Band of Blades vibes.

[ThePenitentOne]

This game, I presume is subject to the same flaws as all Heresy era games, namely:

 

Any game that doesn't include Xenos and Sisters is ultimately more boring and dull than any game that does, and as such, shouldn't be allowed to take staff, resources and release slots away from more interesting and inclusive games. I know that this hot-take will sound offensive to the ears of people who ARE fans of the era, so to walk it back a bit, at least in the table-top miniature game, some of the models still have 40k utility- I loves me some Spartan (for Deathwatch and GK- the only two marine factions that I'm remotely interested in) and Arvus. And the preexistence of Marine/ Admech/ Guard models in LI scale does provide a basis for an eventual 40k (ie. interesting) game in that scale.

 

And I suppose it is possible that elements of this RPG game might similarly enrich the more interesting and inclusive 40k RPGs made by the same company.

 

 

[StratoKhan]

I like this news, back in the day we had the Deathwatch RPG in 40k, that was another marine-only game, now this has a mix of marines and baseline humans, which could be interesting. I do wonder how characters from multiple legions could work beyond the Istvaan V shattered legions scenario.

 

As for those comments about Heresy taking away resources, etc. I’m a bit confused by this stance - where is the corner of the hobby that you like, so I can go there and complain about it being a drain on more Heresy resources?

4-5 years ago Heresy was languishing hard in terms of support and I don’t recall any Xenos RPGs being released back then with all those extra freed up resources. There was a dedicated HH community that kept things alive, and now Heresy is getting releases and attention (and is allegedly a commercial success) that are more significant, but not on par in comparison to 40k/AoS.

 

This binary of win/lose seems misdirected if in good faith. Or is it just baiting?

 

[ThaneOfTas]

8 minutes ago, StratoKhan said:

This binary of win/lose seems misdirected if in good faith. Or is it just baiting?

I dont believe that its baiting, just a mix of bitterness and envy being as you said, misdirected.

 

And as for Xenos focused RPGs, Wrath and Glory just released an Aeldari sourcebook last year, and if they follow the pattern set by WFRP And Soulbound then there'll likely be more Xenos books coming, I would be very surprised if the Tau and Orks at the least dont get similar sourcebooks, Kroot are already officially playable, and I imagin that seeing as they have existing stats the others would be simple to homebrew until official options come along. Genestealers for either Imperium Meledictum or W&G seems quite reasonable as well.

[Lord Marshal]

On 3/19/2025 at 11:44 PM, ThePenitentOne said:

This game, I presume is subject to the same flaws as all Heresy era games, namely:

 

Any game that doesn't include Xenos and Sisters is ultimately more boring and dull than any game that does, and as such, shouldn't be allowed to take staff, resources and release slots away from more interesting and inclusive games. I know that this hot-take will sound offensive to the ears of people who ARE fans of the era, so to walk it back a bit, at least in the table-top miniature game, some of the models still have 40k utility- I loves me some Spartan (for Deathwatch and GK- the only two marine factions that I'm remotely interested in) and Arvus. And the preexistence of Marine/ Admech/ Guard models in LI scale does provide a basis for an eventual 40k (ie. interesting) game in that scale.

 

And I suppose it is possible that elements of this RPG game might similarly enrich the more interesting and inclusive 40k RPGs made by the same company.

 

The problem with any "well they should stop wasting resources on X thing I dislike!" discussion is that it inevitably circles back to the logic that GW should bin off literally everything that isn't Matched Play 40k because that's clearly the most popular way to play. I'm sure there's plenty of competitive players who'd argue Crusade content is wasting release slots that could be used for more interesting Matched Play content.

 

Dropping support for something doesn't guarantee those resources would be freed up anyway, they simply wouldn't have been allocated in the first place.

 

 

Edited March 26 by Lord Marshal

[ThePenitentOne]

My post was heavy handed. What I'd really rather see is a gradual, narrative based intro of Xenos factions into Heresy era games. You can maintain the timeline- both Eldar and Orks existed during the Heresy if I'm not mistaken. I'd pick one of those two species and add them for an edition- not this one... That's too soon. The game needs to work the narrative to a post Heresy Era where the absence of the Warmaster leaves room for the Imperium to deal with other threats.... And then add whichever Xenos faction is most appropriate to the Lore of the Immediate Post-Heresy.

