Space Wolves refresh

[Marshal Reinhard]

Intercessor jumppacks aren't really interchangable with ordinary backpacks without.. work.. the backside knob thingy is at least twice as big

[TheNicronomicon]

There's no reason Space Wolves can't call their jump pack units Sky Claws. The question any unit will have to answer is "does adding this datasheet make sense?" There's a fluff reason for anything, but that alone won't move the company to design and manufacture a new kit. Just about any kit they make will sell, so that alone is, again, probably not enough of a motivator. If they feel the army needs that particular datasheet then they'll make it. Is there some trick or gimmick that will distinguish Sky Claws enough from AIwJPs that will make it worthwhile for GW to devote the manufacturing capacity to them? 

They current strategy seems to indicate that they want Space Marines to draw from the same pool of units, and then give some of the chapters a few more options. (And yes, I like that there are bonuses for playing plain-vanilla Marines now too. Good!) In the past, yes, Wolves were locked out of many basic Marine datasheets. I think that's how you ended up with Sky Claws, Swift Claws etc. being unique datasheets. That's not their current strategy, though. I think we'll only see those units added back in if they meet the criteria outlined above. 

As for Hounds taking the place of Wolf Scouts, I think they fill very different roles. Hounds are specifically (and thematically) anti-psyker troops. Wolf Scouts should have the same uppy/downy rule that basic Scouts have. While we may see Phobos-armored Wolf Scouts (maybe units of 3 like Eliminators? These are after all Long Fang veterans...) I think their role is different enough from the Hounds that both units can peacefully coexist. 

[Moonstalker]

18 minutes ago, TheNicronomicon said:

There's no reason Space Wolves can't call their jump pack units Sky Claws. The question any unit will have to answer is "does adding this datasheet make sense?" There's a fluff reason for anything, but that alone won't move the company to design and manufacture a new kit. Just about any kit they make will sell, so that alone is, again, probably not enough of a motivator. If they feel the army needs that particular datasheet then they'll make it. Is there some trick or gimmick that will distinguish Sky Claws enough from AIwJPs that will make it worthwhile for GW to devote the manufacturing capacity to them? 

They current strategy seems to indicate that they want Space Marines to draw from the same pool of units, and then give some of the chapters a few more options. (And yes, I like that there are bonuses for playing plain-vanilla Marines now too. Good!) In the past, yes, Wolves were locked out of many basic Marine datasheets. I think that's how you ended up with Sky Claws, Swift Claws etc. being unique datasheets. That's not their current strategy, though. I think we'll only see those units added back in if they meet the criteria outlined above. 

As for Hounds taking the place of Wolf Scouts, I think they fill very different roles. Hounds are specifically (and thematically) anti-psyker troops. Wolf Scouts should have the same uppy/downy rule that basic Scouts have. While we may see Phobos-armored Wolf Scouts (maybe units of 3 like Eliminators? These are after all Long Fang veterans...) I think their role is different enough from the Hounds that both units can peacefully coexist. 

 

Sure, I'm talking purely datasheets that will be cut, not what will be removed from lore.  Space Wolf infantry that use jump packs may be called Sky Claws (though some of us remember the days when Space Wolves didn't use jump packs or teleporters at all), but without a matching kit I think Sky Claws won't have a datasheet.

 

Hounds taking the place of Wolf Scouts is definitely just some speculation on my part, and not something I think is very likely.  It's also a somewhat strange unit that casts some doubt on some categorizations - or maybe sheds some light on them.  If Reivers + chapter upgrade sprue = unique unit, then could Scouts + upgrade sprue = Wolf Scouts?  Devastators + upgrade sprue = Long Fangs?  JPAI + upgrade sprue = Sky Claws?  Will GW go to the trouble of producing and stocking those as dedicated SKUs to keep the bad 3rd party man away?  It's hard to say.  A lot of those kits I was very certain of, but when you get to those it's murkier.

[DemonGSides]

Hit them skyclaws with the Death Company treatment and it would make sense. Include one of their special weapons in the SW upgrade sprue and then tell people to just buy JPAI. 

[lonewolf81]

There was a rumor engine that looked like a helfrost tip , was that  a match to any new model?  Add that to the bjorn teasers and boom... new model on the way :)

[Karhedron]

2 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

Hit them skyclaws with the Death Company treatment and it would make sense. Include one of their special weapons in the SW upgrade sprue and then tell people to just buy JPAI. 

 

We don't know yet if Space Wolves will be getting an upgrade sprue the way BAs and DAs did. If so, that would be an easy way to cover Skyclaws. Long Fangs have been in the SW roster since the beginning though and look to be in danger of going extinct simply because there isn't a clear successor for Devastators.

