New Balance Dataslate just dropped

[Metzombie]

9 minutes ago, Dr_Ruminahui said:

Where was this?  I seem not to have twigged onto this or what they are.

Here

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/hajnar5i/quarterly-detachments-new-rules-for-the-tau-empire-orks-and-adeptus-custodes/

Plus one in the Deamon Index for Belakor.

[Nephaston]

12 minutes ago, Dr_Ruminahui said:

Where was this?  I seem not to have twigged onto this or what they are.

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/hajnar5i/quarterly-detachments-new-rules-for-the-tau-empire-orks-and-adeptus-custodes/

for tau, orks, and custodes

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/jl3uxdbu/index-chaos-daemons-updated-datasheets-and-a-new-detachment/

for daemons, their new detachment is in the index

[Evil Eye]

GW's obsession with only having models be useable in the "correct" system strikes again I see. Marvellous.

[Karhedron]

4 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

Which you won't do because they're better off being as cheap as possible. 

 

On the whole I agree but there have been more than a few occasions where I have wished for a bit of melee on my HInts. If only the Sergeant could take a power fist.

Edited Wednesday at 08:59 PM by Karhedron

[WrathOfTheLion]

11 hours ago, Joe said:

• If your Army Faction is World Eaters, you can only include Khorne Legiones Daemonica units using these rules.
• If your Army Faction is Thousand Sons, you can only include Tzeentch Legiones Daemonica units using these rules.
• If your Army Faction is Death Guard, you can only include Nurgle Legiones Daemonica units using these rules.
• If your Warlord is Lucius the Eternal, you can only include Slaanesh Legiones Daemonica units using these rules.

Games Workshop, we need to talk.

Since the Emperor's Children standalone codex isn't out, the current rules in Codex: Chaos Space Marines are the official ones at this moment in time. That'll change in probably a couple weeks, but that's their thought process.

[Tawnis]

Kroot got points cuts again. 

 

At what point do they become so good that the meta chasers just invest an absurd amount of money into a new army? Because at this point I have to assume that's what GW is going for. 

 

The only reason Hunting Pack hasn't won a major event yet, is because so few people play it. The detachment was very strong two data slates ago, I was taking on top tier lists and players with it last data slate after the last mix of nerfs and buffs, and winning more often than not. Now we've got another points cut again. Full Kroot Hunting pack is a very strong and oppressive list in the right hands. 

 

Mark my words, one of the top players is eventually going to invest in this army and handily crush an event. 

[ThePenitentOne]

Man, I gotta build my Kroot and get in on this.

[HeadlessCross]

4 hours ago, Tawnis said:

Kroot got points cuts again. 

 

At what point do they become so good that the meta chasers just invest an absurd amount of money into a new army? Because at this point I have to assume that's what GW is going for. 

 

The only reason Hunting Pack hasn't won a major event yet, is because so few people play it. The detachment was very strong two data slates ago, I was taking on top tier lists and players with it last data slate after the last mix of nerfs and buffs, and winning more often than not. Now we've got another points cut again. Full Kroot Hunting pack is a very strong and oppressive list in the right hands. 

 

Mark my words, one of the top players is eventually going to invest in this army and handily crush an event. 

Kroot lack real firepower even if you decide to use Vespid. Mobility is great but not without killing power behind it. 

 

That Rampagers are just good is another topic. 

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

These constant updates bother me to no end. I get why the do them, but it so hard to keep track of them. A single Chapter Approved book annually compiling FAQS and errata would be sufficient for casual gaming and then these sorts of updates could be included three monthly in a tournament pack they could release for the metachasers and the hyper competitive scene.

Edited yesterday at 03:21 AM by FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants

[Redcomet]

3 hours ago, FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants said:

These constant updates bother me to no end. I get why the do them, but it so hard to keep track of them. A single Chapter Approved book annually compiling FAQS and errata would be sufficient for casual gaming and then these sorts of updates could be included three monthly in a tournament pack they could release for the metachasers and the hyper competitive scene.

It is a substantial part of why I stopped playing. 

[HeadlessCross]

3 hours ago, FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants said:

These constant updates bother me to no end. I get why the do them, but it so hard to keep track of them. A single Chapter Approved book annually compiling FAQS and errata would be sufficient for casual gaming and then these sorts of updates could be included three monthly in a tournament pack they could release for the metachasers and the hyper competitive scene.

Three months is not "constant updates" objectively. It isn't like these updates are hidden either. 

13 minutes ago, Redcomet said:

It is a substantial part of why I stopped playing. 

Yeah, the old days where armies went years without a balance patch were so much better. 

