Space Wolves refresh

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Has anyone here mentioned the strat that mentions it doesn’t effect any space wolves <monster> units?

 

vlarak has speculated this hints at leman Russ’ return.

[Commissar Greif]

1 hour ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Has anyone here mentioned the strat that mentions it doesn’t effect any space wolves <monster> units?

 

vlarak has speculated this hints at leman Russ’ return.

I believe it was mentioned earlier in the thread, just a page or two ago.

[Wispy]

9 hours ago, blue_raptor55 said:

 

Gotcha! Is it open to all marines in the company or is it only pack leaders/wolf guard that are given the right to do so? Couldn't tell based on their wiki page https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Bran_Redmaw

 

It's not a hard and fast rule but I believe it's a the Pack leader and Wolf Guard thing. Forgeworld did an Imperial Armour book with them awhile back.

 

Edited 8 hours ago by Wispy

[TopToffee]

12 hours ago, Dorn of War said:

 

It's an interesting bit of wording to pick up on. However, I still think that the book Ashes of Prospero (2018) literally tells us which Primarchs are going to be released initially - which would mean that Khan and Corax are the next loyalist Primarchs to return. 

I just can’t see any way that they bring back two Primarchs from chapters/legions that (comparatively) no one plays, before they bring back Russ.

 

it would border on breaking their fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders.

[Gundric]

6 hours ago, INKS said:

I don't know how crusade works, but you can't take named characters? And the new codex doesn't have any generic terminator captain or HQ? Or a generic priest? - I haven't looked at the leaks much

You can take named characters, but they never level, gain experience or equip relics, so there is little point in doing so. Crusade is all about growing an army of 'your dudes' through triumphs and tribulations, named characters aren't really part  of the spirit of that. This new codex seriously reduces the options for a crusade player.

[DemonGSides]

I'm wondering if C:SM2 will update how the various chapter keywords are applied; maybe in C:SM2 you apply a chapter keyword during a Space Marines army construction and all this wailing and gnashing of fangs will be moot because yes, your terminator librarian will be a Space Wolves keyworded unit and can at least have the rules apply to them.

 

Doesn't solve the current issue with Leader attachments, but hey, we can't apply a Sanguinary Priest to Bladeguard where he would be awesome either so it's not a new thing to be disappointed with that.   GW is mostly just stupid and I think people should be more open to house rules. 

Edited 5 hours ago by DemonGSides

[Lionsbane]

Quote

can't apply a Sanguinary Priest to Bladeguard

Because he doesn't have a Storm Shield. No I don't know why some characters care and others do not. Again it is stupid arbitrary nonsense. But he can join a unit with a captain, lt or chapter master, even if it is named... 

And your Death Company units still have options... They keep peeling them off SW. 

[Alternis]

13 hours ago, Dorn of War said:

 

Other than the fact that the Primarchs mentioned are the ones that were then released... 

it has long been my belief and speculation GW will be focusing on bringing back the divergent Primarch’s first before we see any of the codex compliant Primarchs, same principle as CSM. 
 

so going by everything we’ve seen so far, Russ should be next to round off this release, then my money is on Dorn & Sanguinius. 
 

I’ve theorised that this seed of the tree of life Russ is after, which he intends to use to resurrect the emperor, Big E’s master plan might actually have him use that on Papa Sang instead, who knows! 
But Russ indeed does sound like his return is imminent, especially since the 13th great company who went into the eye of Terra with him have all started coming back now.

Edited 5 hours ago by Alternis

[Karhedron]

9 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

nah, they’re a definite upgrade. And should be more. Maybe not 30 points more. But definitely more.

 

Intercessors get 4A AP-1 in shooting and 3A AP0 in melee. Grey Hunters get 2-3A AP0 shooting and 4A AP-1 in melee. They have pretty much swapped their melee and shooting attacks so I would not say Hunters are an upgrade to Intercessors. Intercessors also get both Assault and Heavy on their guns which is a better combo than RF1.

[Lionsbane]

Quote

 

Intercessors get 4A AP-1 in shooting and 3A AP0 in melee. Grey Hunters get 2-3A AP0 shooting and 4A AP-1 in melee. They have pretty much swapped their melee and shooting attacks so I would not say Hunters are an upgrade to Intercessors. Intercessors also get both Assault and Heavy on their guns which is a better combo than RF1.

Honestly I think Intercessors are much better for the simple reason you can get 5 of them instead of min size 10. GH and BC units need to be cheap (as BC already are) because you rarely ever want units of 10, much less 20. Can you imagine trying to find a spot 20 Blood Claws will not get obliterated turn one if that is what your opponent decides to shoot? 

