Space Wolves refresh

[Frogian]

3 hours ago, Beef said:

Do we have a price on the army box yet?

 

£145

[Karhedron]

5 minutes ago, Frogian said:

£145

 

That is about what I was expecting. Slightly more than last year's BA set but probably has more value in it as everything in there is a new model whereas the BA set had a lot of recycled Intercessors of one flavour or another.

[HolyPestilience]

Did the leaks said anything about a/the new combat patrol?

[Commissar Greif]

2 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

 

Considering the BA army box contained 4x of the upgrade sprue, it was not revealed after. It was sold separately after for sure, but it actually is starting to look like maybe the SW aren't getting an upgrade sprue on release.

 

Considering how many full unit boxes they have, probably fine overall as they will contain some extra bits. Worrisome for helmet prefer-ers though.

Yeah, I think I mixed up Blood Angels with someone else in my head. Was it the Black Templars sprue that was revealed and released after the army box?

[Blindhamster]

I think if an upgrade sprue were coming, it would have by now.

 

tbh, I sort of feel like it’s not needed, you’re going to have a much better position via spares from the host of new kits than blood angels got from their upgrade sprue.

[Northern Walker]

14 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

I think if an upgrade sprue were coming, it would have by now.

 

tbh, I sort of feel like it’s not needed, you’re going to have a much better position via spares from the host of new kits than blood angels got from their upgrade sprue.

I think one will come, purely for shoulders with moulded great company logos (Ragnar) for the various mainline kits.

[Karhedron]

7 minutes ago, Northern Walker said:

I think one will come, purely for shoulders with moulded great company logos (Ragnar) for the various mainline kits.

 

There is the existing Primaris upgrade sprue although it does not cover Phobos IIRC.

 

[Blindhamster]

2 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

There is the existing Primaris upgrade sprue although it does not cover Phobos IIRC.

 

Which may be a reason hounds of morkai got dropped actually

[Northern Walker]

40 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

Which may be a reason hounds of morkai got dropped actually

Could very well be, but equally it'd be odd for SW not to have access to phobos pads when DA and BA do? Are Reivers maybe getting canned soon?

[Blindhamster]

51 minutes ago, Northern Walker said:

Could very well be, but equally it'd be odd for SW not to have access to phobos pads when DA and BA do? Are Reivers maybe getting canned soon?

Doubtful. Also it’s not just reivers, it’s also infiltrators and incursors.

 

worth noting that it’s not ai uncommon for not all armour types to have access to all pads. Templars don’t have terminator pads. Nobody has assault intercessors pads

 

its weird blood angels don’t have full death company kits but space wolves got full kits for their stuff. GW work in weird ways. (Before anyway says, it’s always been that way, actually blood angels had a full unique death company kits from the same time angels of death got their codex, hell they even had a bespoke tactical kit shortly after that, and have had such a kit again since then)

Edited 10 hours ago by Blindhamster

[Karhedron]

Looks like we are starting to get army rules popping up. Saga of the Bold looks interesting but not particularly powerful. What is more interesting is what we learn about the different models.

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/s2lwrd2d/space-wolves-meet-the-new-leaders-of-the-pack/

 

First up, Wolf Priests combine the best parts of Chaplain and Apothecary. I can seriously see these guys being fielded in multiples!

 

 

 

WGBLs are now not just reskinned Lieutenants. While they have a bit less tactical flexibility, I think Sustained Hits 1 is fair trade for Lethal Hits. Whether Rerolling 1s against targets within 6" is better than the ability to Fall Back and Shoot/Charge I am not sure but at least they now deserve their own model and entry.

 

 

 

Njal looks interesting as a fixed 6" Advance is quite tasty. The real killer will be if any of the Detachments include a stratagem for Advance and Charge as that will make them scary.

 

 

Wolf Guard Terminators now get Rugged Resilience which I think is a lot better than the mediocre "Fury of the First". TDA WG don't quite rival Deathwing Knights for durability but they come close and they don't have to give up their shooting attacks which makes these guys really good Objective holders, especially if the rumoured rule about Logan allowing Deep Striking on T1 is corect.

 

 

Speaking of Logan, his other special rule is boosting the cost of enemy Strats within 12". This is always a popular ability as many armies really on their stratagems for crucial knock-out blows. The fact that TDA means Logan should be tough enough to survive the brawl of the midfield is a big plus.

 

Edited 9 hours ago by Karhedron

[Dark Shepherd]

There are no Salamanders on Fenris

[Tokugawa]

I wish Marshall and Castellan would also become real new units, not only cosmetic.

[lonewolf81]

Thats a nice detachment rule. You get the weak version ( reroll 1H or 1W or 1D )for free on character units and when you do the 3/4 deeds you get the enhanced version reroll 1H and 1W and 1D for all units of yor army... looks strong because its for range and melee and also as it is written it takes effect immediately ( the deeds are achieved by character units now not models so it makes it easier to achieve) 

Edited 8 hours ago by lonewolf81

[Lemondish]

9 minutes ago, lonewolf81 said:

Thats a nice detachment rule. You get the weak version ( reroll 1H or 1W or 1D )for free on character units and when you do the 3/4 deeds you get the enhanced version reroll 1H and 1W and 1D for all units of yor army... looks strong because its for range and melee and also as it is written it takes effect immediately ( the deeds are achieved by character units now not models so it makes it easier to achieve) 

I also like the CP battery enhancement — it makes me think frequent use of the stratagems will be key to maximizing the power of this detachment.