 

Meanwhile, LI could be given Xenos factions faster- this is the precedent with Epic if I remember correctly. I didn't play it, so memory is imperfect at best, but I believe it was pure Imperial VS. Chaos to start, and Xenos were added later; I'm not sure if Eldar and Orks were added separately or all at once, but I think Tyranids were a later stand-alone release. I find the style of the Epic Hierophant to be far superior to the FW 40k interpretation... And if a faithful reproduction came to LI, I'd be severely temped to buy in.

 

And if BFG ever happens, it can launch with Xenos.

 

Normally I'm better about suggesting the elimination of any content, because obviously, somebody loves it. Apologies for being that guy.

 

As for going matched only: because the best Crusade content is imbedded in the BRB and dexes, it doesn't really take up release slots. When it comes to the Crusade campaign books, I actually sort of agree; all dexes should always be published before any campaign book, Matched or Crusade. In truth, 9th's campaign books were better for including both formats, the issue is that there were too many: every Crusade season got two Hardcover books that covered both systems, two Crusade mission packs and one Matched mission pack. One campaign book per season with content and missions for both Matched and Crusade PLZ, with none of them being released til the end of the dex cycle, and a minimum of two full seasons before the edition change.

 

And you know what? Yes, my motive for the over-the-top hot take WAS jealousy. The new Heresy Admech is SOOOO good! I'd kill to use it in 40k, where Admech only has a couple of units I like anywhere near as much (Sicarians, Ironstriders). Similarly, as often as I post anti-marine, I do love me some Grey Knights and Deathwatch, and the transport capacity of the Spartan really lends itself to a mobile Watch Fortress or GK Hunter Cell. I'm toying with the idea of using Solar Auxilia for Counts-As-Guard with an allied Inquisition force where the Auxilia models, while using guard rules, would actually fluff up as the dedicated house troops of the Inquisitor.

 

I'd rather just have Heresy become something that I can either participate in directly, or at least use in 40k (selected units only if need be), but preferably both. Heresy IS a net-good for the 40k universe- it just needs to be more accessible to me than a small handful of usable Legends cards in order for me to be able to celebrate it as much as it deserves.  Truth be told I am kind of excited about a new edition, but it's bitter sweet- beautiful models that make me so grateful they exist (and in plastic!), but the knowledge that'll only ever be able to use a few if any.

 

I DO want to see where they go.... I just feel excluded, and sometimes that comes across more than any enthusiasm.

[apologist]

7 hours ago, ThePenitentOne said:

My post was heavy handed. What I'd really rather see is a gradual, narrative based intro of Xenos factions into Heresy era games. You can maintain the timeline- both Eldar and Orks existed during the Heresy if I'm not mistaken. I'd pick one of those two species and add them for an edition- not this one... That's too soon. The game needs to work the narrative to a post Heresy Era where the absence of the Warmaster leaves room for the Imperium to deal with other threats.... And then add whichever Xenos faction is most appropriate to the Lore of the Immediate Post-Heresy.

 

Meanwhile, LI could be given Xenos factions faster- this is the precedent with Epic if I remember correctly. I didn't play it, so memory is imperfect at best, but I believe it was pure Imperial VS. Chaos to start, and Xenos were added later; I'm not sure if Eldar and Orks were added separately or all at once, but I think Tyranids were a later stand-alone release. I find the style of the Epic Hierophant to be far superior to the FW 40k interpretation... And if a faithful reproduction came to LI, I'd be severely temped to buy in.

 

That's very much the model I'd like to see. While I like the '(not really) good versus (definitely) evil' narrative of the Horus Heresy, humans versus aliens is far more interesting to me. I'd love to see Eldar and Orks appear in both scales; if not immediately, in the medium term.

 

Codex Titanicus was hot on the heels of the original Adeptus Titanicus, and brought Eldar Titans and Ork Gargants in. Epic: Space Marine was Marine on Marine, while Epic: Space Marine 2nd edition was released with Marines, Eldar and Orks. Those three factions are iconic, and would be a great way to expand the setting into the Great Scouring (or back into the Great Crusade).

