Kill Team Blood and Zeal

[Nephaston]

Thinking about it; with these being footsloggers and not jump packs I would have preferred them to be Khorngors, which would have been neat way to have them visually distinct. Especially if you keep the same fluff of these being more lucid as a nice inverse of beastmen being the savage ones. Hell, if the stats make sense one might just kitbash these with Fellgor.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Haven't read 5 pages of comments, do like the minis. Love the extra depth to the setting.

 

But, what about an Actual Sisters KT?

And, what about an Actual Bloodletters KT

[Nephaston]

12 minutes ago, Interrogator Stobz said:

But, what about an Actual Sisters KT?

And, what about an Actual Bloodletters KT

 

Soon™

[LSM]

1 hour ago, Plaguecaster said:

...not like we have actual instances of world eaters fighting differently like the Teeth of Khorne who actually where shown to use ranged weapons...

 

I've seen people talk about "The Teeth of Khorne" before, and have asked before: does anyone have a source on that?

 

Because the closest I can come is Realm of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness, where World Eaters Devastator squads are described thusly: "As the teeth of the World Eaters, Devastator Squads rarely limit themselves to providing covering support. They are often found in the thick of any fight, taking blood with as much abandon as their comrades-in-arms."

 

Rules wise, they were the same as Black Legion and Emperor's Children Devastator Squads, with the exception of being in 8 man units and having Chainswords as default equipment (whereas Black Legion ones were 10 man, and Emperor's Children were 6 man and had Hallucinogen Grenades as default). 

 

So... not a proper noun. Not "The Teeth of Khorne", but "the teeth of the World Eaters". At a time before the existence of the four Cult Legions, back when the Night Lords and Word Bearers were also devoted to the Blood God.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

15 hours ago, Madao said:

I really don't like the cultists - they don't fit the universe IMO. Why do they have replaced legs with high-quality cybernetics (looking similar to Sicarian legs from AdMech)?

On the other hand, ministorium one looks nice (aside from Miraculist - not only she looks weird due to her 'dress', but also pulls Christianity strings, which I don't like in 40k aesthetics)

Umm…40k’s entire lore around the imperium is a parody of Christianity…

 

the ecclisiarchy is a parody of the Catholic Church.

 

sanguinius can be viewed as either the archangel Michael or Jesus, or a mixture of both.

[Rain]

1 hour ago, Plaguecaster said:

Could of easily given them something they need and don't have already but no we have to go with the stupid and extremely limited imagination of "all world eaters must only  be berserkers"  even then it's not hard

 

not like we have actual instances of world eaters fighting differently like the Teeth of Khorne who actually where shown to use ranged weapons 

Let's not forget about Lheor as well 

 

Jump pack WE would of been easy to do as well, berserkers may be mindless butchers but even they would realize strapping a jump pack onto your back would let you get closer to the enemy alot faster where you can kill even more enemies 

All World Eaters are berzerkers but that doesn’t mean that the only Astartes infantry that we should have should be called Khorne Berzerkers. Just like how all Death Guard are plague marines, but that doesn’t preclude them from having Deathshroud. Berzerkers generally are just Khorne worshippers that have taken the Nails. This applies to all WE, but the Nails affect each individual differently.

 

Some become totally lost to constant rage,  and these are generally interred in either dreadnoughts or Red Butcher armor (which we lack unit representation for). Others retain cogent thought, at least out of combat, and it stands to reason that they would train in various weapons and doctrines, though heavily focused on melee combat. By the way the retention of reason out of combat is canon as of at least the 9th ed codex, which states that even Khârn is a shrewd tactician when he’s not in direct combat.

 

Also, as Idaho has brought up, theme is important too. For World Eaters, the historical theme and influence is gladiators, but we have no explicitly gladiator themed unit. The Heresy version of WE has Rampagers with various gladiatorial weapons, but the 40k version has nothing.

 

@LSM Teeth of Khorne are not canon. It comes from a note by a sketch from very early on, I think pre 2nd edition. Edit: nevermind, you might be right. They might never have actually even been called “Teeth of Khorne” but there were sketches of WE with heavy weapons from very long ago.