[Karhedron]

4 minutes ago, lonewolf81 said:

Thats a nice detachment rule. You get the weak version ( reroll 1H or 1W or 1D )for free on character units and when you do the 3/4 deeds you get the enhanced version reroll 1H and 1W and 1D for all units of yor army... looks strong because its for range and melee and also as it is written it takes effect imediately

 

The fully activated version is basically the same as the Eldar Index detachment ability. The thing is that activating it will take 2 turns at minimum unless your opponent is foolish enough to leave their home Objective unguarded (some armies may rely on ObjSec and luck). Still as the article points out, units like Bjorn and Murderfang are also Characters so I can see mileage here. Bjorn with a MM might be good here.

 

On further thought, I quite like that this Detachment takes what can be a weakness of OOM and turns it into a strength. Normally OOM works best when applied to big, powerful units. Against small units it is overkill. But MSU is quite popular in the meta at the moment. Since you must kill one OOM target (probably 2 in most games) to trigger your Saga, placing it on easily killed units is no longer a waste, it is a valuable step in activating the full power of your Detachment rule.

 

Killing your OOM target 2 turns in a row and holding a midfield Objective at the start of Turn 2 should not be too hard to pull off. You also have the option of nabbing your opponent's Objective instead of one of the above if they are careless. It should be possible to activate this on Turn 2 against a lot of opponents if you build your army with a decent number of Characters.

3 minutes ago, Lemondish said:

I also like the CP battery enhancement — it makes me think frequent use of the stratagems will be key to maximizing the power of this detachment.

 

 

Yes, this is a good enhancement to stash on a cheap support Character.

[Mogger351]

Mr rockfist removing 12 wounds off a questoris on the charge single handedly feels a bit much.

[Karhedron]

2 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

The thing is that activating it will take 2 turns at minimum unless your opponent is foolish enough to leave their home Objective unguarded

 

And this is why I need to read faster and type slower. 

 

 

We don't need to take their home Objective, just drop into their DZ and survive until the end of the turn. That is a lot easier to achieve and means we should be able to unlock out full ability pretty reliably on T2. Having a cheap Deep Strike unit like Reivers and a Lt to drop in, shoot something and then use their 6" reactive move to either get into the DZ or duck into some cover means your opponent will either have to fill their DZ with chaff or risk letting your army go all super-saiyan!

[Karhedron]

1 minute ago, Mogger351 said:

Mr rockfist removing 12 wounds off a questoris on the charge single handedly feels a bit much.

 

I don't think it will be quite as bad as that as the hammer does not have Dev Wounds. So while it will wounds the Questoris easily enough, it will still get normal saves. The average damage against a Questoris will only be 5-6 Wounds after saves (slightly higher in the Saga of the Bold Detachment dure to rerolls). Sure you may spike high occasionally but that is always true.

 

[Mogger351]

19 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

I don't think it will be quite as bad as that as the hammer does not have Dev Wounds. So while it will wounds the Questoris easily enough, it will still get normal saves. The average damage against a Questoris will only be 5-6 Wounds after saves (slightly higher in the Saga of the Bold Detachment dure to rerolls). Sure you may spike high occasionally but that is always true.

 

They have a 3+, so they're saving on 5's. Because they trigger his keyword bingo card, throwing the hammer as well basically equates to nearly 6 d3 wounds to save on a 5+.

[Karhedron]

4 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

They have a 3+, so they're saving on 5's. Because they trigger his keyword bingo card, throwing the hammer as well basically equates to nearly 6 d3 wounds to save on a 5+.

 

No, not even close, you are assuming that several sequential 2+ and 3+ rolls will always all come up in your favour. But since I never shy from a challenge, let's do some Maths Hammer.

 

Including the throw, that is 6 attacks at 3 Damage so a theoretical maximum of 18 wounds.

Hitting on 2s means 1 miss on average which takes it down to 15

Wounding on 3s means an average of 10

Your opponent saves on 5s meaning that average now goes down 6.67

 

So even if you include the throw (which I did not in my original calculation) you are averaging 6-7 wounds on a Questoris. Definitely good for a Character but not over-powered (assuming the points are balanced).

[Mogger351]

3 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

No, not even close, you are assuming that several sequential 2+ and 3+ rolls will always all come up in your favour. But since I never shy from a challenge, let's do some Maths Hammer.

 

Including the throw, that is 6 attacks at 3 Damage so a theoretical maximum of 18 wounds.

Hitting on 2s means 1 miss on average which takes it down to 15

Wounding on 3s means an average of 10

Your opponent saves on 5s meaning that average now goes down 6.67

 

So even if you include the throw (which I did not in my original calculation) you are averaging 6-7 wounds on a Questoris. Definitely good for a Character but not over-powered (assuming the points are balanced).

They're all characters, he gets full reroll hits and wounds.

[Karhedron]

5 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

They're all characters, he gets full reroll hits and wounds.

 

I stand corrected. For some reason I thought only Canis was a Character.

[Redcomet]

18 hours ago, Bryan Blaire said:

Yeah, but CGL does!  It’s really nice of GW to be so kind to BattleTech and other alternate games by producing these last two (terrible) editions of 40K rules.

Indeed. It has given Battletech another boost

[Mogger351]

3 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

I stand corrected. For some reason I thought only Canis was a Character.

No worries, the gallant sort of stands a fair chance but as a player of spiky knights, if they end up in a position to charge a rampager, Mr fist + 5 terminators floor it in a game turn and lose 3 guys in return