Heresy 3.0 in Spring/Summer

[Decimus Felix]

There's a new rumour doing the rounds too on Reddit that we're getting new MK.IV, plastic rapiers, a couple of characters and I believe someone also said there's a plastic javelin?

[Orange Knight]

I don't know if I will invest in the new Heresy.

 

I certainly have no desire to purchase another massive box. I currently have a 4 thousand point Heresy army - fully assembled and painted consistently throughout. It was the last massive hobby project I undertook before I became a dad. One of the linchpin units in my force was heavily nerfed, and then never re-ballanced so it's pretty useless. This affected my entire army. I have no desire to convert or change the models, or invest in new ones. 

 

The game is badly balanced, receives less updates, requires a bigger financial investment, and has a much smaller player base than the main 40k. 

 

I would need to see something staggering to keep me interested as I'm currently pondering the sale of my army (and annoyingly it's the best one I ever painted).

I like the core rules well enough, but the game is the antithesis to casual pick-up games.

Edited yesterday at 11:36 AM by Orange Knight

[Gaz Taylor]

19 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

but the game is the antithesis to casual pick-up games.

I think the days of casual pick up games outside of 40K are long gone. But then with family and work, I don't get chance to game much anyway, which is why I'm looking more at Heresy

[Chapter Master Valrak]

1 hour ago, Robbienw said:

New MK4 and Rapier platforms in plastic would be most welcome!

 

New Rapiers are coming, I talked about them in this video a tad back.  It was its own box IRC that had two build options, Bolter and Grav loadout.

Edited yesterday at 12:06 PM by Chapter Master Valrak

[Vassakov]

My assumption would be that we'll find out at the end of the month at Adepticon, with a targeted June release?

 

And I'll be happy with a decent FAQ/Balance pass and call it a new edition - Dreadnoughts could do with a tone down and personally I'd like to see Artificer armour restricted to Elites and HQs, rather than every basic sergeant being able to tank stuff on a 2+. Only issue is if it invalidates the Liber Books, which are... not cheap. 

 

Although all of this could be solved by... DIGITAL RULES FOR ALL YOUR GAMES GW. IT IS THE YEAR OF THE EMPEROR 2025, PLEASE JUST EMBRACE THE INTERWEBS PROPERLY. 

[WrathOfTheLion]

I suspect they decided fairly early on to do a followup new edition, for a few reasons. Notably, the likely original designer for 2E left a bit prior to its release. It'll be interesting to see how they handle 3E rules, more of the same or cleaned up some.

 

Definitely sucks when you have stuff get nerfed, although playing CSM in 40k has long numbed me to that :(

[Joe]

26 minutes ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

Notably, the likely original designer for 2E left a bit prior to its release.

 

Anuj left (and wasn't the project lead by any stretch, apparently). Neil Wylie and Andy Hoare are still there, although Andy's a bit spread across multiple systems these days (Necromunda, Old World, etc).

[Xirix]

54 minutes ago, Chapter Master Valrak said:

 

New Rapiers are coming, I talked about them in this video a tad back.  It was its own box IRC that had two build options, Bolter and Grav loadout.

I hope that's not true, since that's only half the loadout. Though maybe the remaining options will come later and they couldn't fit all four on the sprue.

[Tokugawa]

How would a modern-scaled 30K scout model look like?

[Mogger351]

Just now, Tokugawa said:

How would a modern-scaled 30K scout model look like?

Like the 40k one but 3mm shorter I guess?

[Dalmyth]

Part of me really hopes, no matter how unlikely it really is, that we're gonna move to a four year cycle between 40K, HH, AOS, and TOW. I would still prefer a longer cycle, but an extra year would be far better than the churn we have right now.

[Stitch5000]

2 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

I don't know if I will invest in the new Heresy.

 

I certainly have no desire to purchase another massive box. I currently have a 4 thousand point Heresy army - fully assembled and painted consistently throughout. It was the last massive hobby project I undertook before I became a dad. One of the linchpin units in my force was heavily nerfed, and then never re-ballanced so it's pretty useless. This affected my entire army. I have no desire to convert or change the models, or invest in new ones. 

 

The game is badly balanced, receives less updates, requires a bigger financial investment, and has a much smaller player base than the main 40k. 

 

I would need to see something staggering to keep me interested as I'm currently pondering the sale of my army (and annoyingly it's the best one I ever painted).

I like the core rules well enough, but the game is the antithesis to casual pick-up games.

I hate to say it but if you expect to just play the same army every time you have a game, that's probably why you aren't having any fun. The Nigel Stillman method was debunked some time ago. 

[Evil Eye]

1 hour ago, Gaz Taylor said:

I think the days of casual pick up games outside of 40K are long gone

Honestly I kinda wish they'd just end altogether. The need for games to be spontaneously playable by complete strangers in a random venue has made any kind of mechanical depth or extensive customization impossible, to the point I'd argue the push for the "pick-up game" as the norm has been a massive contributor to 40K's decline in quality and the advent of decreased customization and overly-simplistic rules.