Edited yesterday at 02:05 AM by Rain

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

16 hours ago, Azaiel said:

great for the Inq 28 crowd

I was thinking this when I saw them. The whole box would be great for Inq28.

[LSM]

1 hour ago, Rain said:

@LSM Teeth of Khorne are not canon. It comes from a note by a sketch from very early on, I think pre 2nd edition. Edit: nevermind, you might be right. They might never have actually even been called “Teeth of Khorne” but there were sketches of WE with heavy weapons from very long ago.

 

Oh yeah, I'd love Jes Goodwin skull helmet Plasma Cannon + Chainsword dudes. (Plasma Cannons. Ehhh? Ehhhhh? Plasma, because... blood plasma...)

 

But I do agree with the others that such a release wouldn't fit with Kill Team.

 

[Marshal Loss]

I like the Sanctifiers as a motley group of 40k Imperial sculpts that I'm happy to admire but will never purchase, being the filthy traitor I am - they'd look fantastic with the right paintjob. Jakhals attempting to roleplay as Bloodletters wasn't what I had hoped a World Eaters KT would look like. 

 

Swing and a miss for me overall.

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

Just posing this question to people who don’t think the Goremongers are what people who play World Eaters necessarily wanted, was it ever stated that the ‘Blood’ half of the ‘Blood And Zeal’ box would be World Eater in nature? I’m not trying to be controversial or confrontational, but I see them as being a cool mortal Khorne cult. No doubt GW will shoe horn them into the WE codex, but I thought that Killteam was an opportunity to explore smaller forces or organisations, that while playable at a larger scale, don’t necessarily belong on a larger 40k battleground, just like WarCry does for AoS. However, I do love the Goremongers and the Sanctifiers and I feel both forces would be great sources of models and bits for Inq28 as others have mentioned.

 

Edit: I would love for GW to release a Lost and the Damned army list with all the miscellaneous traitors and heretics that don’t necessarily fit into the Heretic Astartes Codices like Taitor Guard and Dark Mechanicus. It could cover units like Negavolt Cultist, beastmen and these guys.

Edited yesterday at 08:55 AM by FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants

[HeadlessCross]

10 hours ago, Mogger351 said:

I love it. 2 concurrent threads, one yelling "where are the cultists" and another yelling "we don't want cultists".

 

Gw releases in a nutshell.

Pretty dishonest take when you know that World Eaters already had one Cultist equivalent and Emperor's Children lost a unit they had access to for years entirely. 

[Mogger351]

1 hour ago, FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants said:

Just posing this question to people who don’t think the Goremongers are what people who play World Eaters wanted, was it ever stated that ‘Blood’ half of the ‘Blood And Zeal’ box would be World Eater in nature? I’m not trying to be controversial or confrontational, but I see them as being a cool mortal Khorne cult. No doubt GW will shoe horn them into the WE codex, but I thought that Killteam was an opportunity to explore smaller forces or organisations, that while could be played with a larger scale, don’t necessarily belong on a larger 40k background, just like WarCry does for AoS. I do love the Goremongers and the Sanctifiers and I feel both forces would be great sources of models and bits for Inq28 as others have mentioned.

 

Edit: I would love for GW to release a Lost and the Damned army list with all the miscellaneous traitors and heretics that don’t necessarily fit into the Heretic Astartes Codices like Taitor Guard and Dark Mechanicus. It could cover units like Negavolt Cultist, beastmen and these guys.

For some of the context it's heightened atm because the EC release has 0 ciltists units, but 4 power armoured units. The EC fan base are very vocally (in general oine, not here specificslly) lamenting a lack of cultists.

 

World eaters have 1 power armoured unit and 1 cultist unit. In my eyes mor of either is good, but given the army is themed around the marine, having more of them makes sense. That said I'd hoped for a scout equivalent. Gladitorial marines with stripped down armour.

 

As for the rumours, Valrak always said khorne, but speculated it'd be world eaters recently. As a result you join the dots and get marines as a default assumption.

1 minute ago, HeadlessCross said:

Pretty dishonest take when you know that World Eaters already had one Cultist equivalent and Emperor's Children lost a unit they had access to for years entirely. 

OK, what was dishonest about it? Quite literally youre repeating what I said, but just trying to be angry at someone.

[Xenith]

I love that preacher Josef is back!

