Space Wolves refresh

[Grimtooth]

On 5/26/2025 at 12:32 AM, Borbarad said:

Damn, this codex is a massive clusterf*** of keywords 

 

So Greyhunters et all can run 7” but Marines drawn from codex can’t? Many Strategems only apply to SW keyword units? Characters can only join SW unit but not the SM with the same basic keyword (e.g., Terminators)?

 

Sorry GW but this ain’t it.
For one, this is any invitation to make mistakes and puts further cognitive load on both player and opponent in an already complex game.

Second, what is the narrative reasoning? Did the non-SW-keyword units skip leg day? Are they merely auxiliary units, not proper SW?

 

Don get me wrong, the codex looks great otherwise. But some design choices are simply baffling 

Not clustered at all if you think about it. 
 

GH/BC who have been SW all their lives and fought as SW all their lives before crossing the Rubicon Primaris should 100% fight differently than SW Intercessors who were created as Primaris, trained as Primaris, and fought under Guilliman’s Codex during the Indomitus Crusade.

 

All Primaris for the most part fight as Guilliman trained them. The outlier being the SW Combat Patrol rules/sagas and Hounds of Morkai. 

[Crimson Longinus]

2 hours ago, Grimtooth said:

Not clustered at all if you think about it. 
 

GH/BC who have been SW all their lives and fought as SW all their lives before crossing the Rubicon Primaris should 100% fight differently than SW Intercessors who were created as Primaris, trained as Primaris, and fought under Guilliman’s Codex during the Indomitus Crusade.

 

All Primaris for the most part fight as Guilliman trained them. The outlier being the SW Combat Patrol rules/sagas and Hounds of Morkai. 

 

No, because chapters now make their own primaris marines. SW Intercessors etc have been part of the chaopter culture their whole lives too. 

[01RTB01]

On 5/25/2025 at 11:32 PM, Borbarad said:

Damn, this codex is a massive clusterf*** of keywords 

 

So Greyhunters et all can run 7” but Marines drawn from codex can’t? Many Strategems only apply to SW keyword units? Characters can only join SW unit but not the SM with the same basic keyword (e.g., Terminators)?

 

Sorry GW but this ain’t it.
For one, this is any invitation to make mistakes and puts further cognitive load on both player and opponent in an already complex game.

Second, what is the narrative reasoning? Did the non-SW-keyword units skip leg day? Are they merely auxiliary units, not proper SW?

 

Don get me wrong, the codex looks great otherwise. But some design choices are simply baffling 

 

Emperor's Children also move 7. They never skipped leg day and have spent 10,000 years perfecting their martial mince across the battlefield.

 

The wolves have spent so long running for the dinner bell that a) Pavlov says they're all good boys and b) they just move that quickly all the time now.

 

Conversely, the remaining chapters/ legions look upon the Third with disdain and shake their heads at the Rout. They maintain a measure of decorum and a slower walk.

 

Ta da. I'm officially retiring as there's no way I'm topping this.

[Grimtooth]

17 minutes ago, Crimson Longinus said:

 

No, because chapters now make their own primaris marines. SW Intercessors etc have been part of the chaopter culture their whole lives too. 

They do NOW which is why we have GH/BC who are also Primaris because they were made from GH/BC. But your codex Primaris who were made with SW genestock and were brought to Fenris and accepted by Grimnar, were trained as codex Intercessors and whatnot.
 

The rules for the lore on that one or we would have codex Intercessors running 7”.  

[Dark Shepherd]

Anyone have a list of the points changes? From Auspex Tactics video it seems like we did very well

[Bryan Blaire]

40 minutes ago, Grimtooth said:

They do NOW which is why we have GH/BC who are also Primaris because they were made from GH/BC. But your codex Primaris who were made with SW genestock and were brought to Fenris and accepted by Grimnar, were trained as codex Intercessors and whatnot.
 

The rules for the lore on that one or we would have codex Intercessors running 7”.  