 

 

[Petitioner's City]

If we ever do get to the Scouring that seems a good opportunity - but if the situation is the IP separation or financial speration between the games needs to be crystal clear, I'm not sure how they can include 40k races/models in 28mm Scouring at least?

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

On 3/20/2025 at 12:44 AM, ThePenitentOne said:

This game, I presume is subject to the same flaws as all Heresy era games, namely:

 

Any game that doesn't include Xenos and Sisters is ultimately more boring and dull than any game that does, and as such, shouldn't be allowed to take staff, resources and release slots away from more interesting and inclusive games. I know that this hot-take will sound offensive to the ears of people who ARE fans of the era, so to walk it back a bit, at least in the table-top miniature game, some of the models still have 40k utility- I loves me some Spartan (for Deathwatch and GK- the only two marine factions that I'm remotely interested in) and Arvus. And the preexistence of Marine/ Admech/ Guard models in LI scale does provide a basis for an eventual 40k (ie. interesting) game in that scale.

 

And I suppose it is possible that elements of this RPG game might similarly enrich the more interesting and inclusive 40k RPGs made by the same company.

 

 

Back in the day I have been a Ravenloft DM (AD&D & 3rd D&D) for ten years. The most prevalent race encountered were humans as other race were rare and often viewed as unnatural freaks. So if Ravenloft can be run effortlessly with adventures only consisting of humans and creatures of the night so can this upcoming Horus Heresy tabletop game. Just exchange creatures of the night by strange warp entities and the military arm branch of your Explorator Fleet will have the joy of smelling each morning the crisp scent of genocidal barbecue upon landing on Immaterium 666.

 

 

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Well, if people want Xenos and SoB and whatnot, then they should be playing the games from the era / cycle of 1st ed. Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, etc.

Still rules supreme over the pittance that was 2nd ed. DH. 

[N1SB]

New intel, but it's brief at the start of the video, I'll summarise below:

 

 

- you start at the Horus Heresy itself...not news

- you start as a CONSUL, that's new.  You have a war fleet at the start!

- it's a confusing time, you don't know what's up, whom to trust

- you're trying to survive and regroup with Loyalists

- he mentions Guilliman's Imperium Secundus a.k.a. The Unremembered Empire

 

Well, that certainly changes the scale of this RPG.  We already know you have this non-Marine sidekick as a secondary character, but in fact your primary Marine is a Consul leading basically an entire army already.  This is a whole different dynamic than if you were roleplaying as an individual character.

 

The Imperium Secundus part is particularly interesting, because Dan Abnett set it up in The Unremembered Empire, but didn't do much with it.  Now we get this chance to really explore what happened in this mini-Imperium.  It was supposed to be mostly Ultramarines, Dark Angels and Blood Angels, but we know there were other forces that regrouped with them, like Alexis Pollux from the Imperial Fists...and now, YOU.

 

Bit of a game changer, this.  This went from a curiosity to, I'm definitely going to read through and maybe even run the sample PDF that Cubicle 7 typically releases.

 

 

Edited Saturday at 12:12 PM by N1SB

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

This reminds me a bit of D&D Birthright (1995). Each player was a ruler with a domain.

[N1SB]

13 hours ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

This reminds me a bit of D&D Birthright (1995). Each player was a ruler with a domain.

 

I was going to say Legend of 5 Rings because that's what I played, but your Birthright example is better, that's great.

 

+++++

 

Here's how I think of RPGs, just to show where I'm coming from: what minis would you use for a RPG?

 

We actually use Games Workshop minis in our D&D, like some old Warhammer Fantasy Battle ones I don't even know why I had them.  Like there was a boxset of the different schools of magic in the Empire, and I actually use them to represent not just a Wizard, but also a Cleric and a Druid because they look the part.  I also use my Nurgle Blood Bowl team because they represent everything from Zombies to Monsters, I converted some other things like a general bestial form for my Druid's Wild Shape, it's fun stuff.

