Space Wolves refresh

[Lionsbane]

Quote

I agree and I am surprised that space marine divergent chapters don't function this way. DG, EC ,WE and so on are their own thing. they don't use whatever basic CSM have for the most part.

Making Space Wolves a separate Codex again makes sense. But imagine all the Xenos players who would cry...  I suppose at least now when they bitch about 'you already got a million releases and now more?' I can honestly say none of those are Space Wolves models. They literally don't get the Space Wolves keyword and don't count. Maybe there is a good side to this. 

[Focslain]

15 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

 

I think the restrictions are in the main SM codex. It says if you take Space Wolves as your chapter then you cannot take Chaplains, Apothecaries, Tactical squads etc.

 

12 hours ago, jaxom said:

Huh, I'm curious about your feelings on the matter. I took a look at the leaked codex and I felt it promoted taking Space Wolf specific units, maybe backed up by C:SM heavy weapon squads as Long Fangs. 

After catching up, had to see if answered/corrected. 

The latest FAQ at time of writting has Apothacary, Tactical Squad and Devestator Squad on the SW restriction list. So unless they change this, we have lost the Long Fangs. 

[Orange Knight]

57 minutes ago, Lionsbane said:

Making Space Wolves a separate Codex again makes sense. But imagine all the Xenos players who would cry...  I suppose at least now when they bitch about 'you already got a million releases and now more?' I can honestly say none of those are Space Wolves models. They literally don't get the Space Wolves keyword and don't count. Maybe there is a good side to this. 

 

I think this can happen, but not in this edition.

 

In the case of the 4 big divergent chapters, they should still have access to the vast majority of generic units, and those generic units should be integrated better with the unique options available to them. 

 

Imo, this could better balance the game as the various units can be costed appropriately for the benefits unlocked by the additional options and rules. Something for the future perhaps, or maybe not. GW are not consistent lol.

[Mogger351]

5 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

 

I think this can happen, but not in this edition.

 

In the case of the 4 big divergent chapters, they should still have access to the vast majority of generic units, and those generic units should be integrated better with the unique options available to them. 

 

Imo, this could better balance the game as the various units can be costed appropriately for the benefits unlocked by the additional options and rules. Something for the future perhaps, or maybe not. GW are not consistent lol.

I'll take the hate, but the marine range is too big generally and there's a lack of room for new niche units.

 

Taking longfangs as an example, would it break the bank to make a new unit for wolves that could have a combination of hellblaster, desolators, infernus and maybe even eradicators to replace them? But then lose those units in their entirety as the payoff.

 

Did the storm wolf have to die when the other 2 flyers could have been cut from a hypothetical SW dex?

 

And so on. Imagine having an actual army rule that isn't a borrowed core one and a lesser point tied to 3 detachments.

[Chapter Master Valrak]

1 hour ago, TheVoidDragon said:

Just seen Valrak's latest random theorizing video saying that because a stratagem for Space Wolf units specifically saying it excludes monster units, and there are no Space Wolfs with the monster keyword but Space Marine Primarchs get that, that it's a tease of Russ being added. It's been years since i've played 40k so I don't really know how things work anymore, is there some other more reasonable explanation for that being there?

 

No idea what you're talking, I made no such video, now Foilrak on the other hand...

 

 

[Northern Walker]

1 hour ago, Bryan Blaire said:

It does seem like they have gotten in over their heads with the number of factions they are trying to support, especially with their insistent focus on competitive play (which I feel detracts from the overall game).

I totally agree, the pushing of competetive play to the forefront has meant we've lost something that I thought was very precious from older editions - the collaborative experience of telling a story, rather than a me vs you contest.

 

To me, winning is getting an evening of beer, snacks and warhammer with the lads, whether I'm victorious in the battle is just an aside. It feels like the game is now geared to be rather different from that.

[Lionsbane]

Quote

To me, winning is getting an evening of beer, snacks and warhammer with the lads, whether I'm victorious in the battle is just an aside. It feels like the game is now geared to be rather different from that.

And getting worse all the time.

[SvenIronhand]

I, for one, like having Intercessors in my SW army.

[HeadlessCross]

11 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

 

Yeah I find it hard to imagine seeing this codex in the context of 10th and being upset. I think it goes to prove you can't please everyone. Seems like a strong codex that pushes playing the SW how you would expect. 

Except for the fact that you can't even attach a regular Terminator Librarian to Wolf Guard Terminators. 