[Blindhamster]

7 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

Intercessors get 4A AP-1 in shooting and 3A AP0 in melee. Grey Hunters get 2-3A AP0 shooting and 4A AP-1 in melee. They have pretty much swapped their melee and shooting attacks so I would not say Hunters are an upgrade to Intercessors. Intercessors also get both Assault and Heavy on their guns which is a better combo than RF1.

they also get OC3c which is a bigger deal than you seem willing to make. Not many things in the game will hold objectives against them. And they’re movement 7, which is also a definite buff.

 

they absolutely should cost more points than intercessors. Not 30 more though. I think they should be 170, or thereabouts as they basically are best of both worlds of intercessors and assault intercessors

[Mogger351]

3 minutes ago, Lionsbane said:

Honestly I think Intercessors are much better for the simple reason you can get 5 of them instead of min size 10. GH and BC units need to be cheap (as BC already are) because you rarely ever want units of 10, much less 20. Can you imagine trying to find a spot 20 Blood Claws will not get obliterated turn one if that is what your opponent decides to shoot? 

I'm sorry, are you aware of how much of the game can field large units? How this isn't a new thing? 20 t4 3+ wounds for 135pts is almost a record low for this sort of unit.

 

I play with and against wolves (occasionally in doubles) and I'm sorry but half the stuff that people complain about is just... bizarre.

[Ehfull]

9 hours ago, Gundric said:

As a Crusade player only, they really have neutered me from playing with the new units somewhat. I can't take terminator characters or generic rune priests as the only options are epic heros who basically don't interact with GW's own campaign rules very well. Might just slap 5 points on OG codex terminator characters and rune priests for the extra movement and allow them to join the relevant squads. 

This limitations are for the legal play. If you dont play to juste play the better armyr possible, just ask your friends to do it and go.

[Lionsbane]

Quote

I play with and against wolves (occasionally in doubles) and I'm sorry but half the stuff that people complain about is just... bizarre.

I may have not made it clear. I think the BC cost is fine, they are cheap as they should be. GH should be cheaper. 

To expound upon what I was trying to get across. I think when you see units that are 5-10 or whatever. The first five should be more expensive than the last five.

[Lionsbane]

Quote

just ask your friends to do it and go.

Even casual players play with random people in FLGS. Assuming because you are not at a GT you are 'playing with your friends' is a huge disconnect from reality. 

[Commissar Greif]

Has anyone got more shots of the miniature showcase in the new codex?

[DemonGSides]

10 minutes ago, Lionsbane said:

Even casual players play with random people in FLGS. Assuming because you are not at a GT you are 'playing with your friends' is a huge disconnect from reality. 

 

Not really. I think most of the overblown "But what about LGS pick up games?!" Complaints come about due to  hypotheticals. Plenty of pickup games I've seen and been part of have had a friendly chat about a small rule deviation or the like without any problems.

 

If neither of you are practicing for a tournament there's no need to be a stickler for those sorts of rules. Play the in-game rules as close to possible, but things like Legends units and "Hey can I attach this guy and see if it's truly as broken as GW seems to think it is?" Aren't hard asks and any sane human would be fine giving it a try.

 

40 minutes ago, Lionsbane said:

Because he doesn't have a Storm Shield. No I don't know why some characters care and others do not. Again it is stupid arbitrary nonsense. But he can join a unit with a captain, lt or chapter master, even if it is named... 

And your Death Company units still have options... They keep peeling them off SW. 

 

I don't care about whatever justification, it's stupid either way.

 

And say that to my former thunder hammer DC. Things change. 

[Lionsbane]

 

Quote

And say that to my former thunder hammer DC. Things change. 

I guess. But I have a metric ton of Blood Claw and Grey Hunter models with Power Fists, Special weapons etc. that have been out of a job for a long time. DC still have some options. I get it. We got better models. But man it isn't all roses here either. 

[Northern Walker]

Maybe we can all agree that codexes are handly very poorly these days?

[Crimson Longinus]

Grey Hunter price per model is fine. It is the unit size that is an issue. If you could have five of them for 95 points they would be an excellent unit. The OC 3 would matter and they could ride an Impulsor if needed. But as ten man unit it is just too much. Yes, you can have OC30 on one objective which is far more than necessary most of the time and  you pay a lot of points for that.

 

Also note that in addition of being able to hold two different objectives (and more with sticky) two five man Intercessor squads can have two power fists etc between them whereas Grey Hunters only have one per ten, so the Intercessors actually are not that much behind in melee punch than mere basic weapons would imply. 

[Casual Heresy]

Agreed @Northern Walker. Say what you will about 9th's gameplay, but the codexes felt much more worthwhile, particularly the lore sections. 10th's Codexes feel anemic in comparison.

 

I'm personally happy with the new models and a lot of their rules. I do kind of hate that SW characters can only join SW units and like others the inability to take generic characters like a Rune Priest/Librarian in a Grey Hunter pack for example is annoying. But for me personally I can live with it because A) all the new models are excellent and B) I can lean into more of the SW specific stuff to keep the new army distinct from my other marine collections. I'm currently envisioning a solid core of Grey Hunters with some Headtakers and Blood Claws for assault, a large centrepiece squad of Terminators with Logan and some flavouring of heavy fire support to round it out. 