 

EDIT: Beaten to it by some way, that's what I get for posting without reading the whole topic...

Edited 22 hours ago by Xenith

[WARMASTER_]

11 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

 

Maybe I just like female representation in its own niche and thus feel this dilutes it somewhat. 

 

As others have pointed out, the Inquisitor fluff and all the depictions until this one have been female, so it creates a trend in the narrative that I'll personally miss.

 

 

 

Female death cult assassins still exist though so how aren’t they being represented? 
 

having read the inquisitor lore many times and having it to hand it never states anyway that males weren’t part of the death cults it even has a male assassin next to the twins in its depiction 

 

you’re shrinking your own world view of 40K by assuming they can’t not vice versa, the death cults aren’t part of any governing departmento within the lore so there’s no galaxy spanning organisational oversight like the guard or the astartes so it’s obvious both males and females would joint maybe a specific cult in the segmentum solar is a sisterhood of assassins maybe one in the segmentum obscures is a brotherhood they’ll be a myriad of organisational tendencies that will change between temples 

 

The imperium [lore] always has a good reason for solely using one sex, the SOB can’t be men under arms so they’re raised on a technicality, the astartes are gene locked by their primarchs, and while I don’t like the new custodes change [they should have done it at the start of the heresy like the authors wanted] they were never gene locked from being female 

 

Even in lore when we’ve seen great depictions of female death cult assassins like in the vaults of Terra series it’s stated that the promising girls of shoba are taken for training in the death cults and the males are taken to be iron shades, same is also true in the iron hands series where there’s a female death cult in the land of shadows because any promising male is used by the iron hands 

 

it wouldn’t make any sense if it was solely female because there’s just too many worlds and no governing body between them 

[Captain Idaho]

I never said the background was exclusive on them, I have been consistent that the depictions of Death Cult Assassins are female has been a regular narrative in GW and Black Library stories since their promotion in the Inquisitor game and beyond. Rereading my posts in this very topic you can see that I've said as much.

 

By making them male, it is a depiction that is removed. I'd rather the female characters represented in the game aren't removed whimiscally or for unclear reasons personally, since it is a niche they fill quite nicely.

 

Are they removed now? Well yes. What female Death Cult models are sold by GW now then? Without representation by GW they cease to be, since they're not in the official zeitgeist therefore they become relegated to outdated and fan made.

[SvenIronhand]

3 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

What female Death Cult models are sold by GW now then?

The one in the Elucidian Starstriders, for one.

[LSM]

6 hours ago, FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants said:

Just posing this question to people who don’t think the Goremongers are what people who play World Eaters necessarily wanted, was it ever stated that the ‘Blood’ half of the ‘Blood And Zeal’ box would be World Eater in nature? I’m not trying to be controversial or confrontational, but I see them as being a cool mortal Khorne cult. No doubt GW will shoe horn them into the WE codex...

 

Jakhals are an established part of the World Eaters army. They are Cultists who seek to emulate the Astartes' gore-crazed purity, and go into battle with tanks of combat stimms that are topped up with eight drops of their masters' blood. They wear gimp masks which somewhat reflect their role as the Legion's wild dogs, and wield two Chainweapons.

 

Goremongers are Khorne Cultists and Bloodletter stans. They seek to emulate the daemons' purity, replacing their legs and going into battle with tanks of combat stimms that are topped up with drops of their masters' blood. They wear gimp masks, and are some of Khorne's most lucid and reliable troops, and wield two-handed Chainweapons (as well as a number of specialist Kill Team Operative loadouts).

 

They will very easily and naturally fit into Codex: World Eaters. (In fact, one assumes "their masters' blood" is a reference to their World Eater masters.)

 

//

 

The Cult Legion codexes seem like they're on track to be "the god books". I imagine anything Khorne related will, in the future, be World Eaters. It didn't cross my mind that a Khorne Kill Team wouldn't be useable by World Eater players in 40k, honestly.

 

//

 

I can readily sympathise with World Eater players. Something is better than nothing, but there is both the opportunity cost and... the sense that, having gotten a new unit, they may "go to the back of the line" for other new units (which they desperately need). "Why are you complaining about a single-hero Codex release? You just got Goremongers" type of thing. 