[HeadlessCross]

2 hours ago, Lionsbane said:

Making Space Wolves a separate Codex again makes sense. But imagine all the Xenos players who would cry...  I suppose at least now when they bitch about 'you already got a million releases and now more?' I can honestly say none of those are Space Wolves models. They literally don't get the Space Wolves keyword and don't count. Maybe there is a good side to this. 

At least with Space Wolves I can buy the argument for a different codex, but that's just going to lead to the Angels and Black Templars players crying that they didn't get the special treatment when they're really not different enough to warrant it. 

[Karhedron]

The Codex has 20 units in it so here are my initial thoughts on our bespoke units.

 

Logan

Our shiny new centrepiece model has some interesting rules. He allows you to bring 1 SW unit in from Strategic Reserves counting the turn as being 1 higher than normal. This means that units in SR can come on from the flanks in T1 or in the enemy's DZ in T2. This will be a big bonus in Saga of the Bold as it virtually guarantees you can Activate your Saga at the end of T2 at the latest which is pretty huge. The cheapest option is probably 3 HeadTakers and then use the "Saga is Born" stratagem to make them count as a Character unit until your next Command phase. Or you can splash out and have a unit of Grey Hunter with attached Character partying behind your opponent's lines.

 

His second ability is to increase the cost of enemy Strats with 12" by 1CP. This can really throw a spanner in the works of some armies who rely on their Strats to get jobs done. The fact that he is a durable model means he can happily go with his Wolf Guard buddies and trudge into the mid-field to get a big chunk of the enemy's army into range of that ability. 

 

I do not see him as a must-take unit like Calgar or Azrael but he has some good abilities but requires building around. I expect to see him pop up a lot in Saga of the Bold builds.

 

Bjorn

The oldest dude in 40K before Primarchs started coming back. He has lost his ability to increase enemy CP costs (that now belongs to Logan) but instead he now gives +1CP every command phase. This is a solid ability on every model that has it so expect to see the old guy in a lot of lists. He will probably crop up in Saga of the Bold lists where he gets extra rerolls due to being a Character but is not a bad choice in any list. He is also one of the few SW Character units that can potentially destroy targets at range allowing you to trigger your Saga sooner rather than later.

 

Sadly he has lost his Lascannon option as he would have made the perfect backfield unit otherwise. As it stands, MM, Helfrost and Assault Cannon are all about equal. I would go for MM or HFC in a Saga of the Bold detachment simply as the rerolls are more impactful on powerful, low ROF guns. 180 points is quite expensive but he brings a lot to the party.

 

Ulric

I am not feeling Ulric in this edition. He has a couple of interesting abilities but overall, I think the vanilla Wolf Priest will be the better choice 9 times out of 10.

 

Njal

I am not quite sure what to make of Njal as he works very differently from previous iterations. Instead of hiding your units behind storm clouds, he now makes your infantry skip across the Battlefield faster than Eldar. The only unit he really synergises with is Grey Hunters who can now speed across the table while firing at full effect in order to make use of their prodigious OC. I can see this combo being quite good on a flank to take an Objective. This probably works best in Saga of the Hunter where they can use the Territorial Advantage strat to Sticky an Objective and then move on. This is quite an expensive combo though and requires a CP. I am not sure it is better than a couple of units of Intercessors who can sticky for free.

 

He also gets the ability to slap a debuff on an enemy unit hit by his Living Lightning and inflict a -6" range on their shooting attacks. This is going to be somewhat situational and is also all-or-nothing. I would probably have preferred a simple -1 to Hit instead.

 

Ragnar

Ragnar is an absolute blender and pretty cost-effective at 90 points. Slap him with a unit of Blood Claws and the whole unit gets full rerolls to Wound. Stick them in a Land Raider and they are good to go (or you can rely on their native Advance + Charge if you are confident of dodging fire). He can also work with Head Takers but I think they are better off with a Wolf Priest (see below). I expect to see him a lot in Saga of the Bold lists as using Ragnar + BCs to charge your OOM target will result in a bucket load of attacks with full rerolls to Hit and Wound. That should get your Boasts flowing pretty quickly.

 

Arjac

Arjac is a beast in melee and gives WG Terminators back much of the punch they lose from not getting Power/Chain Fists or Thunder Hammers. Arjac can Hammer for everyone! This guy can cripple a Knight in round of melee or solo a damaged one.  He gives his unit a 4+ Fights on Death. WG Terminators are second only to Deathwing Knights in terms of durability and Arjac gives them a melee punch that opponents will fear. He can punch up into powerful targets while the Terminators excel at killing elite infantry with their MCPWs. If you want to drop a Terminator brick in the midfield, you will want to at least consider putting Arjac in it. The only downside is that he cannot join a unit with Logan which would have been thematic (but probably overpowered).

