Heresy 3.0 in Spring/Summer

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

8 hours ago, Nephaston said:

The mighty Homo Ovum.

 

Speaking of Eggman, I may have found the design prototype for Egginators.

This is peak design destined to cross-polinate into another GW game namely Blood Bowl:

"Ladies and Gentlemen, I am proud to announce that none other than Mungo Moustache, the star of the Eggmonton Oilers, just arrived on the pitch."

[Gorgoff]

Because a couple of you already said that they'd be (rightfully) angry if the new edition invalidates existing armies I may also say something about it.

 

It will.

The last edition rendered my planned and build Vlka Fenryka army useless because it changed some rules. 

I couldn't legally play it the way I wanted to and this is exactly what will happen with the next edition. 

So brace yourselves because they always change the system in a way that people are forced to buy new models. 

 

One rumor said that we won't see Rite of War as a mechanic anymore and that it somehow will be replaced by something else. That is a strong indicator that all armies which are based on an ROW could be illegal in 3ed.

I guess if true it will hit differend build in different ways of course. An Armoured Spearhead will most definitely have to worry more than say a Hammer of Olympia.

That was one of the worst rumours I've seen about the new edition. Everything they change about how many units you can take is a possible way of making exiwting army illegal and thus hitting their players. 

When I think about GW tendency to overcorrect issues with a game or army lists I think it is quite likely that problematic things like Thunderhammer or lascannons could possible get nerfed to death again as well. That is also a concern I have.

Everyone build their terminators with Thunderhammers at the moment for example but we didn't saw a big thunderhammer upgrade kit for them, now did we? 

Could mean nothing but could quite possible mean that they make it terrible again. Same thing applies for snipers.

 

In the end I don't want to be so negative about it because these rumours so far had been frustratingly thin and vague so who knows what's going to happen. We will see I guess. 

 

Just hope for the best. 

Edited March 22 by Gorgoff

[Astartes Consul]

I remain deeply sceptical about the rumours that 3.0 will involve a complete system overhaul. Not because GW isn't capable of that, but because such a shift hasn't happened in any of the other games the Specialist Studio (or whatever it's called these days) has responsibility for. Even the step up from 1.0 to 2.0, which did change some mechanics and list-building options, kept the core of the game based on the old 7th edition foundations.

 

 

[No Foes Remain]

3 minutes ago, Astartes Consul said:

I remain deeply sceptical about the rumours that 3.0 will involve a complete system overhaul. Not because GW isn't capable of that, but because such a shift hasn't happened in any of the other games the Specialist Studio (or whatever it's called these days) has responsibility for. Even the step up from 1.0 to 2.0, which did change some mechanics and list-building options, kept the core of the game based on the old 7th edition foundations.

 

 

I agree with you, brother. GW knows that 30k is popular, they aren't stupid enough to shoot themselves in the foot by changing it too much. The rumours of it turning into a alt-40k system makes no sense either as why would GW, as a business, have two game systems that have very similar rules. Rites of War have also been a staple for 30k since the very start and they work quite well, so them being removed makes no sense either.

We all know GW makes strange decisions at times, but even I don't think GW will be that moronic to change the core as to what 30k is.

[Astartes Consul]

38 minutes ago, No Foes Remain said:

I agree with you, brother. GW knows that 30k is popular, they aren't stupid enough to shoot themselves in the foot by changing it too much. The rumours of it turning into a alt-40k system makes no sense either as why would GW, as a business, have two game systems that have very similar rules. Rites of War have also been a staple for 30k since the very start and they work quite well, so them being removed makes no sense either.

We all know GW makes strange decisions at times, but even I don't think GW will be that moronic to change the core as to what 30k is.

 

Also, I can't think of any logical reason for GW to remove Rites of War. They are a sales incentive, forcing players to run certain units to get the best out of or even fulfil the basic requirements of the RoW. Even most of the generic RoW require you to pick up a couple of extra units on what you might reasonably have in a core, 2,000ish point collection.