 

So seeing the WhC article, I was just going to bring out maybe my old 30k Marine minis, I had a really cool converted Iron Hand Sergeant in Artificer Armour, it was basically a Medusan Immortal with his big shield with the Iron Hands symbol and a Chainsword (don't worry, he had a Melta Bomb irl, the sword was for show).

 

Now, having heard the guy...I'd have to see the rules, but it'd be Legiones Imperialis minis.  Like Epic scale.  Like 1 stand wouldn't just be 5 Marines, but represent like a Detachment your Consul would lead.  I mean, that's a literally, physically a different scale...but the point is you're not playing a single character, it's an army RPG.

 

(If Battlefleet Gothic: the Horus Heresy comes out, I'd probably use that instead...actually I wonder if they'll do space navy combat now.)

 

This is fascinating beyond just that it's a 30k RPG...even my initial thought of L5R was samurai politicking, not leading an army.  Fascinating!

[Gorgoff]

I can't imagine it being fun to play or even how thst works.

So we have 5 players on the table and each one is a consul with a warfleet? Sounds more like a boardgame like Shogun than an RPG. 

[Mazer Rackham]

Sounds a bit like Rogue Trader RPG, to me. One PC is the RT, or in this case, Consul, and the others are members of his conclave so to speak, powerful in their own right. It also vaguely sounds like their Patron system from Imperium Maledictum.

[Cactus]

4 hours ago, Gorgoff said:

I can't imagine it being fun to play or even how thst works.

So we have 5 players on the table and each one is a consul with a warfleet? Sounds more like a boardgame like Shogun than an RPG. 

I guess you've never played Pendragon then. RPGs can have player characters in positions of authority and still be fun. I'm curious to see what the rules framework is like for managing and commanding your military assets.

[Xin Ceithan]

The idea of linking this to “Unremembered Empire” is intriguing … if only because it might give the game more of a direction and opportunity for stories beyond just being a rag tag fleet of survivors hopping from battle to battle.

 

I always liked “ gaming in the gaps” and this might give players room to actually make decisions that matter to the world their characters act in instead of being forced to the sidelines of events everyone knows about  all ready in the first place. 
 

Even if C7 doesn’t go that way in end, this  has at least given me some inspirations for some stories set in HH already 

[LameBeard]

4 hours ago, Xin Ceithan said:

The idea of linking this to “Unremembered Empire” is intriguing … if only because it might give the game more of a direction and opportunity for stories beyond just being a rag tag fleet of survivors hopping from battle to battle.

 

I always liked “ gaming in the gaps” and this might give players room to actually make decisions that matter to the world their characters act in instead of being forced to the sidelines of events everyone knows about  all ready in the first place. 
 

Even if C7 doesn’t go that way in end, this  has at least given me some inspirations for some stories set in HH already 

If I remember rightly, it was Cubicle 7 who did the 1st edition of the One Ring, and they did a good job of allowing you to make meaningful difference to the universe whilst still respecting the tone and overall shape of Tolkien’s story. It’s difficult, but possible.

 

I’m still a bit sceptical of how this might work in Horus Heresy. I’m playing a Salamander on their way to Istvaan and I get hailed by an Alpha Legion ship. Am I meant to roleplay surprise when it turns out they lied to me? 

[Gorgoff]

7 hours ago, Mazer Rackham said:

Sounds a bit like Rogue Trader RPG, to me. One PC is the RT, or in this case, Consul, and the others are members of his conclave so to speak, powerful in their own right. It also vaguely sounds like their Patron system from Imperium Maledictum.

Possibly but what kind of adventures do they have? 

7 hours ago, Cactus said:

I guess you've never played Pendragon then.

 

Never even heard of it. Please, elaborate. 

7 hours ago, Cactus said:

RPGs can have player characters in positions of authority and still be fun. I'm curious to see what the rules framework is like for managing and commanding your military assets.

Sounds like one is in charge which is ok, but what happens in the game if one is the commander? In a typical RPG the group stay more or less together for obvious reasons but if one commands a whole warfleet I see no way how that is possible. 

You know what I mean? 

Or do they assume we "do a Star Trek" and if some critical situation happens and we casually send the Consul, Forge Lord, Primus Medicus and other highest ranking officer directly in the danger zone instead of one of his thousands of lakeys? ;)

 

1 hour ago, LameBeard said:

.