[Mogger351]

Being in the last 1/3 of the edition, it does feel we're back at the race to the bottom on point values again.

 

Regards casually tracking things, people might not like it but their app is good at automatically updating if you aren't fussed about using a dead tree.

Edited yesterday at 08:52 AM by Mogger351

[Xenith]

5 hours ago, FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants said:

These constant updates bother me to no end. I get why the do them, but it so hard to keep track of them. A single Chapter Approved book annually compiling FAQS and errata would be sufficient for casual gaming and then these sorts of updates could be included three monthly in a tournament pack they could release for the metachasers and the hyper competitive scene.

 

Come join us in heresy. Only minor faq's in the last 3 years, otherwise rules and balance has largely remained unchanged (somethings unbalanced but moderated by the community). The scale of the update in summer will give an indication as to the type of game. 

[Magos Takatus]

I got about three games out of my Taktikal Brigade before the nerfs came in. Since both the Shokk Attak Gun Mek and the Mek Kaptin have gone up in points, I'll probably have to shed an entire squad from my army, because cutting wargear won't do anything right now.  I mean, it's not as bad as the absolute state the Adeptus Mechanicus was left in for a while, but it does irritate me somewhat. I am glad they at least have Legends rules for Zagstruk, though the lack of synergy with a detachment that suits him perfectly is a bit frustrating.

 

Over all it's not the end of the world for me personally, but it's a bit annoying that I barely get time to play any games to learn to use this new detachment and they are already fiddling with it.

[Emperor Ming]

Since there's so many updates now and printed codex data is often out of date when printed, guard dex is perfect example. 

 

I think i prefer the daemon dex being a online only living doc

[Tawnis]

14 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

Kroot lack real firepower even if you decide to use Vespid. Mobility is great but not without killing power behind it. 

 

That Rampagers are just good is another topic. 

They don't though, the strength of their army is belied by their meh looking datasheets. I've killed 5 War Dogs and and assortment of smaller Daemons in one turn before, and that was after I went second and he'd already shot up my army. The army has teeth and can hit very hard. The only things it struggles with is anything T12 or higher, and in those cases, you just ignore them and kill everything else. 

[Evil Eye]

10 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

Yeah, the old days where armies went years without a balance patch were so much better. 

Yes, they were.

[HeadlessCross]

31 minutes ago, Tawnis said:

They don't though, the strength of their army is belied by their meh looking datasheets. I've killed 5 War Dogs and and assortment of smaller Daemons in one turn before, and that was after I went second and he'd already shot up my army. The army has teeth and can hit very hard. The only things it struggles with is anything T12 or higher, and in those cases, you just ignore them and kill everything else. 

That's fine and dandy for an anecdote, but mathematically how often is that happening?

[Scribe]

On 3/12/2025 at 3:23 AM, Cpt_Reaper said:

Of note, and because it's not mentioned in the article, Karanak and the Seeker Chariot are both sent to Legends for...reasons.

 

Gross.

[Rain]

1 hour ago, Evil Eye said:

Yes, they were.

Eh, yes and no. Frequent updates don’t work nearly as well in a tabletop format as they do in online gaming, as the players need to stay on top of all of the changes, and there’s a moral hazard of people “not noticing” that their faction got nerfed. Rapid changes also lead to a rollercoaster of factions feeling suddenly better or worse to play.

 

On the other hand, Chaos Space Marines (my favorite faction) were complete garbage for editions at a time back in the old days. It’s not fun when you get bad rules, and know that you’ll probably be stuck with them for 3+ years without even a bone thrown out in the form of points drops or buffs to stats.

 

 

Edited 22 hours ago by Rain

[Ahzek451]

1 hour ago, Rain said:

 

On the other hand, Chaos Space Marines (my favorite faction) were complete garbage for editions at a time back in the old days. It’s not fun when you get bad rules, and know that you’ll probably be stuck with them for 3+ years without even a bone thrown out in the form of points drops or buffs to stats.

 

You talking after 3.5? Beginning with the era of the lash whip psychic power? If so, I member berries. 

I think GW does just enough to make a passable game system. But gives the appearance that it is a premium game system. And has for a long time. Back then GW's method was to disconnect with the fanbase and throw darts at a wall to see what worked for consumers (for the game). As Rain mentioned, this could result in years of a badly written codex or units that had little hope for love until the next edition.