[Northern Walker]

2 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

We don't know yet if Space Wolves will be getting an upgrade sprue the way BAs and DAs did. If so, that would be an easy way to cover Skyclaws. Long Fangs have been in the SW roster since the beginning though and look to be in danger of going extinct simply because there isn't a clear successor for Devastators.

I'd be pretty hopeful of an upgrade sprue, but we'll see I suppose. Hoping for moulded shoulders for phobos as well as normal and gravis.

My prediction is we lose Long Fangs for like, an edition and then we primaris devastators eventually appear then they magically re-appear and GW will just try and pretend they never left.

[Tokugawa]

9 minutes ago, Northern Walker said:

I'd be pretty hopeful of an upgrade sprue, but we'll see I suppose. Hoping for moulded shoulders for phobos as well as normal and gravis.

My prediction is we lose Long Fangs for like, an edition and then we primaris devastators eventually appear then they magically re-appear and GW will just try and pretend they never left.

Every primaris shooting unit have one clear function. Eradictor is melta, Hellblaster is plasma, Sternguard is bolter, etc. The bits on sprues won't provide too many options, but enough to cover all possible options in rulebook.

 

Devastator is totally opposition of this commercial mode. It's not only representative of oldborn marine, but also representative of "old 40K", of old commercial concept. I feel that GW must kill it. Maybe not permanently, but this unit need to go die for once. When it return in new form, it probably won't have many main weapon choices, no more than 4.

[Moonstalker]

I feel more sanguine about Long Fangs sticking around even while we've got new BC and GH kits.  Devastators haven't been given the boot yet (and even though there aren't any rumors about them right now, I feel like an Assault Terminators/Devastators in Drop Pod starter box would make sense for 11th edition), and Long Fangs are specifically meant to be old marines.  Them being the surviving firstborn while new Primaris Marines fill up the BC and GH ranks makes sense to me.

[Orion]

Loving the armour variety with these. It's really where I've wanted Primaris to go. Hoping the next vanilla intercessor squad goes mixes it up as well.
With headswaps and a bit of trimming these guys could easily be any chapter.

 

Keeping Devastators alive through longfangs could be pretty cool.
If they're this level of chapter specific, they could be cool to convert to other chapters as well. (not that SW aren't cool)

[ThaneOfTas]

I would expect "Long Fangs" to just be a collective lore based non-game term applied to Helblasters/Eradicators/Pyreblasters/Desolators and maybe Heavy Ints. 

[TheMawr]

38 minutes ago, ThaneOfTas said:

I would expect "Long Fangs" to just be a collective lore based non-game term applied to Helblasters/Eradicators/Pyreblasters/Desolators and maybe Heavy Ints. 

 

Unless they update them in the current wave I think so too, maybe also a game term.. similar how Red butchers arent a unit in 40k currently, but rather a lose formation that applies to both Terminators (the normal ones.) and Eightbound.

Doesnt mean they never return though, eventually I expect Space wolves (and DA&BA) to become seperate codexes again, I think from GWs side it was always meant to be a long term but still temporarily thing knowing they would take several editions for the primaris switch, like this edition I suspect the majority of the spacemarine releases in 11th and 12th will be to get these 3 there, and they will just adjust the lore to it.

 

A lot of the discussion here and the spacemarine 2.0 codex ( wich is confusingly also about space wolves mostly right now.) is that two opposing sides are actually having a very different topic of conversation.

One side looks from a fanbase, including lore/theme etc. at what "should" be, the other from precedence and a known fact that things WILL be cut at what "might" be.

 

Wether they are iconic or not, its not realistic to expect GW will keep a datasheet that has no models, thats just not how they operate and we have already seen it with some very iconic Spacewolf elements ( Wolfpriest, Runepriest.)

 

Ofcourse with all the speculation, there might still be more to the rumors because one thing that would truelly suprise me is GW making the spacewolf bespoke lieutenant equivalent but not a Wolflord of some form. ( previously I thought they already had, but that single primaris nonnamed spacewolf model is described as a lieutenant now.. but it was the wolflord model in 8th edition right ?)

 

What I could see is them making is a wolflord on thunderwolf ( for example, terminator wolf lord is more likely though.) but no other ones (there you still use the captains), but mostly because its remniscent of the Lord on Juggernaut approach.

 

---

 

To go to the more subjective, less speculative side.

Initially I felt that with supplements, especially if you want to keep them supplements, is sometimes let a bespoke leader character transform the unit it leads. This is coming mostly from my thoughts and speculations on how Ynnari should be tackled.

 

For example, instead of several bespoke units, you focus on bespoke leaders : A Bloodclaw Packleader with a Jumppack option ( worked for Autarchs in a single kit.) that turns assault intercessor or jump pack intercessor units it joins into Blood claws, a Grey hunter packleader that can turn both assault intercessors and regular intercessors and maybe even hellblasters into Grey hunters. a Long Fang packleader that can do the same with the gravis units.