 

As an Emperor's Children player, for a long time in any sort of wishlisting, I'd note that I didn't want a bespoke Cultist unit. The reason? There's at least a dozen kits I can think of (and likely a dozen I haven't thought of) that I'd prefer to have instead. So personally, I was quite happy to not see any amongst our seven releases.

 

I was also surprised that the Cultist unit isn't in the Emperor's Children Codex, borrowed from Codex: CSMs, for the brothers and sisters of Slaanesh who would like to have some.

 

I can both not want a box of EC Cultists, and want an EC Cultist datasheet.

 

//

 

An aside: I'm not a big fan of the Jakhal aesthetic, largely because cultists hooked up to giant tanks of combat stimms and wearing gimp masks... I mean, switch out their chainblades for knives, snip off any Khorne icons, add a couple spare Daemonette claws you have hanging around... you've got yourself some pretty good looking Emperor's Children Cultists.

 

These Goremongers at least lean into the Bloodletter look (a bit), and are better for it.

 

//

 

Also, personally, if designing a non-Astartes side of the World Eaters, I would have leaned into a "Blood Pact" professional military aspect. Traitor Guard who underpin the operations side of the Legion, allowing the Berzerkers to go do their thing. Jakhals are just "more Berzerkers, but human". Goremongers are then more "more Berzerkers, but human". I already find Jakhals uninteresting narratively, adding more Jakhals to the Jakhals is... not as I would have done.

[irlLordy]

8 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

Are they removed now? Well yes. What female Death Cult models are sold by GW now then? Without representation by GW they cease to be, since they're not in the official zeitgeist therefore they become relegated to outdated and fan made.

 

There is a female Death Cult assassin still on sale as part of the Elucidian Starstriders kill team.

[Captain Idaho]

29 minutes ago, SvenIronhand said:

The one in the Elucidian Starstriders, for one.

 

Oh something not in production?

[Ramell]

13 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

 

Oh something not in production?

They're currently selling it as the Rogue Trader Entourage and Voidsmen-at-Arms, under Agents of the Imperium. It was originally from Blackstone Fortress.

[TheMawr]

When not looking at the clear 40k adoptees ( Striking scorpions, upgrade sprues and repurposed spacemarine heroes.) the kill teams where you can definitely say they where made for kill team :

 

Spacemarines - Scouts (?)
CSM - Traitor Guard & Beastmen

SoB - Novitates & Frateris Militia
Tau - Kroot & Vespids
Eldar - Corsairs

Dark Eldar - Mandrakes (?)

Orks - the unorkiest orks -> Kommandos, cosplaying as humans

 

The only ones not focusing on the sidedish elements of a faction are Guard and Imperial Agents.. but they already are the sidedish by nature, just a very big sidedish with their own army treatment ;)

Luckily for those who only want main dish elements, there is no reason to assume that if it doesnt happen in kill team, it will not likely ever happen. Im sure there will be Marine releases beyond kill team.

 

However while I do personally prefer this focus on minor elements for new miniatures I do understand that the problem isnt only with the new miniatures side of the equation. And people would even agree with it if there at least was a way to play their WE berzerkers in kill team or an actual Sisters of Battle kill team, especially since some other armies can have that because they where upgrade sprue kill teams when GW tried to milk it more. Thats a whole different problem, and a valid concern/complaint.

 

But I didnt write it down to speculate how it should be, but to be wary that any near future kill team very likely follows the above pattern, unless its a quick drop in like Striking scorpions and Tankbustas where.

 

This is why I kept and keep speculating about the Grey knights kill team not actually having Grey knights and the likeliest candidate being a grey knight techmarine with some variety of arcane servitors. ( fueled by Certain rumor engines, an art piece in the previous kill team book looking to be a silhouette of a spacemarine with a hammer and techmarine harnass and the fact that it quite fits GWs current mindset of daemonic tech to have Grey knights get a chaff unit that interacts/counters that element. and last but not least, if Grey knights would have a PA kill team that would have been called half a refresh in rumor circles, but they all say NO GK refresh now.)

 

( This is also why a while back I said I wonder if Arbites might have been considered to be the "Custodes" kill team by the core designers after that tithe animation dropped.)

