Latest BA Balance Update

[Jolemai]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/goxjzhii/warhammer-40000-balance-dataslate-heres-whats-changed-in-the-41st-millennium/

 

Rage-Fuelled Warrior increased in points 

Bloodless Angels no more

Some Death Company units reduced in points

 

Thoughts?

[Karhedron]

Given that I have just finished paining a Captain to use RFW and a Phobos Lt to lead my Reivers, I am feeling slightly salty. I haven't looked at the DC points reductions yet.

 

The loss of Bloodless Angels is a shame but not entirely surprising. I hadn't got around to trying it yet but my vanilla Space Wolves were appreciating it. 

[Indy Techwisp]

Probably worth a mention that you also now cannot sidestep the "No Divergent Chapter Marines" thing to get the OoM buff by running LAG with no BA.

 

It's now locked to both Codex: SM detachments (and their Grotmas Detachment) as well as no Divergent Chapter Marines.

[DemonGSides]

Overall a boring update. The death company no one uses got reduced, and big bricks of them got reduced even further. All 3 people who are playing Lost Brotherhood will politely clap before realizing it didn't save them enough points to DO anything with.

 

We needed a drop on jump pack dc by like 10 points and we could stand a drop on some of our heroes.

 

Baal Predator being the only predator to not get slapped with an increase is interesting, but probably indicative that they've forgotten about it entirely. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

13 hours ago, Indy Techwisp said:

Probably worth a mention that you also now cannot sidestep the "No Divergent Chapter Marines" thing to get the OoM buff by running LAG with no BA.

 

It's now locked to both Codex: SM detachments (and their Grotmas Detachment) as well as no Divergent Chapter Marines.

That’s what they meant by no bloodless angels 

[Ash]

Happy to get through the balance update relatively unscathed.   BGV points reduction balances the increased cost of Vindicators. Rage Fuelled is up but i'm good with that. 

BGV are a unit that really look interesting in either LAG or AI for Blood Angels as we can ramp their offensive output well.

BGV re-roll all hits in AI if with an attached character, that'll be a Judiciar.  I look forward to trying 6 plus Judiciar in an Impulsor

Poor Poor Death Company, they could be free and you wouldn't take them, zero OC unless chaplain tax and 6+++ doesn't cut it. Intercessors or Assault Intercessors are far better.

I thought Bloodless was a rules aberration that was fun but ultimately no big loss.

 

[Karhedron]

BGVs do look very nice. I have run them before the recent price cut and they perform well. While the Judiciar is the default option, I think that a Lt with Speed of the Primarch is actually better in LAG. Lethal Hits means they can punch up into tougher targets more effectively and the ability to Fall Back and then Charge again is great for keeping our bonuses active. Speed of the Primarch gives a once-per-game Fights First which is usually all you need to deter an enemy from charging with their own melee elites.

[Ash]

Yes have run Lt with Speed Of The Primarch in AI and LAG.   Lt is 90 pts in LAG with SOTP as opposed to 20 pts less for Judiciar, who has precision and Dev wounds.  Fall back and charge is free in Angelic Inheritors with any character attached and your always going to have a character attached to BGV so only missing lethals which can be ramped up to lethal and lance for 1 CP in Angelic Inheritors. Heres the spice though.  Angelic Inheritors and fights first synergises well with BGV,  you would  set shield of the chapter for defence and let the AI give RR 1's to hit.  Your  BGV and Judiciar now have full re-rolls to hit on fights first  and RR 1's to wound when charged.

Edited March 13 by Ash
Grammar

[Karhedron]

Agreed, in IA the Judiciar is the better choice. The Lt + SOTP is LAG-specific (indeed it has to be since SOTP doesn't exist in IA).

[Ash]

Yup

Edited March 13 by Ash

[Darwhine]

Hello.

Are there any of you who have considered starting the Lost Bethren detachment? 

With death companies at 85 points for 5 and 160 for 10, I find them very interesting. At 160 points, we are on the same cost as 6 bladeguards. 

In terms of impact, it is clearly the DC that wins, even in terms of resistance to saturation thanks to their FNP at 6.

 

I also discovered a very nice trick: One of the major problems of the detachment is the activation condition of its rule, you have to lose figurines. 

But the DC passing battle line they can have an inquisitor .. and this inquisitor can itself give an invulnerable at 6+. 

 

On paper it is not great since on 3+ you have to be wounded by a PA -4 at half, ima for it to be effective.

BUT the rules say that if you have multiple saves you MUST choose one of them. 

That is to say that it is possible to "regulate" the DC losses by choosing the 6+ invulnerable rather than the 3+ in order to cause a loss and thus pass the DC levels, thus unlocking the S:cuss: 2 and the complete reroll of wounds. 

Coupled with the final retribution stratagem, this can really make for a superb combo !

 

What do you think ?

[DemonGSides]

1 hour ago, Darwhine said:

Hello.

Are there any of you who have considered starting the Lost Bethren detachment? 

With death companies at 85 points for 5 and 160 for 10, I find them very interesting. At 160 points, we are on the same cost as 6 bladeguards. 

In terms of impact, it is clearly the DC that wins, even in terms of resistance to saturation thanks to their FNP at 6.

 

I also discovered a very nice trick: One of the major problems of the detachment is the activation condition of its rule, you have to lose figurines. 