I don’t think there would be a lot of maintenance of Codex units in the Space Wolves, regardless of whether they were brought or not - those Intercessors were just as interested in melding into the Wolves when they got there and took up the trials, etc.

 

Its a half-ass implementation that isn’t well thought out, and likely partially in an effort not to piss off players who already heavily invested in things the Wolves rightfully are unlikely to use because GW didn’t think the implementation for the Wolves through in 8th & 9th Editions either.

 

At this point, you have Wolves that have crossed the Rubicon to become Primaris, Wolves that haven’t, Wolves that were Primaris taken originally from Fenris 10K years ago who never really fit with the “Codex” thing once de-stasis’d, and Wolves that were made as Primaris and are still in the BC or GW phase, or are even early Wolf Guard - the amount of actual “Codex” Primaris left from the Grey Shields should be pretty few by this point, not enough to justify having to separate the ruleset/keywords. That’s for GW’s ease and benefit, not ours and not the lore.

Edited Wednesday at 09:28 PM by Bryan Blaire

[Karhedron]

10 hours ago, Dark Shepherd said:

Anyone have a list of the points changes? From Auspex Tactics video it seems like we did very well

 

There were points in the original codex leak but I haven't heard of any updates yet. GW normally do a Day 1 update, has that dropped early? 

 

I think Grey Hunters could do with a bit of a drop.

Edited Thursday at 08:00 AM by Karhedron

[Vardus]

5 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

There were points in the original codex leak but I haven't heard of any updates yet. GW normally do a Day 1 update, has that dropped early? 

 

I think Grey Hunters could do with a bit of a drop.

 

The Auspex video had points from taken from Goonhammer.

 

Changes; (Compared to Codex printed)

 

                Grey Hunters down 10 to 180,

                Wolf Guard Terminators down 10 to 170,

                Headtakers  down 5 to 85 for 3, Wolves up 5 to 25 for 3,

                Wulfen TH/SS up 10 to 100,

                Bjorn down 10 to 170,

                Murderfang down 10 to 160,

                Logan Grimnar may or may not be up 5 to 115.

 

[Karhedron]

In the switch to 10th I had somehow failed to clock that Fenrisian/Hunting Wolves can perform actions. With the smallest packs coming in at 25 points for 3 (if buying Headtakers ) or 40 points for 8, I can see the appeal of 1 or 2 small packs for screening, anti-deep strike and cheap actions monkeys.

[WARMASTER_]

On 5/23/2025 at 6:24 PM, Wispy said:

It's a personal army, who cares.

I get what he’s saying if you’re making a 13th company force it’s a passion project so you’d expect them to at least try and make it lore accurate [first born with heresy + Chaos armour] it’s the same as having a primaris heresy army 

 

 

Edited 22 hours ago by WARMASTER_

[Crimson Longinus]

43 minutes ago, WARMASTER_ said:

I get what he’s saying if you’re making a 13th company force it’s a passion project so you’d expect them to at least try and make it lore accurate [first born with heresy + Chaos armour] 

 

People can be passionate about the hobby in different ways. Like the person probably wanted to make the best looking 13th company force they could, one that captures the feel of the concept, and for that using bigger primaris bodies was the right choice. Not everyone's passion about 40K manifest in form of caring about minutiae; I personally don't even though I know most of it. I care about the general feel, vibe and themes, not in what exact millennia the exact curve of this particular marine kneepad was introduced. (At least until the lore gets retconned or contradicted.) This is one reason why I could never get into HH; that game's fanbase seem to mainly consist of such rivet counters that agonise over tedious "lore accuracy" or trivial details. 

 

Same with the discussion about primaris introduction to SW here. I just don't care. Primaris are just better looking and better scaled space marines. I really wish GW never tried to explain it in the lore, I think it has caused more unnecessary controversy than "this is how our marine models now look like, deal with it" would have. 