[No Foes Remain]

4 minutes ago, Astartes Consul said:

 

Also, I can't think of any logical reason for GW to remove Rites of War. They are a sales incentive, forcing players to run certain units to get the best out of or even fulfil the basic requirements of the RoW. Even most of the generic RoW require you to pick up a couple of extra units on what you might reasonably have in a core, 2,000ish point collection.

Indeed and in some Legion cases they are the Legion-specific resin units, which are more expensive than the basic infantry, which you'd also need a few of to make a decent list. Admittedly, a few are missing (looking at you Grey Hunters/Slayers and Templars) due to their reliance on the older kits.

[Waaagh?]

I just want new plastic toys to play with. If the new rules suck well that's fine I will just use second edition.

[Unknown Legionnaire]

3 hours ago, No Foes Remain said:

I GW knows that 30k is popular, they aren't stupid enough to shoot themselves in the foot by changing it too much.

 

And that's the point where you are wrong.

 

They are. They most definitely are. 

 

Did so in the past, and are very likely to do it again, in one way or another.

 

But, yeah, let's brace for impact and hope for the best ... 

[Gorgoff]

3 hours ago, Astartes Consul said:

 

Also, I can't think of any logical reason for GW to remove Rites of War. 

Too complicated. 

Why did they remove wound allocation the way it used to work? 

They want to streamline their product to make it more accessible for more players. Just think off how much easier to learn 40k is. The new player base is used to have very simple, streamlined rules and it could ve that GW thinks it is time to make the game attractive to those peopleas well. 

After all they already have our money so they need new players.

I don't know if they do that but that could be a reason.

The rumor stated that they want to do a system aimilar to the battle boxes for 40k. I have no clue how the correct name is but you know what I mean. 

The rumour goes that this will be the base how to make armies. 

I m sceptical if they do that to 30k but it isn't completely out of the window. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

Ya the entirety of modern 40k and aos has been streamlined to capture a wider customer base, which it has. Stratagems were hugely popular which is why they made it into aos 2nd edition and eventually heresy.

 

Nothing's off the table

[Mandragola]

On the point about invalidating old armies or at least forcing you to change them, yes it will. Even the most minor changes would change the balance of the game. 
 

Look at what happened when they turned dreadnoughts into creatures with wounds instead of vehicles, for example. Overnight they took ownership of the midfield of most games, making weapons that could deal with them suddenly at a huge premium. Terminators, which used to smash dreadnoughts but now didn’t, were seen a lot less. 
 

I can’t say what the changes will be this time but I’m sure they’ll make us all change our armies, perhaps radically. 
 

That said, I don’t think they’d want to remove options. If anything , GW tends to remove restrictions and open up more options as they bring in new editions. 40K lets you take more or less anything you like, after all. It’s possible that rites of war are going because they’re no-longer needed.

 

It’s interesting how little concrete information we have, if there’s going to be a summer release. Last time I think we’d seen the back of the AoD box many months ahead of official news coming out. 

Edited March 24 by Mandragola

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

43 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Ya the entirety of modern 40k and aos has been streamlined to capture a wider customer base, which it has. Stratagems were hugely popular which is why they made it into aos 2nd edition and eventually heresy.

 

Nothing's off the table

30K & 40K have different customers. GW knows this. So changing 30K to the formula "Simplified, not simple" will rub the 30K crowd the wrong way.

[Mogger351]

2 minutes ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

30K & 40K have different customers. GW knows this. So changing 30K to the formula "Simplified, not simple" will rub the 30K crowd the wrong way.

And they won't care if it expands the sales base.

[No Foes Remain]

10 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

And they won't care if it expands the sales base.

At the cost of their current sales base? Very big risk on GW's part, especially to have two similar games systems whose models they don't want you to cross over with.

[Marshal Rohr]

1 hour ago, Mogger351 said:

And they won't care if it expands the sales base.

It won’t expand the sales base because it sucks. Trying for a hat trick of ruining their games to appeal to the lowest common denominator feels like exactly what they will do. Surely this time will work! 

[SkimaskMohawk]

1 hour ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

30K & 40K have different customers. GW knows this. So changing 30K to the formula "Simplified, not simple" will rub the 30K crowd the wrong way.

 

I mean, stratagems in 30k rubbed me the wrong way but they still did it because it widens the appeal, and a wider appeal makes them a ton of money.