Im going deeper on all of this in a Amicus aedes topic some time soon (in GW terms soon)..

 

 

I like these, I like how oddball teams expand the setting more compared to spec-ops variants of excisting material.

If ratlings where a regular release for example, it would just be the same old 5 man squad, probably even etb or option less to cut cost... but as a kill team a lot of identity is given to ratlings.. its almost a small army treatment for something that will not be a seperate army.

But if you dont, be wary to keep your expectations low for Kill team, because it seems thats GWs focus. But dont assume that GW creates something nobody likes just because you dont like it.

 

 

With all that said

The deathcult assassin remains a head scratcher... the whole discussion on its gender completely void because the problem isnt in its gender, its in the fact that its one of the least 40kish or even GWish miniature Ive seen in a while ( and on closer inspection.. what is going on with its head ?). But even if it was a near copy paste of the very nice Elucian starstriders deathcult assassin ( wich was a weird inclusion too, but at least a quality one.) I really dont get its inclusion... there are a dozen other 11th random operatives anyone could have thought of that complimented the vibe... heck, it could be left out and the kill team would probably have felt complete.

 

 

[Captain Idaho]

26 minutes ago, Ramell said:

They're currently selling it as the Rogue Trader Entourage and Voidsmen-at-Arms, under Agents of the Imperium. It was originally from Blackstone Fortress.

 

Oh found it. Ta very much.

 

Though my point stands on visibility of representation.

 

Though I'm happy people are happy with the release of course. It's a personal view I have and it's not a massively prominent narrative that won't overly affect the IP regardless.

Edited 19 hours ago by Captain Idaho

[Dr. Clock]

Well here's hoping that in 40k the Goremongers end up being more relevant to the list than Fellgor Beastmen anyway... I don't hate the idea of Scout or Infiltrating 8-man jakhals and I'm always a sucker for digitigrade legs, but I've never been sold on the tanks on their backs and the weapons have always looked a bit too heavy for their arms.

Having at least 60 khorne cultist equivalents (read: Beastmen and Necromunda and Warcry) from days past that don't see the table much, I do hunger for a list where it makes at least some sense to take more than 2x10 jakhals.

 

The main issue I can see is that they're only 8 in a box... Though if you can reinforce to 16 that might be more spicy, especially if they are high move (8" Scout and 8" Move, yeah?)...

 

Anyhow... fingers crossed there's a reasonable 'WE without the marines' list in the new 'dex; I do wanna run a horde list with just a heap of daemon engines and cultists and daemons as I haven't really been able to do that very well this edition yet (though I have yet to try out the CSM Cult list).

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[Rain]

1 hour ago, LSM said:

 

I can readily sympathise with World Eater players. Something is better than nothing, but there is both the opportunity cost and... the sense that, having gotten a new unit, they may "go to the back of the line" for other new units (which they desperately need). "Why are you complaining about a single-hero Codex release? You just got Goremongers" type of thing. 

 

As an Emperor's Children player, for a long time in any sort of wishlisting, I'd note that I didn't want a bespoke Cultist unit. The reason? There's at least a dozen kits I can think of (and likely a dozen I haven't thought of) that I'd prefer to have instead. So personally, I was quite happy to not see any amongst our seven releases.

 

It’s entirely a matter of opportunity cost. If World Eaters already had a big roster of PA units, I would not care if they wanted to add another unit that I happen to not be interested in. People talking about what does or does not “fit” as a Kill Team is all well and good, but KT is also effectively a contributor of units to 40k, especially to armies that don’t normally get much. DE got updated Mandrakes, Night Lords got a kit to better represent their aesthetics, Orks got Kommandos, Space Marines (very undersupported army otherwise) got Scouts.

 

They could have figured out a PA World Eaters unit to add. Relatively “sane” World Eaters (by the standards of Chaos Marines generally) exist in lore, and Kill Teams of World Eaters were explicitly mentioned in the Nachmund materials as posted in other threads around here.

 

Anyway, I’ve said what there is to say here. I’m glad that some people are excited about it, but this is the worst thing they could have done from my perspective. I would have much preferred updated Bloodletters or Beastmen over this, if they had to go “not PA.”

[Marshal Mittens]

Honestly I love all these figures. Voth teams look great, I will probably pick this box up.