 

 

Edited 22 hours ago by Crimson Longinus

[Cyrox]

39 minutes ago, Crimson Longinus said:

 

People can be passionate about the hobby in different ways. Like the person probably wanted to make the best looking 13th company force they could, one that captures the feel of the concept, and for that using bigger primaris bodies was the right choice. Not everyone's passion about 40K manifest in form of caring about minutiae; I personally don't even though I know most of it. I care about the general feel, vibe and themes, not in what exact millennia the exact curve of this particular marine kneepad was introduced. (At least until the lore gets retconned or contradicted.) This is one reason why I could never get into HH; that game's fanbase seem to mainly consist of such rivet counters that agonise over tedious "lore accuracy" or trivial details. 

 

Same with the discussion about primaris introduction to SW here. I just don't care. Primaris are just better looking and better scaled space marines. I really wish GW never tried to explain it in the lore, I think it has caused more unnecessary controversy than "this is how our marine models now look like, deal with it" would have. 

 

 

 

I agree with most of that, but in defence of Heresy players, only a minority are rivet counters, most people i've met are really cool and just want to play and like looking at other armies and saying 'Oooh that so cool etc'

[Wispy]

4 hours ago, WARMASTER_ said:

I get what he’s saying if you’re making a 13th company force it’s a passion project so you’d expect them to at least try and make it lore accurate [first born with heresy + Chaos armour] it’s the same as having a primaris heresy army 

 

 

It's a personal army. Who cares.

[HeadlessCross]

4 hours ago, WARMASTER_ said:

I get what he’s saying if you’re making a 13th company force it’s a passion project so you’d expect them to at least try and make it lore accurate [first born with heresy + Chaos armour] it’s the same as having a primaris heresy army 

 

 

And lore accuracy dictates they'd be bigger than normal Manlet Marines and probably use scrap pieces of armor. Bam, done. 

[Lord Abaia]

Mk X armor on wulfen models is pretty easy to justify:

• The 13th company goes into the Eye of Terror. Everyone goes full wulfen and fights for 10k warp years. They don't have infrastructure to repair damaged armor in the Eye.
• They get out of the Eye and are reunited with the M41 Space Wolves chapter in the the events of Curse of the Wulfen/Wrath of Magnus.
• The wulfen need new armor. The chapter armorers use Mk X as a base for making armor that fits werewolf physiology because it's big (werewolf makes you big).

They aren't primaris wulfen. They are wulfen in modified Mk X armor. Ta da!

Edited 18 hours ago by Lord Abaia
HeadlessCross beat me to it.

[WARMASTER_]

10 hours ago, Crimson Longinus said:

 

People can be passionate about the hobby in different ways. Like the person probably wanted to make the best looking 13th company force they could, one that captures the feel of the concept, and for that using bigger primaris bodies was the right choice. Not everyone's passion about 40K manifest in form of caring about minutiae; I personally don't even though I know most of it. I care about the general feel, vibe and themes, not in what exact millennia the exact curve of this particular marine kneepad was introduced. (At least until the lore gets retconned or contradicted.) This is one reason why I could never get into HH; that game's fanbase seem to mainly consist of such rivet counters that agonise over tedious "lore accuracy" or trivial details. 

 

Same with the discussion about primaris introduction to SW here. I just don't care. Primaris are just better looking and better scaled space marines. I really wish GW never tried to explain it in the lore, I think it has caused more unnecessary controversy than "this is how our marine models now look like, deal with it" would have. 

 

 

I never said they can’t be passionate in different ways, my point still stands though making a 13th company force is a bit of a lore deep dive they had one awesome index allll the way back in the Eye of Terra book so it’s a surprise given that most hobbyists into those sort of deep dives usually want to recreate it to the lore specs as that’s usually what got them interested in the first place

 

I’m just saying I get why he’d get comments as to why they’re primaris, you could make a fantastic lore accurate army with the new heresy range + chaos bits but it’s really not that deep as others have said it’s his army his choice  
 

I strongly disagree that primaris are just better looking space marines though the new heresy range is fantastic to a veteran player like myself especially those new MKII’s, though as your view of the HH community appears to be hyperbolic I’d rather not get into it and derail the thread 

Edited 12 hours ago by WARMASTER_
Said the wrong book

[Evil Eye]

Taking exception to Primaris 13th Company isn't "rivet counting" though. Primaris weren't even a thing when the 13th Company rules were added (I forget if it was Eye of Terror or Codex: Armageddon). It's the equivalent of modelling a WW2 tank diorama and giving the crew P90s. The least he could have done is converted/resculpted them to de-Primaris the models a bit.