 

I’m still a bit sceptical of how this might work in Horus Heresy. I’m playing a Salamander on their way to Istvaan and I get hailed by an Alpha Legion ship. Am I meant to roleplay surprise when it turns out they lied to me? 

That'd be another problem for most if not all players. We know the plot. 

At least the grand picture.

Hm, I just think that the best way to tackle this is a thing like the Dornarian Heresy so the DM has to come up with an alternative timeline that the players feel appropriately paranoid. 

Edited Sunday at 04:07 PM by Gorgoff

[Mazer Rackham]

13 minutes ago, Gorgoff said:

Possibly but what kind of adventures do they have? 

 

In my games? Generally wierd and wonderful with 90% chance of TPK and PC's guns not working.

 

Seriously, though, the RT game basically puts the command of resources into the hands of certain players who form the crew. The crew then fits together like a jigsaw as they husband the necessary wealth and supplies to mount expeditions to make more wealth and supplies.

 

One of the intro ones is discovering a forgeship kind of thing. It's geared more towards exploration and interacting with imperial and non-imperial hierarchies, so angles towards the social. I mean as an alternative, I did run a NPC Rogue Trader, which allowed the other PC's to do what they shone at where and when (where I could).

 

13 minutes ago, Gorgoff said:

Sounds like one is in charge which is ok, but what happens in the game if one is the commander? In a typical RPG the group stay more or less together for obvious reasons but if one commands a whole warfleet I see no way how that is possible. 

 

You know what I mean? 

 

Or do they assume we "do a Star Trek" and if some critical situation happens and we casually send the Consul, Forge Lord, Primus Medicus and other highest ranking officer directly in the danger zone instead of one of his thousands of lakeys? ;)

 

I actually do know how you mean. I'd have to go back to the RT example. The PC's are one of many, but only they can do what that PC can do. In this respect, I would assume the system of 'minions' or vessels or War Assets(?) would be sent on thier own little missions like in NMS, so they go offscreen, fight, maybe that battle is changed by having a Praevian, whom installs Murder Servitors on your ship, so it gets +2 to Krumpin'?

 

13 minutes ago, Gorgoff said:

That'd be another problem for most if not all players. We know the plot. At least the grand picture.

Hm, I just think that the best way to tackle this is a thing like the Dornarian Heresy so the DM has to come up with an alternative timeline that the players feel appropriately paranoid. 

 

To be fair, I understand what you mean, especially as a GM, but I wouldn't go as far as to invent an alternate timeline - what it is brings the boys to the yard, no? 

 

We do have a canon Heresy game which will restart in the Nook in a couple of months or so, where we do all know the plot, but we've got an Iron Warrior, a Sallie, and an Iron Hand all working together quite well using the Deathwatch RPG template, and it's more the interactions between them and how they adapt to this new world that's were the milkshake is whipped.

 

That's what RP is after all - suspension of disbelief. Boiling it down, sure, we know the story of the Heresy...

 

But we don't know yours.

 

2 hours ago, LameBeard said:

I’m still a bit sceptical of how this might work in Horus Heresy. I’m playing a Salamander on their way to Istvaan and I get hailed by an Alpha Legion ship. Am I meant to roleplay surprise when it turns out they lied to me? 

 

Sallies: Fuego!

Alpha Legion: Nani!?!?!?

 

[Gorgoff]

I guess if I'd DM that game I would change certain aspects of the Heresy and don't tell my players. That would definitly be an eye opener for them and well worth the little efford it takes. 

No matter how hard they'd try to igore the knowledge they have it still is in their heads and if they suddenly hear ingame that the Raven Guard turned against the Salamanders and Iron Hands and only the intervention of the Night Lords saved the life of Ferrus Manus and nobody knows where Vulkan is, would definitely blow them of their feet. And if I as a DM do it as a rumor the players still really don't know if I changed the plot or not which could create a nice paranoid vibe. 

 

@Mazer Rackham "Murder servo-automata breached into the armoury! We need back up, we need backu---- Static hiss" 

Sounds great to me as an idea.

Edited Monday at 08:56 AM by Gorgoff