Heresy 3.0 in Spring/Summer

[Evil Eye]

I was considering dipping my toe into Heresy, glad I held off now! Hoping the rules are good at least, also looking forward to seeing what new models come out- I hope they do produce plastic Mark IV Castraferrum Dreadnoughts. Even I couldn't resist those.

[Xenith]

5 hours ago, Mogger351 said:

I've been sat on the cusp of wanting to be involved in HH for ages, but the remaining resin stuff and larger game size have held me back. If they can do something to make a lower entry point than 3k b3ing the norm, that'd be a big help.

 

The AoD set is pretty much a 2000pts army right from the box and was available for £126 at times. From there, something like a Kratos, and a leviathan gets you to pretty much 3k with upgrades. You can probably hit 3k off the bat if you run the marines as veterans in pride of the legion. Have you tried asking for 2k games locally? We play them all the time. 

 

5 hours ago, Gaz Taylor said:

I've been toying with Heresy for a while now but not committed as I had a feeling new books would be on the way. 

 

Hate to say it, but even if they release heresy 3.0 in the summer, new books will still be on the way, with another edition in 3 years. 

 

3 hours ago, Redcomet said:

If you don’t like 3 year rules cycles, stop supporting it. But big marine boxes are like catnip to the B&C members  :D

 

3 year updates/revisions are fine. 3 year total reinventions of the wheel and having to unlearn and relearn everything, not so good. 

 

If this is a straight streamline of the books, adding in FAQ's and tweaks to some little used rites, and giving parity of options to legions, this will be a great release. 

Edited Monday at 08:36 PM by Xenith

[Aarik]

I'd be surprised if GW drastically re-did the rules, or essentially converted them to 40k-style rules.  I think they have settled in to having 30k and The Old World as the sci-fi/fantasy alternative games for grognards and the more hobby-focused peeps.  But they've surprised me before, so who knows.  Assuming that this will be a clean-up edition rather than a re-write though, I hope that they have taken the opportunity to really dive into game balance.  First and foremost, I hope that they bring the "secondary" armies -- Solar Auxilia, Mechanicum, Militia, Talons, and Daemons -- on par with marines.  Given how much effort GW has put into plasticizing Solar Aux and Mechanicum in particular, one would think that they would want to give them rules that don't handicap those armies from the jump.  Then secondarily, give the marine units and rules a balance pass too.  In particular, I would personally love it if dreadnoughts were toned down enough that the community does not feel the need to limit them to one per 1,000 points, but not so toned down that they are not good.  Essentially I just absolutely love painting them and would like to be able to bring more on the table without being cheesy.  But overall, it seems like people still like the bones of the game, and it just needs tweaking around the margins.  

[Doghouse]

Gah, part of me thinks yeah Heresy does need some tweaking but I really don't want all my black books made obsolete. 

[Xirix]

I am glad we got a few more rumours on what these "Saturnine" Terminators might be like though. I did wonder how they were going to make them different to any of the other marks, seems with all the talk of melta and plasma maybe they're going to be high energy output terminators.

[01RTB01]

3 hours ago, Mogger351 said:

I've been sat on the cusp of wanting to be involved in HH for ages, but the remaining resin stuff and larger game size have held me back. If they can do something to make a lower entry point than 3k b3ing the norm, that'd be a big help.

If you consider the cost of the AoD box that gives you an army in a box.

 

Depending on how you kit it out you're ready to go for 2k games of heresy or perhaps games of zone mortals. 

 

It's less than 2 40k combat patrols. If you consider the old ork combat patrol box was 460 points, you'd need 4 of those to play a 'standard' game of 40k and you wouldn't have a legal/ useable army.

 

The AoD core box is genuinely a fantastic starting point and decent value - you can play 1500/2000 point games out the box or zone mortalis games. 

 

Add a dash of legion specific stuff/ other units you fancy and it soon ramps up to 3k. Heresy (when sticking with plastic) is arguably much more affordable than 40k. 

 

There's also sufficient in plastic now we have cc weapons and assault marines that the only basic need currently (imo) is breachers. Otherwise, plenty to go at. Dive in frater!

[DemonGSides]

1 hour ago, Lord Marshal said:

 

AoD wasn't a FOMO box. It's a normal item like in the good ol' days, or it will be until this boxset presumably.

 

 

Never said it was a FOMO Box.  Similar to AoS 3.0, Dominion, it was just a box they made way too many of.

[crimsondave]

9 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

 

Never said it was a FOMO Box.  Similar to AoS 3.0, Dominion, it was just a box they made way too many of.

It’s a really good box.  If they’d mark it down I’d buy it.

[01RTB01]

3 minutes ago, crimsondave said:

It’s a really good box.  If they’d mark it down I’d buy it.

Buying it all separately would cost you twice the price of the box, that's before you hit any discounts. 

 

Honestly, it's GWs best value box bar none. Even down the mkvi in it with some upgrades can be heavy support, veterans, tactical support squads, despoilers, etc.

[ZeroWolf]

6 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

 

Never said it was a FOMO Box.  Similar to AoS 3.0, Dominion, it was just a box they made way too many of.

It's actually more akin to 40ks ultimate starter box, it's constantly being produced and will be till presumably a short while before this rumoured box drops. Then that box will exist for the next three years.

[WrathOfTheLion]

1 hour ago, DemonGSides said:

 

Never said it was a FOMO Box.  Similar to AoS 3.0, Dominion, it was just a box they made way too many of.

As others said, it's intended to be part of the range and is in continuous production, which is very different from items they produced a ton of in a single run. It's very likely the box has had a couple production runs over the past couple years. So it's still around because they keep making more if needed.