 

They did it with fantasy to AoS. They did it with 7th to 8th and 9th to 10th 40k. It's a proven method to them, and that's why they keep doing it.

Edited March 22 by SkimaskMohawk

[Ripper.McGuirl]

I don’t expect them to do a more “modern” system for 30k because that’s not what they did with Old World. I think they are purposely going after the Old People like me with heresy, and the people that prefer the newer game design with 40k.

I think they like having the systems so delineated. 

Edited March 22 by Ripper.McGuirl

[Gorgoff]

Hopefully they change aomething about wound allocation. A lot of weapons now are more or less useless if in the target uni is a shmuck with tiffy armour. Would be nice if they take a different approach. 

[TheArtilleryman]

44 minutes ago, Gorgoff said:

Hopefully they change aomething about wound allocation. A lot of weapons now are more or less useless if in the target uni is a shmuck with tiffy armour. Would be nice if they take a different approach. 

lol I have literally no idea what this means 

[soviet1337]

13 minutes ago, TheArtilleryman said:

lol I have literally no idea what this means 

I believe he means the tactic of putting all the AP3 hits on a sergeant wearing 2+ artificer armour, but I've also never seen it abbreviated like that before. 

[Mogger351]

1 hour ago, Marshal Rohr said:

It won’t expand the sales base because it sucks. Trying for a hat trick of ruining their games to appeal to the lowest common denominator feels like exactly what they will do. Surely this time will work! 

 

3 hours ago, No Foes Remain said:

At the cost of their current sales base? Very big risk on GW's part, especially to have two similar games systems whose models they don't want you to cross over with.

 

Honestly I mean no offense by this, but my personal understanding is that the HH base is a combination of "whales" and 3d printers historically, with more of the latter.

 

Will they risk upsetting the balance to draw in a larger number of younger players in a repeated cycle? Quite probably. As noted, it's worked for the other games, why wouldn't they stick to what they know?

 

I think this new edition will be quite telling for the future of the game and it's cursed if it does and if it doesn't. Low sales = abandoned and high sales = push towards 40kification imo.

[01RTB01]

1 hour ago, Gorgoff said:

Hopefully they change aomething about wound allocation. A lot of weapons now are more or less useless if in the target uni is a shmuck with tiffy armour. Would be nice if they take a different approach. 

It's high time that artificer armour became kept for elites and not every Tom, Dick and Harry wearing it. Seeing tac squad sergeants eating a ton of fire is weird imo. Hopefully a) artificer armour goes for sergeants and/or b) as you say, would allocation changes.

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

19 hours ago, soviet1337 said:

I believe he means the tactic of putting all the AP3 hits on a sergeant wearing 2+ artificer armour, but I've also never seen it abbreviated like that before. 

Yep. Sgt. in said armour cosplays as Wonder Woman (WW) and deflects all incoming shots like she does in the comics with her divine bracelets. In essence  game design and a feature which I immediately deleted from the game. It´s fine to enjoy WW in a comic but don´t drag her into 30K.

Edited March 23 by Firedrake Cordova

[Gorgoff]

49 minutes ago, TheArtilleryman said:

lol I have literally no idea what this means 

Like the others already wrote. 

ArTIFIcer armor. In short: Tiffy armor. 

 

First and foremost it drags the game down that people can always allocate wounds on characters if they want to and it is also too good. That it is unrealistic comes on top. 

 

I liked the system of an older 40k verwion where one has to put a wound on every visible model in a target unit before they could put a second wound on a model. This felt quite immersive. 

Another way would be to wxclude attached characters from wound allocation until noone else is alive. 

[Unknown Legionnaire]

43 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

I think this new edition will be quite telling for the future of the game and it's cursed if it does and if it doesn't. Low sales = abandoned and high sales = push towards 40kification imo.

 

Gods yes, I would  love  for them to abandon the game and leave their creatively bankrupt fingers off of it ! 

 

We have enough models / sets / books / conversion opportunities to keep dedicated folks busy. 

 

And don't tell me abandoned games die ... people are also still playing Mordheim and 1st ed. Blood Bowl after over 25+ years.