But the DC passing battle line they can have an inquisitor .. and this inquisitor can itself give an invulnerable at 6+. 

 

On paper it is not great since on 3+ you have to be wounded by a PA -4 at half, ima for it to be effective.

BUT the rules say that if you have multiple saves you MUST choose one of them. 

That is to say that it is possible to "regulate" the DC losses by choosing the 6+ invulnerable rather than the 3+ in order to cause a loss and thus pass the DC levels, thus unlocking the S:cuss: 2 and the complete reroll of wounds. 

Coupled with the final retribution stratagem, this can really make for a superb combo !

 

What do you think ?

 

I misunderstood what was being explained; I think this actually does work.  I don't think it's worth it, tbh, for 55 points, but it technically works.

Probably just easier to include a plasma pistol and hope for the best.

Edited March 18 by DemonGSides

[Karhedron]

I agree. Pack maximum plasma pistols and overcharge all the time. If you don't roll any overheats, at least you are getting some good shooting in.

 

I am just not convinced by DC with Bolters. Regular Intercessors get OC2, ObjSec and 4 shots per turn on their bolt rifles. That is a lot of useful stuff to trade for a 6+++ and free Overwatch/HI once per turn.

[Darwhine]

On 3/18/2025 at 9:54 PM, DemonGSides said:

  I don't think it's worth it, tbh, for 55 points, but it technically works.

Probably just easier to include a plasma pistol and hope for the best.

For exemple: if you pile in or if you are charged by a tank, you ll be happy to have à 6+ sav to do against their PA0 close combat armor trak.

That may be the difference between stay stuck in combat (you cant fall back with DC if you are not in range of a chaplin) and destroy the vehicule because you take a wound (wich unlock S:cuss: 1 + reroll 1 to wounds on your unit).

 

On 3/18/2025 at 11:47 PM, Karhedron said:

I am just not convinced by DC with Bolters. Regular Intercessors get OC2, ObjSec and 4 shots per turn on their bolt rifles. That is a lot of useful stuff to trade for a 6+++ and free Overwatch/HI once per turn.

With an inquisitor, each time you ll use overwatch or HI for free, you ll gain a CP on a 3+.

[Karhedron]

13 hours ago, Darwhine said:

With an inquisitor, each time you ll use overwatch or HI for free, you ll gain a CP on a 3+.

 

I had missed that interaction. That is actually pretty good! 

[DemonGSides]

13 hours ago, Darwhine said:

For exemple: if you pile in or if you are charged by a tank, you ll be happy to have à 6+ sav to do against their PA0 close combat armor trak.

That may be the difference between stay stuck in combat (you cant fall back with DC if you are not in range of a chaplin) and destroy the vehicule because you take a wound (wich unlock S:cuss: 1 + reroll 1 to wounds on your unit).

 

With an inquisitor, each time you ll use overwatch or HI for free, you ll gain a CP on a 3+.

 

I think if I was ever playing death company, they'd be in cahoots with a chaplain anyways so it's a non concern of mine. And needing another book just to angle shoot a 6++ just feels silly to me as a non tournament player. 

[Karhedron]

Personally if I just want 1 or 2 datasheets, I use an online resource for them. I only buy codices for armies I play, not accessories.

[DemonGSides]

3 hours ago, Karhedron said:

Personally if I just want 1 or 2 datasheets, I use an online resource for them. I only buy codices for armies I play, not accessories.

 

I generally don't use anything other than the online resources either, but the concept of allying in a single guy from a different faction for a nominal benefit was more of my kvetch than the monetary cost or ease of use.  It doesn't feel good from my perspective.

Edited March 21 by DemonGSides

[Darwhine]

On 3/21/2025 at 2:18 PM, DemonGSides said:

but the concept of allying in a single guy from a different faction for a nominal benefit was more of my kvetch than the monetary cost or ease of use.  It doesn't feel good from my perspective.

This is just an example of what the Imperial Agent Codex can bring. 

 

The Death Company scores very badly because it loses its Oc when it is too far from the chaplains; it is quite possible to take scoring units and holding objectives cheaply from the Imperial Agents. 

For 2 Inquisitors: 

-It is possible to take 2 Inquisitor Agent units at 60 points without them counting in the retinue units. 

These same agents will be able to provoke battle shock tests thanks to the skull tome or remove a battle shock on themselves. 

We can take 2 Chimeras at 70 points with them.

 

 -Its possible to take a squad of Sister of Battle with Sticky Objectives that can be split in two in an immolator.

-As well its possible to take two squads of 6 Void Man at 70 points with 2 other Rhinos; 

Or even better: two exaction squads of 11 figurines at 90 points who will be able to bring back their figurines thanks to their medic-kit. 

 

In total we can bring 44 figurines of agents and 5 transport vehicles to the Blood Angel army, for a total of 915 points all included. 

So no, at this stage it is not just a small addition that we can make.

 

I don't recommend taking everything; 

I think at least a little over 50% of the army needs to be able to benefit from the army trait for it to be worthwhile. 

But taking agents in full flamethrower Chimera or Exaction squads to hold the points seems perfectly appropriate to me.

[Karhedron]

Your points are valid but the Blood Angels letting an Inquisitor anywhere near the Death Company (let alone leading it) does not seem entirely fluffy. 

[Darwhine]

Unless we consider that they make sure that they are all really dead at the end of the battle..