Help with Sons CSM

[stev]

Hello, so I have been advised to post this here as well. 

 

This is a follow on from my previous post that I was advised to ask here.

 

To summarise quickly, my 3 boys have recently gotten into the hobby and started armies, I haven't really played the last 5 or so aditions so was hoping for some advice as they build their armies).

 

We have Chaos Space Marines, Orks and Dark Angels. Ideally trying to get the all to 1000 points, while keeping things fairly balanced.

 

 

The 10 yr old has the following:

 

+ Character +

 

Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour [95pts]: Combi-bolter, Exalted weapon, Mark of Chaos Undivided, Warlord

 

+ Battleline +

 

Legionaries [80pts]: Chaos icon, Mark of Chaos Undivided

 

. Aspiring Champion: Heavy melee weapon, Plasma pistol

. 2x Legionary w/ chainsword: 2x Astartes chainsword, 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Close combat weapon

. Legionary w/ heavy melee weapon

. Legionary w/ other weapon: Flamer

 

Legionaries [160pts]: Chaos icon, Mark of Chaos Undivided

 

. Aspiring Champion: Boltgun, Plasma pistol

. Legionary w/ balefire tome

. 3x Legionary w/ boltgun: 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Boltgun, 3x Close combat weapon

. Legionary w/ other weapon: Missile launcher

 

+ Infantry +

 

Chaos Terminator Squad [185pts]: Mark of Chaos Undivided

 

. Accursed weapon and combi-bolter

. Heavy weapon: Accursed weapon, Reaper autocannon

. 3x Power fist and combi-bolter: 3x Combi-bolter, 3x Power fist

 

++ Total: [520pts] ++

 

His idea is for an army who are opposed to the emperor/imperium but not actively worshipers of Chaos. So very independent (much like himself!). The ideas I guess is a renegade force who are tying to do their own thing but over time due to proximity to the warp and use of its power arr being slowly corrupted unbeknownst to themselves. So preferably no overtly demonic or possessed units. For example the dude with the balefire tome uses it as a tool but has to constantly fight with demonic voices/temptation to do so.

 

He has thought of expanding both legionaries squads to 10 men. Or maybe a squad of berserker, painted in war hound colours, ao his thought is they have the butchers nails but are fighting against being enslaved to khorne (desire for independence again). I dunno how his ideas fit with the official lore but he's enjoying coming up with his on stories.

 

What are your opinions on how he should expand? Again it does t have to be competitive, just something that will be fun and balanced against his brothers.

 

Thanks

 

[N1SB]

Brother Stev, 1st of all, great job being a dad, and thanks for breaking down the details.

 

I think this army's greatest threat would indeed be the Redemptor Dreadnought and Firestrike Servo Turret.  10th edition has seen the rise of Vehicles (and Monsters), so I already had a suggestion in mind for what's been popular with CSM in my meta...then I also saw you mention this:

 

5 hours ago, stev said:

His idea is for an army who are opposed to the emperor/imperium but not actively worshipers of Chaos. So very independent (much like himself!). The ideas I guess is a renegade force who are tying to do their own thing but over time due to proximity to the warp and use of its power arr being slowly corrupted unbeknownst to themselves. So preferably no overtly demonic or possessed units. For example the dude with the balefire tome uses it as a tool but has to constantly fight with demonic voices/temptation to do so.

 

How about 2 old-style, Great Crusade-era Vindicators?  They're in plastic now, thanks to the new edition of Horus Heresy!

 

 

They're actually slightly cheaper than the 40k versions, and it would represent your son's idea of staying away from daemonic influence.

 

The idea is your Loyalist son has a top tier Dreadnought, so CSM's best counter I think is other Vehicles, specifically this.  Your son can also take Predators, but there's also a Firestrike Servo Turret, and the Vindicator is a little bit tougher.  Whenever I take something like this, I take at least 2, because 1 will just get blown up before it can do anything.

 

But this is the part that really excited me:

 

5 hours ago, stev said:

He has thought of expanding both legionaries squads to 10 men. Or maybe a squad of berserker, painted in war hound colours, ao his thought is they have the butchers nails but are fighting against being enslaved to khorne (desire for independence again). I dunno how his ideas fit with the official lore but he's enjoying coming up with his on stories.

 

 

Your son's interpretation, imho, is spot on, based on what I've been reading in recent novels.

 

In the Primarchs series novel, Angron: Slave of Nuceria, we see why Angron resented the Emperor.  Whereas Mortarion hated the Emperor for like stealing his victory, and people thought Angron was the same, it's implied that's not the case.  Angron was found on Nuceria, was told he had to fight as a gladiator, thus learned what slavery was, because he was a slave.  When the Emperor found Angron on Nuceria, then told him he had to fight as a Primarch, Angron already knew what slavery was, and realised he was STILL a slave...but to the Emperor now.  Angron sees the Emperor was just as bad as the slavemaster he rescued him from was.  Your son's Berserkers sees Khorne just as bad as the Emperor he rescued them from was.

 

In the Siege of Terra series novel, Saturnine, it was the defenders of Saturnine Wall with the Blood Angels and their Primarch that saw the true side of Angron...and they were in disbelief.  They expected a barbarian, but Angron stepped forward, alone, to offer them a chance to surrender.  They actually didn't understand what they were seeing and hearing, but when they finally snapped out of it, they rained down Lascannon fire and killed him...only to be resurrected in his daemonic form.  It was Sanguinius, the great psyker and his "brother", that understood.  He saw into Angron's mind and that split-second where he died before he was reborn was the only peace, the only freedom he had ever known.  The closest Angron ever felt like that was on Nuceria, before its lords were about to quash the slave rebellion he lead...which the Emperor denied him.

 

It blows my mind that your youngest saw, in the same way that Angron, the least academic of the Primarchs was also the only one that saw the obvious, that he and the rest of the Imperium were all slaves to the "Master of Mankind".  Now, the Loyalists see the Emperor as a good master, but nonetheless.

 

Perhaps it really does take a child to see that the Emperor has no clothes.

 

So a Heresy-era Vindicator or 2, like I suggest, isn't just a good game unit, it's like a piece to this story your son's crafting as well.

Edited March 29 by N1SB

[HeadlessCross]

1. Expanding the Legionaires to 10 man squads is a bad idea. They gain absolutely nothing from it (AKA no extra Power Fists and your next special range weapon HAS to be different because reasons) and are basically caddies for a Lord to do his thing. Keeping them at five dudes is the best thing for them, as well as keeping then strictly melee. Their range output is objectively bad. 

2. Berserker Marines unfortunately don't gain a lot from being used as an allied unit. They won't get the Pacts and their key rule is the Blood Surge move, which you can get from using Accursed Cultists instead. They're also just not tough for the points. Possessed or Chosen are probably the next Power Armor melee unit you want to use. 

3. If the plan for the Terminators is to keep all the Combi-Bolters, the Terminator Lord should be swapped for a Sorcerer instead. 

 

So I'd expand via Point 3 and Point 2, and after swapping the range Legionnaires for melee ones get some Rhinos. Then you could maybe look at battle tanks. Vindicators are the best one but obviously more expensive vs Predators, but there's so many advantages it's hard not to make that choice.