 

Wolf Priest

The +1 to Wound of a Chaplain and the revival of an Apothecary for the bargain price of 70 points. Kerching! Put this guy in an Impulsor with a squad of Head Takers and he boosts their ability to punch up into tough targets while also potentially reviving a 3W 3+/4++ model every turn. He really does not need an Enhancement to do his job which makes him an ideal caddy for utility upgrades. Skjald in Saga of the Bold is a good fit to keep the CPs flowing while Swift Hunter in Saga of the Hunter will give his unit Scout 7" to help get them to their nominated target.

 

Iron Priest

Once again, like a Techmarine but better. He gets the usual restore D3 wounds but instead of giving vehicles +1 to Hit, he gives them Rapid Fire 1. This is potentially really strong on units with several powerful 1A weapons. Probably the biggest beneficiary is the Predator Annihilator but Land Raiders, Destructors and Lancers all like this ability.

 

Wolf Guard Battle Leader

Despite being a Lieutenant-equivalent in lore, this guy has full Captain stats and rules designed for mulching stuff. I quite like the idea of him in a unit of Grey Hunters as they have plenty of attacks in both shooting and melee to proc the Sustained Hits 1  and rerolling 1s to Hit at close range is just gravy. A bargain at just 65 points (possibly too much of a bargain in fact, I suspect to see him get a price bump on the Day 1 errata).

[Moonstalker]

46 minutes ago, SvenIronhand said:

I, for one, like having Intercessors in my SW army.

 

There's plenty of vanilla marine units I like.  I just hope that there is a way, whether some part of the codex we haven't seen yet (doubtful) or by FAQ where we're able to grant the Space Wolves keyword to units and characters.  Even if I can't put a Captain in with a Grey Hunter squad, I want my Captain/Lt/etc to be able to contribute to completing Boasts for SotB.

[Karhedron]

38 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

Except for the fact that you can't even attach a regular Terminator Librarian to Wolf Guard Terminators. 

 

No but you can still take them and attach them to regular Terminators if you want. You just don't get quite as much synergy with the Detachment rules but they still get some and function perfectly well.

[Crimson Longinus]

I don't get why both Grey Hunters and Blood Claws are at minimum ten man units. It makes them unwieldy and too expensive and they cannot ride an Impulsor. 

I really, really hope this is not a sign of GW making all marine infantry that is sold in ten man boxes as ten man units... 

 

 

Edited 7 hours ago by Crimson Longinus

[Wispy]

Dang I really like that viking-style sword.

[Karhedron]

14 minutes ago, Crimson Longinus said:

I don't get why both Grey Hunters and Blood Claws are at minimum ten man units. It makes them unwieldy and too expensive and they cannot ride an Impulsor. I really, really hope this is not a sign of GW making all marine infantry that is sold in ten man boxes as ten man units... 

 

Yes, this is really annoying. It also make Saga of the Bold quite hard an Infantry unit + Character will usually cost a minimum of 200 points. No taking a WGBL with 5 Grey Hunters to trigger boasts cheaply.

 

I am also annoyed that Blood Claws are only 10/20. I would love to take 15 with a Character in a LR Crusader. It seems an unnecessarily restrictive design choice. I think it is dictated by the design of the sprues. Pack Leaders have fixed weapons and there is only 1 pack leader model (with associate wargear) per 10 man unit. Basically the unit design seems to have fallen victim of the policy of only running what is in the box. No more, no less. 

 

The good thing is that most Marine units are designed to build 5/10 out of the box so I don't think this will roll across to Codex units.

Edited 7 hours ago by Karhedron

[HeadlessCross]

35 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

No but you can still take them and attach them to regular Terminators if you want. You just don't get quite as much synergy with the Detachment rules but they still get some and function perfectly well.

You're missing the point on purpose. 

[Crimson Longinus]

12 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

I think it is dictated by the design of the sprues. Pack Leaders have fixed weapons and there is only 1 pack leader model (with associate wargear) per 10 man unit. Basically the unit design seems to have fallen victim of the policy of only running what is in the box. No more, no less. 

 

The good thing is that most Marine units are designed to build 5/10 out of the box so I don't think this will roll across to Codex units.

 

But aren't these the same? There are two of each sprue, so there must be double the parts for the pack leader?

[Karhedron]

7 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

You're missing the point on purpose. 

 

No, I understand. I just feel that the significance of the point is being significantly exaggerated.

 

Different people are entitled to different opinions. I respect yours but the fact I feel differently does not mean I am deliberately missing the point.