 

Ofcourse this is not how they will do things nor I think they should.. so its a bit of a pointless thought experiment here ;)

[Nephaston]

I can see them including or rewriting the "Space Marine Chapter" rule pertaining to SW to easily blanket the heavy weapon squads to long fangs.

 

"If your army includes one or more SPACE WOLVES units, it cannot include any of the following units: APOTHECARY; CHAPLAIN; DEVASTATOR SQUAD; TACTICAL SQUAD. Additionally units with one of the following Keyword gain the LONG FANGS Keyword; DESOLATION SQUAD; ERADICATOR SQUAD;

 

You an even expand this to other formations;

"Units with the PHOBOS Keyword gain the WOLF SCOUTS Keyword"

Should blood claws vanish as a standalone

"Non-Character Units with the JUMP PACK Keyword (except VANGUARD VETERANS) gain the SKY CLAWS Keyword

Should Wolf Guard vanish as a standalone

"Units with the Keywords STERNGUARD VETERAN SQUAD, VANGUARD VETERAN SQUAD gain the WOLF GUARD Keyword"

etc.

 

Either way, just more proof that space wolves are deserving of the non-compliant moniker, unlike BA and DA.

[Dark Shepherd]

Just watched Mediocre Hobbies painting vid of the new Grey Hunter. In it he says GW said at Adepticon preview there were 11 new Space Wolf kits to come out

 

(Known)

GH

BC

Wolf Priest

Battle Leader

Headtakers

 

(Valraks sources)

WGT

Logan

Scouts

Njal

Russ

Arjac

 

That means no new Bjorn and or Valrak is wrong about something, my guess Arjac or Scouts as theyre relatively peripheral but also thatd be a lotnof named infantry characters

 

 

[Joe]

Russ isn't coming with this wave - nor anytime before 2028. He hasn't even been in Valrak's rumours iirc.

 

They've stuck to the "loyalist Primarch roughly every five years to avoid oversaturating the setting" remark that Jes Goodwin made after Guilliman released. I can't see that changing anytime soon.

Edited 7 hours ago by Joe
Missing full stop.

[Dark Shepherd]

Coulda sworn he mentioned Russ but could be wrong, but also GW like sales and daemon primarchs are coming out at quite the clip.

 

If we take Russ out then:

Bjorn/Wolf Lord (TDA)?

1 hour ago, Joe said:

Russ isn't coming with this wave - nor anytime before 2028. He hasn't even been in Valrak's rumours iirc.

 

They've stuck to the "loyalist Primarch roughly every five years to avoid oversaturating the setting" remark that Jes Goodwin made after Guilliman released. I can't see that changing anytime soon.

Edited 6 hours ago by Dark Shepherd

[Wraithwing]

2 hours ago, Dark Shepherd said:

 

 

That means no new Bjorn and or Valrak is wrong about something, my guess Arjac or Scouts as theyre relatively peripheral but also thatd be a lotnof named infantry characters

 

 

 

Not sure why people have a hard on for proving Valrak wrong, but that is exactly the list he rumour, minus Russ, as Valrak said Russ wasn't coming in this release. 

[TheMawr]

2 hours ago, Dark Shepherd said:

Just watched Mediocre Hobbies painting vid of the new Grey Hunter. In it he says GW said at Adepticon preview there were 11 new Space Wolf kits to come out

 

(Known)

GH

BC

Wolf Priest

Battle Leader

Headtakers

 

(Valraks sources)

WGT

Logan

Scouts

Njal

Russ

Arjac

 

That means no new Bjorn and or Valrak is wrong about something, my guess Arjac or Scouts as theyre relatively peripheral but also thatd be a lotnof named infantry characters

 

 

 

Others already mentioned Regarding Russ.

 

If 11 is correct then :

While an unrumored wolf lord wouldnt suprise me, as its absence while we get the lieutenant equivalent is kind of weird ( but far from impossible)

 

But one thing to keep in mind while many fans have a tendency to Not count upgrade kits or things like terrains as a release... if the 11 kits comes from GW themselves as is claimed, they would 100% ( and imho rightfully so) count an upgrade sprue as a kit.

 

So that is the likeliest candidate for the 11th kit. ( GW would potentially also count the 8th edition battle leader first seperate release, but i dont think it happens, like the BA and DA lieutenant he probably dissapears)

 

[Karhedron]

A SW upgrade sprue would definitely be a good way Wolf up existing Primaris squads. The current sprue is pretty lacklustre so something on par with the BA/DA sprue would be great. It would also help bring Phobos and Gravis squads aesthetically into line with new GHs and BCs.

[Dark Shepherd]

Good call re upgrade sprue being one of the kits.