 

Still not as bad as a (really well-painted) diorama I saw that showed Sanguinius surrounded by Primaris Blood Angels. That one hurt.

[Karhedron]

5 hours ago, Wispy said:

It's a personal army. Who cares.

 

100% this! 

 

When in doubt, always refer to the First Rule of modelling:

 

They are your models so build and paint them how you like. 

[HeadlessCross]

1 hour ago, Evil Eye said:

Taking exception to Primaris 13th Company isn't "rivet counting" though. Primaris weren't even a thing when the 13th Company rules were added (I forget if it was Eye of Terror or Codex: Armageddon). It's the equivalent of modelling a WW2 tank diorama and giving the crew P90s. The least he could have done is converted/resculpted them to de-Primaris the models a bit.

 

Still not as bad as a (really well-painted) diorama I saw that showed Sanguinius surrounded by Primaris Blood Angels. That one hurt.

Does that WW2 tank crew travel through a wormhole where time doesn't matter?

[Evil Eye]

3 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

Does that WW2 tank crew travel through a wormhole where time doesn't matter?

Missing the point comically but OK.

 

Point is, if you're gonna do a project calling back to a specific period-piece, put the effort in to do it right.

[RagnarökNRoll]

18 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

Missing the point comically but OK.

 

Point is, if you're gonna do a project calling back to a specific period-piece, put the effort in to do it right.

I can't say they are. One is a setting where historical accuracy is the whole point. This hobby has room for you to make your own stories, and that's what has been done here. We should never be this eager to dunk on someone else's hobby project like this. It's unbecoming of us all. 

[Wispy]

Edit: double post 

Edited 10 hours ago by Wispy

[Wispy]

2 hours ago, Evil Eye said:

Taking exception to Primaris 13th Company isn't "rivet counting" though. Primaris weren't even a thing when the 13th Company rules were added (I forget if it was Eye of Terror or Codex: Armageddon). It's the equivalent of modelling a WW2 tank diorama and giving the crew P90s. The least he could have done is converted/resculpted them to de-Primaris the models a bit.

 

Still not as bad as a (really well-painted) diorama I saw that showed Sanguinius surrounded by Primaris Blood Angels. That one hurt.

I say a third time, it's a personal army, who cares? Obviously you care, but you really shouldn't because it's not your army. 

[Nephaston]

12 hours ago, Lord Abaia said:

Mk X armor on wulfen models is pretty easy to justify:

• The 13th company goes into the Eye of Terror. Everyone goes full wulfen and fights for 10k warp years. They don't have infrastructure to repair damaged armor in the Eye.
• They get out of the Eye and are reunited with the M41 Space Wolves chapter in the the events of Curse of the Wulfen/Wrath of Magnus.
• The wulfen need new armor. The chapter armorers use Mk X as a base for making armor that fits werewolf physiology because it's big (werewolf makes you big).

They aren't primaris wulfen. They are wulfen in modified Mk X armor. Ta da!

 

Also, something like that already happened in the most recent Uriel Ventris book; Pasanius Lysane, known for his far above average size, wears MkX without ever having crossed the rubicon. Previously he used spare Terminator parts to get a full suit going.

[Blindhamster]

9 hours ago, Evil Eye said:

Missing the point comically but OK.

 

Point is, if you're gonna do a project calling back to a specific period-piece, put the effort in to do it right.

honestly, the attitude is pretty depressing.

The person clearly did put in effort, and clearly doesn't agree with your assessment. Which is their right, as its THEIR hobby too.