[TheMawr]

13 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

Yes, this is really annoying. It also make Saga of the Bold quite hard an Infantry unit + Character will usually cost a minimum of 200 points. No taking a WGBL with 5 Grey Hunters to trigger boasts cheaply.

 

I am also annoyed that Blood Claws are only 10/20. I would love to take 15 with a Character in a LR Crusader. It seems an unnecessarily restrictive design choice. I think it is dictated by the design of the sprues. Pack Leaders have fixed weapons and there is only 1 pack leader model (with associate wargear) per 10 man unit. Basically the unit design seems to have fallen victim of the policy of only running what is in the box. No more, no less. 

 

The good thing is that most Marine units are designed to build 5/10 out of the box so I don't think this will roll across to Codex units.

 

Unless they coincidentally only used the same 5man half of a 10man kit twice for the first reveal show, Both spacewolf kits follow standard marine sprue design :

 

So Im pretty sure its just double 5man sprues and thus double the sergeant equipment.

 

[jaxom]

32 minutes ago, Crimson Longinus said:

I don't get why both Grey Hunters and Blood Claws are at minimum ten man units. It makes them unwieldy and too expensive and they cannot ride an Impulsor. 

I really, really hope this is not a sign of GW making all marine infantry that is sold in ten man boxes as ten man units... 

 

 

 

18 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

Yes, this is really annoying. It also make Saga of the Bold quite hard an Infantry unit + Character will usually cost a minimum of 200 points. No taking a WGBL with 5 Grey Hunters to trigger boasts cheaply.

 

I am also annoyed that Blood Claws are only 10/20. I would love to take 15 with a Character in a LR Crusader. It seems an unnecessarily restrictive design choice. I think it is dictated by the design of the sprues. Pack Leaders have fixed weapons and there is only 1 pack leader model (with associate wargear) per 10 man unit. Basically the unit design seems to have fallen victim of the policy of only running what is in the box. No more, no less. 

 

The good thing is that most Marine units are designed to build 5/10 out of the box so I don't think this will roll across to Codex units.

I think it’s a nostalgia design for the old lore that Wolf units are packs which decrease in size due to loses over time. A 20 man Blood Claws becomes a 10 man Grey Hunters becomes a 5 man Long Fangs. Not that great for the actual game, but it’s not out of left field.

[Mogger351]

1 minute ago, Karhedron said:

 

No, I understand. I just feel that the significance of the point is being significantly exaggerated.

 

Different people are entitled to different opinions. I respect yours but the fact I feel differently does not mean I am deliberately missing the point.

Really oversimplifying it I see 3 real options on the various opinions:

 

1. I want a Rune Priest (specifically) to lead my Wolf Guard (specifically)

2. I want a Librarian (don't care about the name/unit) to join my terminators (of whatever flavour) and all be part of the army via army rules 

3. I can attach a Librarian (now space wolf by rules) to my none-space wolf terminators

 

This falls over now for a few reasons, namely they don't need 3 different terminator units, with different faction keywords slapped on. Arguably with minimal tweaking they could have got rid of assault and tactical terminators and simply had wolf guard. They could then simply allow librarians to join them and note in the front of the supplement "librarians are referred to as rune priests and gain the Space Wolves keyword, they may join XYZ units" and repeat that for the 905 marine characters as needed.

 

But that's a lot of editing for a lot of faffing about, they also could simply not have wolf guard terminators and simply use the existing profiles with some wolf bits on. It gets messy fast, but this is why I advocated a stand alone codex.

[blue_raptor55]

8 minutes ago, Wispy said:

Dang I really like that viking-style sword.

 

 

That guy stood out to me too; stellar paintjob on him. I'm new to wolves, anyone know if there's a lore reason behind the red faceplate?

[Dorn of War]

4 hours ago, TheVoidDragon said:

Just seen Valrak's latest random theorizing video saying that because a stratagem for Space Wolf units specifically saying it excludes monster units, and there are no Space Wolfs with the monster keyword but Space Marine Primarchs get that, that it's a tease of Russ being added. It's been years since i've played 40k so I don't really know how things work anymore, is there some other more reasonable explanation for that being there?

 

It's an interesting bit of wording to pick up on. However, I still think that the book Ashes of Prospero (2018) literally tells us which Primarchs are going to be released initially - which would mean that Khan and Corax are the next loyalist Primarchs to return. 

[Northern Walker]

6 minutes ago, blue_raptor55 said:

 

That guy stood out to me too; stellar paintjob on him. I'm new to wolves, anyone know if there's a lore reason behind the red faceplate?

Probably from Bran Redmaw's company?