 

1 hour ago, Vassakov said:

Although all of this could be solved by... DIGITAL RULES FOR ALL YOUR GAMES GW. IT IS THE YEAR OF THE EMPEROR 2025, PLEASE JUST EMBRACE THE INTERWEBS PROPERLY. 

I'd rather they didn't actually, and as someone who likes books and doesn't want them replaced by documents that require a tablet to properly use and thinks 40K etc could do with less patches and rebalancing I'd be completely alienated by a transition to full-digital rules. The problem isn't a refusal to go digital, it's a refusal to design and release a finished product. This isn't exclusive to GW by the way; if you look at videogames the advent of digital patches has allowed devs to sell perpetually unfinished games and just fix them later (eventually if at all). And worse, the rise of games-as-a-service means that when these games are no longer supported by the developer or publisher, they become unplayable. Imagine if GW decided to lock the rules behind an app that needed a constant internet connection- edition churn (which I'm convinced is intentional and has nothing to do with balance or actually improving the game) would become inescapable, to the point where even if GW managed to put out a fantastic ruleset, the moment they decided to stop supporting it? Those rules would be unplayable and lost forever.

Digital distribution has its place for certain things (I'm a big fan of 3D printing, which is absolutely dependent on digital distribution). But for wargame rules, something that existed before the internet and fundamentally don't need any kind of electronic element at all, I feel it's superfluous and would be irrelevant if the designers were actually intent on designing a finished, long-lasting product. Which they're not, but that's not going to be solved by digital rulesets, and might even be worsened.

[Nephaston]

52 minutes ago, Xirix said:

I hope that's not true, since that's only half the loadout. Though maybe the remaining options will come later and they couldn't fit all four on the sprue.

So probably like they did the different configurations of dreadnoughts,

[LSM]

5 hours ago, Marshal Loss said:

...Saturnine Terminators are inevitable given they're listed in the HH 2.0 rulebook timeline, and why wouldn't they throw a big hook into their giant expensive box.

 

Could be a case of people working off of different definitions?

 

(ie. one sees new Terminators and refers to them as Saturnine, perhaps correctly, while another assumes that "Saturnine" refers to the egg-man TDA and so says that Saturnine is not a thing, as there is no egg-man TDA coming. Both statements are true, if the two sources have different definitions of what Saturnine Terminators are.)

[Stitch5000]

2 hours ago, Evil Eye said:

I'd rather they didn't actually, and as someone who likes books and doesn't want them replaced by documents that require a tablet to properly use and thinks 40K etc could do with less patches and rebalancing I'd be completely alienated by a transition to full-digital rules. The problem isn't a refusal to go digital, it's a refusal to design and release a finished product. This isn't exclusive to GW by the way; if you look at videogames the advent of digital patches has allowed devs to sell perpetually unfinished games and just fix them later (eventually if at all). And worse, the rise of games-as-a-service means that when these games are no longer supported by the developer or publisher, they become unplayable. Imagine if GW decided to lock the rules behind an app that needed a constant internet connection- edition churn (which I'm convinced is intentional and has nothing to do with balance or actually improving the game) would become inescapable, to the point where even if GW managed to put out a fantastic ruleset, the moment they decided to stop supporting it? Those rules would be unplayable and lost forever.

Absolutely fantastic point, well made.

[Vassakov]

2 hours ago, Evil Eye said:

I'd rather they didn't actually, and as someone who likes books and doesn't want them replaced by documents that require a tablet to properly use and thinks 40K etc could do with less patches and rebalancing I'd be completely alienated by a transition to full-digital rules. The problem isn't a refusal to go digital, it's a refusal to design and release a finished product. This isn't exclusive to GW by the way; if you look at videogames the advent of digital patches has allowed devs to sell perpetually unfinished games and just fix them later (eventually if at all). And worse, the rise of games-as-a-service means that when these games are no longer supported by the developer or publisher, they become unplayable. Imagine if GW decided to lock the rules behind an app that needed a constant internet connection- edition churn (which I'm convinced is intentional and has nothing to do with balance or actually improving the game) would become inescapable, to the point where even if GW managed to put out a fantastic ruleset, the moment they decided to stop supporting it? Those rules would be unplayable and lost forever.

 

So, I actually think there's a fundamental difference here between games-as-a-service and something like 40k. 40k isn't intended as a "finished" product. Probably the closest you can argue is Index-hammer where all the rules were reset. But, obviously, that has a few issues all of its own. 

You're absolutely right that edition churn is 100% intentional - it's actually their core business model, really. There is no such thing as "finished" 40k as otherwise GW would be out of business, so the constant release of rules and models is basically the norm. 9th didn't end with Arks of Omen, it just moved into 10th. Similarly, I'd actually argue that decoupling physical rules releases from models is already happening - most of the Kill Teams have been "grandfathered" into 40k via the app or a downloadable pdf outside of the codex release schedule, and I don't think it would necessarily be an issue for units to be released more regularly outside of the Codex/supplement model.