 

Speaking of fire support, the Iron Priest surviving the transition is a surprise. Babysitting a Lancer or Ballistus might be the sensible plan but marching up the board with a Valiant with rapid fire multi meltas sounds like fun.

 

Still hoping for an upgrade sprue though. The BT and Cadian ones weren't revealed until after everything else so there is still hope.

Edited 1 hour ago by Casual Heresy

[Karhedron]

The build will probably vary a bit depending on Detachment. Beastslayer looks like a good all-rounder that supports different playstyles and will probably be my go-to detachment. Saga of the Bold will need to load up with SW Characters and units since only they can trigger the Boasts. Killing an Oath Target T1 might also be trickier than I anticipated since there are no SW units with decent ranged firepower (maybe Bjorn at a stretch). Saga of the Hunter looks trash to be honest but maybe I am missing something.

[Casual Heresy]

I agree with your assessment @Karhedron. I'm personally drawn to Beastslayer because as you say it's a decent all-rounder that should benefit whatever build I go with. 

The only other option for getting a turn 1 Oath kill is a turn one charge, but a good opponent won't leave an opening for that, even with advance and charge mechanics in play. Or they're clever enough to bait an obvious trap (hands up I have fallen for such traps with my JP Death Company but sometimes the bait is too good, and a T1 charge that wipes a unit is too much fun. Very occasionally it even works in my favour!).

 

From what I can see, Hunter requires leaning into very specific units to be really effective, but there is probably potential there I haven't picked up on yet. We'll see what my traditional lazy afternoon study session at the pub on release day throws up. 

[Bryan Blaire]

4 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

Plenty of pickup games I've seen and been part of have had a friendly chat about a small rule deviation or the like without any problems.

 

If neither of you are practicing for a tournament there's no need to be a stickler for those sorts of rules. Play the in-game rules as close to possible, but things like Legends units and "Hey can I attach this guy and see if it's truly as broken as GW seems to think it is?" Aren't hard asks and any sane human would be fine giving it a try.

You are making some assumptions about the players at various FLGSs through the world.  
 

While folks should be more open to giving things a try, having played now in several states in the U.S., I have found that it’s generally a very mixed bag. There are folks that will only play by original rules and don’t even give FAQs or points updates credence, folks that use anything at the table, folks that use homebrew rules, and even stores that have their own “home rules” that they have players use, and generally those that only use official rules in various forms.

 

I’ve even played (sorry for the off-topic) in one store where the group playing was trying to enforce a “no proxies, you can only use the Mech you have represented in mini form” for BattleTech when the actual game rules tell you that proxying is absolutely acceptable and gives you rules on how to do it - so there are even players out there that refuse to acknowledge rules they don’t like even when written by the game producer.

 

Saying that “friendly games” should or shouldn’t make adjustments or that “sane players should allow some variance” isn’t an accepted norm across the world. I have been very open to playing against proxies armies or even homebrew rules, etc., but on the whole, even here at B&C, I have found that I’m far from the norm. Most people only ever want to play by the most recent version of official rules with no deviations - assuming some different standard because something is a “friendly game” doesn’t seem to be the common reality.

Edited 5 minutes ago by Bryan Blaire

[Karhedron]

OK, here is a fun 1500 point list I have put together for Saga of the Beastslayer;

 

90 Ragnar

135 10 Blood Claws

240 Land Raider

 

70 Wolf Priest

180 6 WG Headtakers

80 Impulsor

 

60 Iron Priest

135 Predator Annihilator

140 Ballistus Dread

 

80 Intercessors

 

110 Heavy Intercessors

 

80 WGBL with Wolf-touched

90 5 Wulfen with Hammers Shields and frag launchers

 

1490 Total

 

The list is intended to make good use of our toys and the Lethal Hits. The Iron Priest, Predator and Ballistus are the firebase and are there to help score Beastslayer. The Land Raider can also help while it is ferrying Ragnar and the BCs into the fray. The Blood Claws should be able to punch up very effectively with Lethal Hits, full Rerolls to Wound from Ragnar and the option of +1 to Wound from Unbridled Ferocity against tough targets. 2+ save units will be a bit more of a challenge but Ragnar has 10 Attacks at S6 Ap-3 on the charge and also benefits from the full rerolls.

 

The Headtakers use the Impulsor for staging and should be able to pull off a T2 charge at the latest, hopefully against their favoured target. With the Wolf Priest for +1 to Wound and a revival every turn, I am hoping they should survive to tackle a second target.

 

Heavy Intercessors camp on the home Objective while the Intercessors and Wulfen aim for the flanking Objectives.