Edited Monday at 07:47 PM by WrathOfTheLion
grammar

[Corswain]

Always pleased to see more Heresy but absolutely agree that I don't want a 3 year rules cycle.

I don't even play but I enjoy building collections to a themed army list so I can see how frustrating it could be for gamers.

Here's hoping that it is just a refresh and tightening up of the ruleset and not an overhaul.

 

[Spagunk]

2 hours ago, Aarik said:

... In particular, I would personally love it if dreadnoughts were toned down enough that the community does not feel the need to limit them to one per 1,000 points, but not so toned down that they are not good.  Essentially I just absolutely love painting them and would like to be able to bring more on the table without being cheesy. 

There were some comments among the rumor (which did NOT come from valrak) that we'll see T6, 4W dreads this edition. I don't put a lot of faith in that since it's a very SEVERE nerf but that was the only number I had seen tied to the base rumor.

[01RTB01]

7 minutes ago, Spagunk said:

There were some comments among the rumor (which did NOT come from valrak) that we'll see T6, 4W dreads this edition. I don't put a lot of faith in that since it's a very SEVERE nerf but that was the only number I had seen tied to the base rumor.

 

In fairness, dreads need dealing with. It wouldn't be outrageous at t6 and 4w.

[brother_b]

I’m an expansive hobbyist, I love miniature gaming and the hobby. Everything draws me in, but the GW edition grind is getting old. I’m still working on my first HH box set and haven’t played a game yet!

 

I hope it’s more streamline than huge change a la 9th to 10th 40K.

[Spagunk]

7 minutes ago, 01RTB01 said:

 

In fairness, dreads need dealing with. It wouldn't be outrageous at t6 and 4w.

Sure. But it really depends on where they go.

 

HH dreads have the trifecta of pretty good price, really tough and great weapons. If they nerf the toughness but still keep them decently priced and great weapons it would be fine. If they do the typical GW pendulum swing of higher prices, less tough and crap weapons then it may be lights out for a great unit entry. Probably too early for me to really put any emotion to the rumor at this point.

[Mr Farson]

3 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

My local place still has boxes of AoD kicking around, wonder if they'll print as much of the new box as they seemed to overprint of that old box.

 

AOD wasn't a timed exclusive its a general stock item like the £100 40k / aos starter boxes 

[01RTB01]

1 hour ago, DemonGSides said:

 

Never said it was a FOMO Box.  Similar to AoS 3.0, Dominion, it was just a box they made way too many of.

Dominion was a launch box that was a splash release.

 

AoD box was always going to stick around which is why it's still available directly from GW. It was never supposed to be a fomo box.

[Xenith]

49 minutes ago, Spagunk said:

There were some comments among the rumor (which did NOT come from valrak) that we'll see T6, 4W dreads this edition. I don't put a lot of faith in that since it's a very SEVERE nerf but that was the only number I had seen tied to the base rumor.

 

Old dreads were Av12 3HP, which meant plasma wounded on a 5+ no save and krak missiles on a 4+ no save. Making contemptors T8 3+ 3/4W would put them about where they used to be, and make them a lot stronger against small arms.

[Waaagh?]

Are these not just the same rumours we heard ages ago? Someone enlighten me on what I'm missing?

[Marshal Loss]

Is there any new information in the video? I think we've heard this a few times now.

 

In any case, I hope they've taken the opportunity to do a very solid balance pass. There are obvious offenders like Dreadnoughts, HSS, certain reactions and the like which definitely need a tweak but other little things like certain rites of war giving line to their special units in certain legions (particularly on the loyalist side) and not in others can be a bit of a buzz kill. It's a great game, but there's a lot of room for improvement.

 

I also hope that 2.5/3.0 brings with it a renewed focus on core infantry kits moving to plastic.

[Astartes Consul]

As ever, I'm willing to be burnt by GW's capacity for cynicism, but I'd be amazed if HH 3.0 was the kind of completely rewrite situation that people are worrying about. The pace of rules release for 2.0 was so glacial after the initial Liber Astartes books that I would suggest the studio simply doesn't have the capacity for the 40k style constant rules changes. There's also the evidence of TOW, Necromunda and other systems they have oversight of, which makes me quite confident this will be more of an 'update too big to be an FAQ' rather than tearing the whole thing up and starting again.

[Ripper.McGuirl]

Like everyone else, I am fine if what we are getting is a balance pass update. They did that a couple times in the life of the previous edition. I’d be probably not stoked at a brand new edition though.

[Mogger351]

3 hours ago, 01RTB01 said:

If you consider the cost of the AoD box that gives you an army in a box.

 

Depending on how you kit it out you're ready to go for 2k games of heresy or perhaps games of zone mortals. 

 

It's less than 2 40k combat patrols. If you consider the old ork combat patrol box was 460 points, you'd need 4 of those to play a 'standard' game of 40k and you wouldn't have a legal/ useable army.

 

The AoD core box is genuinely a fantastic starting point and decent value - you can play 1500/2000 point games out the box or zone mortalis games. 

 

Add a dash of legion specific stuff/ other units you fancy and it soon ramps up to 3k. Heresy (when sticking with plastic) is arguably much more affordable than 40k. 

 

There's also sufficient in plastic now we have cc weapons and assault marines that the only basic need currently (imo) is breachers. Otherwise, plenty to go at. Dive in frater!

See these comments are full of positivity, which is encouraging, but on the flip side:

I can play with a combat patrol and nothing else, I don't need to own a 60 model army to play entry level 40k, I don't need a 4x4 table of specialist terrain. Yes it's cheaper than 2 combat patrols, but it's also not a full size army. 

 

All that said, I have gone and bought some mechanicum, so bring on June I guess?

 

[Spagunk]

People also forget that HH Zone Mortalis is a thing. So you don't in fact need 60 models to play Heresy.