 

I'm also one of those people who'll happily do an RTT or a GT most months, so a degree of churn is actually healthy both for me and for the wider scene - I really, really don't think anyone wants to go back to the days of factions having no really rules support over entire editions and similarly, sometimes rules just don't land the way the designers intended. We know that GW's rules writing is tethered to a 6-8 month lead time at least for printing, and we've seen where that can lead. 

 

For what it's worth, the current app based version of the rules is the easiest time I've ever had playing 40k, and whilst the way in which the errata's are incorporated could definitely do with a tweak, it made clarifying a couple of things with my opponents much easier.

 

And before anyone goes "oh, you're one of those guys..." the two specific cases were letting my opponents know about a) Marines Oath of Moment changes for +1 to wound and b) that Imperium Primarchs can, in fact, now walk through ruins. I was playing Word Bearers. 

[Xenith]

5 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

I don't know if I will invest in the new Heresy.

I like the core rules well enough, but the game is the antithesis to casual pick-up games.

 

That's a shame - my experience is the complete opposite.

 

In my local meta, for heresy, most people are playing for fun and actively don't take the most powerfull stuff (I havent seen or used a lascannon HSS on the table since 2023) and games are 3k, unless we deviate and say "2.5k?". We both play from the main rulebook. Missions are simple enough.

 

With 40k, you have to have the discussion on expectation beforehand, whether someone is bringing a competitive or fun list, whether they managed to get a set of the perpetually sold out pariah nexus cards, or if they're on the leviathan rules pack. 

 

These are all pre-arranged games, actually. I can't imagine a pick up 40k game of 40k with a stranger anymore, too stressful. 

[Loishy]

I have to admit that I have mixed feelings about this future release. A big box full of plastic is almost always cool, the Mk2 is finally coming and they are going to add some diversity to my future Iron Warriors and a new weapon / unit for HH, why not.

 

But on the other hand, seeing HH also taking the path of a 3-year cycle is disappointing, and I really don’t like the saturnine terminator armor. I don’t understand why they bring that one back. Correct me if I’m wrong but since the first black library novel on the Horus heresy or the first big black book from forgeworld, this armor is almost never mentioned. Is it a particularly loved one by the community ?

As some have already said, I would have preferred to see a resculpted cataphractii and/or a Castraferrum.

[01RTB01]

I'll aim to offload the mkii. I stretched to some mkiii for Saul's loyalists but there's no way I'm running mkii for EC. However, I'm glad for those that have been after plastic mkii for ages.

 

Hopeful the saturnine stuff looks grand. However, I'd be financially thankful to not have any interest lol.

[Ahzek451]

More models, groovy. My involvement in Heresy is mostly focused to collecting and building a stupidly large legion. I hope GW recognizes the spirit of the game that Heresy has and any potential new ruleset does not go too far out of bounds. Recognizing that generally speaking the heresy crowd and 40k crowd are not quite interchangeable. But, I spend more time building then playing and paying an older edition is always an option. Unless it is jam packed with new lore and artwork, I will likely skip on any new ruleset. I miss the content that was in the 1st edition books. Miss you Mr. Bligh. 

[Nephaston]

I wonder if they make saturnine something completely new, or if they go with one of the old school designs.

Egginator, while commonly associated with the name, doesn't look that great for infantry, but maybe as a dreadnought design related to the contemptor.

 

This one looks like a proto-Indomitus, but since they already have rules for indomitus and most likely just want you to use the 40k kits for that. If they go with something classic, Ihope it is not this one.

 

MAXIMUM FROWN. My personal favourite. Put some tassets and some lightning bolts on it and I'm all in.

 

[01RTB01]

There's this variant too which could be fun.

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

7 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

I don't know if I will invest in the new Heresy.

 

I certainly have no desire to purchase another massive box. I currently have a 4 thousand point Heresy army - fully assembled and painted consistently throughout. It was the last massive hobby project I undertook before I became a dad. One of the linchpin units in my force was heavily nerfed, and then never re-ballanced so it's pretty useless. This affected my entire army. I have no desire to convert or change the models, or invest in new ones. 

 

The game is badly balanced, receives less updates, requires a bigger financial investment, and has a much smaller player base than the main 40k. 

 

I would need to see something staggering to keep me interested as I'm currently pondering the sale of my army (and annoyingly it's the best one I ever painted).

I like the core rules well enough, but the game is the antithesis to casual pick-up games.

Your army will mostly spend their time in the glass cabinet. So having fewer games in a year shouldn´t be too bad. Besides you have entered a new phase in your life since becoming a dad. I don´t think you would be thrilled chasing teenagers in a FLGS or GW store to have a game. Either you have a good friend in your age group where you can play at home or you do solo games a few times a year. I have picked the last option as my last tabletop game with another person was way before Covid.

[SkimaskMohawk]

After the disaster of 2nds roll out and LIs shovel ware status, I don't have any faith in the heresy team to fix anything.

 

These people couldn't even maintain version control across the various languages and production runs of their rules, let alone address it. Couldn't even care to point cost properly after changing stuff from ap2 to 4 lol.