GW does great at giving the appearance that all is good and healthy. Or that things are changing for the better. Whatever it takes to maintain the 3-year release cycle to give that appearance of "New", "Exciting", and "Better than ever!". However, how does that work when for the duration of your game system, you are constantly releasing rules and upending the balance each time? Is that really enough time to dial in the issues, just to reset shortly after the last book drops? To the uninitiated, what's the problem? To those that know, you know. Does GW even care about flyers and faction terrain anymore? This practice never really lets the game breath and enjoy itself(and the players for that matter). It wouldn't be so bad if after the last codex dropped, the game sat for at least a year(or 2) before the next edition snuck up and reset the clock. But, business gotta business. I mean, what was the point of all the "balance" effort up until the last codex drop? This should really be unacceptable. But it is indeed accepted. 

I just want to know one thing from a GW rule staffer. Is the Necron Obelisk an ongoing office joke, or did someone lose a bet?


 

Edited 20 hours ago by Ahzek451

[Karhedron]

4 minutes ago, Ahzek451 said:

However, how does that work when for the duration of your game system, you are constantly releasing rules and upending the balance each time?

 

Better than having things stagnant all the time. I generally paint models I like rather than chasing the meta but it does mean I have a large roster of units to rotate through. Sometimes a rules change makes a previously unviable unit interesting or encourages me to dust off an old favourite. I rarely have more than one of any unit except Battleline as I find spamming units boring. I find it much more fun for both me and my opponent if I bring an ever-changing variety of units. Regular updates helps encourage me to do that rather than just falling into a rut of just using whatever I know works.

[Rain]

5 minutes ago, Ahzek451 said:

You talking after 3.5? Beginning with the era of the lash whip psychic power? If so, I member berries. 

 

Yep. The era of 2x Slaanesh prince with wings and lash running alongside Khorne Berzerkers, running alongside obliterators, it was just a mishmash of units that didn't fit the fluff at all. Lash, being the primary crutch of that book, while very strong was (a.) a Slaanesh power and therefore only fluffy for EC and Undivided, and (b.) was anti-fun design that allowed you to move your opponent's units, something that has thankfully not really be replicated since. Lashing enemy units together and out of cover to drop plasma cannon templates from oblits on them was cheesy and awful, and did not save that book. Some of the choices were just broken, like the Khorne demon weapon which had you roll 2D6 and if either one was a 1, you lost all of your attacks, and took an unsavable wound. Which meant that in almost 1 in 3 combats your HQ did nothing and punched himself. It was such a mess.

 

Then they launched the 6th ed book, which while an overall improvement, added mandatory challenges for all characters, and had that stupid table you'd roll on that could turn your model into a spawn or a naked demon prince, for which you had to have models, or they were just dead. 6th edition also added the ally table and Taudar, but that's a separate discussion...

 

 

[Ahzek451]

10 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

Better than having things stagnant all the time. I generally paint models I like rather than chasing the meta but it does mean I have a large roster of units to rotate through. Sometimes a rules change makes a previously unviable unit interesting or encourages me to dust off an old favourite. I rarely have more than one of any unit except Battleline as I find spamming units boring. I find it much more fun for both me and my opponent if I bring an ever-changing variety of units. Regular updates helps encourage me to do that rather than just falling into a rut of just using whatever I know works.

Oh, please don't misunderstand me , I don't support a long standing stagnating system. Which is not even my proposal in my post. A healthier system (one that is allowed to breath after the dust settles) would allow for freedom to rotate through units at will instead of it being dictated or incentivized by a rapid fire rules change. In this instance, the choice falls more on you rather than GW prodding you to go in the direction they want. 

Edited 20 hours ago by Ahzek451

[Ahzek451]

6 minutes ago, Rain said:

 

Yep. The era of 2x Slaanesh prince with wings and lash running alongside Khorne Berzerkers, running alongside obliterators, it was just a mishmash of units that didn't fit the fluff at all. Lash, being the primary crutch of that book, while very strong was (a.) a Slaanesh power and therefore only fluffy for EC and Undivided, and (b.) was anti-fun design that allowed you to move your opponent's units, something that has thankfully not really be replicated since. Lashing enemy units together and out of cover to drop plasma cannon templates from oblits on them was cheesy and awful, and did not save that book. Some of the choices were just broken, like the Khorne demon weapon which had you roll 2D6 and if either one was a 1, you lost all of your attacks, and took an unsavable wound. Which meant that in almost 1 in 3 combats your HQ did nothing and punched himself. It was such a mess.

 

 

 

 

I just have to comment, you nailed it. My first exposure to that rule was a team game, my teammate laughed maniacally as he lashed a full unit of marines into a large blast demolisher template, clumped them together to fit nicely under said template,  and proceeded to have a....blast. Obviously not so much for the opponent. That was an awkward game. And a terrible rule.