Understanding the Thrill Seeker Army Rules

[Prot]

This is kind of weird to me. I've been going over the detachments/rules over time and the main rule says.... ' you cannot target a unit that was the target of another unit’s charge or attack this phase'.

 

So I get the fall back, and can't re-engage/shoot at part, but the part above is a little weird about not attacking a unit that's been attacked this phase.

 

The way I understand this, if my unit A falls back from opponent's unit X, I just have to be sure to attack opponent's unit Y FIRST with my unit A (because it fell back from another combat), and then my unit B can then attack as well? (Providing it did not fall back as well this turn.)

 

This seems to be largely an order of operation thing but that part about re-attacking after falling back just seems to create a strange situation.

[LSM]

Edit: As noted by the good Doctor below, it's very important to note that the Shooting and Charging restrictions are per Phase. (ie. Charging restrictions are independent from Shooting restrictions.)

 

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Yeah.

 

If any unit Advanced or Fell Back, it may still Shoot or Charge, but cannot target:

• The enemy unit it Fell Back from (if applicable).
• An enemy unit that that has already been targeted for Shooting or Charging by another friendly unit [edit: in that Phase].

As you note, in a hypothetical situation where friendly unit A is engaged with enemy unit X, while friendly unit B and enemy unit Y are present:

• If A makes a Fall Back move from X, it cannot Shoot or Charge X.
• If B has already Shot or Charged Y, then A can not also Shoot or Charge Y.
• If A Shoots or Charges Y, then B can also Shoot or Charge Y (provided that B has not also performed an Advance or Fall Back move that turn).

So it's vital to prioritise your units that Fell Back or Advanced, and if you plan on targeting an enemy with multiple units you need to avoid Advancing/Falling Back with more than one of them.

 

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(Markers will probably be necessary - both to remind yourself which of your units has Advanced/Fallen Back, as well as which enemy units have already been targeted, such that you don't accidentally double up.)

 

Edited March 19 by LSM

[Sume]

I did notice that this restriction is not applied to the demon datasheets if you decide to use the Carnival of Excess.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

I think both of you are missing the limiting phrase "this phase".  This is important because it keeps things that occured in the shooting phase from affecting the charging phase.

 

So, the problem arises from GW trying to put the shooting limitation and the charging limitation into one sentence, when really they are two separate (though very similar) restrictions.

 

Basically, the restriction works as follows:

 

1.  In the shooting phase, a unit that advanced cannot shoot a unit that's already been shot at that phase.

2.  In the charge phase, a unit that advanced cannot charge a unit that already been charged that phase.

 

Given that we are talking about separate phases, you can charge a unit that someone shot at earlier that turn.

 

@Elazar The Glorified has a pretty good analysis of the rule in his non-B&C blog.

Edited March 19 by Dr_Ruminahui

[Prot]

20 hours ago, Dr_Ruminahui said:

I think both of you are missing the limiting phrase "this phase".  This is important because it keeps things that occured in the shooting phase from affecting the charging phase.

 

So, the problem arises from GW trying to put the shooting limitation and the charging limitation into one sentence, when really they are two separate (though very similar) restrictions.

 

Basically, the restriction works as follows:

 

1.  In the shooting phase, a unit that advanced cannot shoot a unit that's already been shot at that phase.

2.  In the charge phase, a unit that advanced cannot charge a unit that already been charged that phase.

 

Given that we are talking about separate phases, you can charge a unit that someone shot at earlier that turn.

 

@Elazar The Glorified has a pretty good analysis of the rule in his non-B&C blog.

 

 

I don't think I missed the 'phase' part. To be more specific.... I just think it's weird because it's a timing issue and (to me) seems to only come into effect when 2 units that both fell back want to assault the same unit.

 

It seems just over done. Because until you reach that point, you simply lead with the unit that has that restriction, then charge with your (unrestricted) unit second. The only way this seems to kick in is where 2 units fall back from the same target unit at the beginning of the turn. Then this leads to an awkward situation where both units are unable to target the unit they left.

 

But if two EC units assault two different targets, in the EC next turn, they can simply fall back, and swap targets.

 

I am trying to imagine a scenario where this really becomes an issue. The only thing I can come up with is when you would ideally like to fallback from a unit, but have no other valid target or place to hide.

[Sume]

I was planning on using tokens to help keep track of this.  As it sounds like it's going to be a lot like magic with triggers on the stack.  Especially if you play Blue with all the counters.

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

@Prot, your OP left the impression that you were confused about the attacking part, not the falling back part, so I apologize for any misrepresentation.

 

Yeah, the swapping melee targets is a bit weird, but I'm not sure how they could have worded it differently to prevent that without making the rule even more convoluted or highly restrictive.

 

Thematically, the rule makes sense - when seeking their thrills, the EC have to be first otherwise they don't bother.  And, if they leave a combat, they do it do go do something new, not to dive back in.  So, they are the avant guarde, not the indecisive.

 

Now, those restrictions may be a bit silly practically, but they fit the army theme and feel a better fit than just army wide assault, advance-and-charge and fallback-and-charge.  They do add some fiddlyness (and some thought) but I suspect it will be quite manageable if you a) have a way of keeping track of who advances (tokens are likely be quite useful) and b) each phase, you always activate those who advanced before other units.  

 

The main drawback, to me, is that it almost certainly limit getting multiple units to tag the same enemy unit, which I can foresee as really hurting against my friend's necrons.  The fall back and charge issue I don't see as big of a problem, as you always have the option to stay still and I don't know how much of that I want to be doing in any event.  That said, I'm likely undervaluing the ability because I don't really have any experience (either giving or receiving) with fallback-and-charge.

 

From a metagaming perspective, I personally like how the rule seems to punish MSU, both in the EC army and its opponent - which I think is healthy for the game as it (potentially) encourages more diverse squad sizes.

Edited March 20 by Dr_Ruminahui

[Prot]

Yes, agreed on the MSU part. This is another reason I'm going with 10 man squads for now. The Thrill Seeker rule appears to punish running a lot of small units as well as characters on their own. I could see where this becomes quite confusing when you might have Lucius (solo), a typical Infractor squad, maybe a D.P. and some small elite units all hitting the main front lines.