New inceptor ability idea

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Their ability to DS closer to enemies is an awkward one.

 

they don’t have any particular need to do so, other than to potentially land on a primary to prevent an enemy from scoring if their shooting fails to kill all of them.

 

I’m not a huge fan of the abilities that allow units to fly or skim over an enemy and cause MWs, but I think it would be more thematic for them to have something of that sort.

 

maybe call it flying overwatch? Any unit they move over they can overwatch for free, but they can only target one unit with it.

 

gives me visions of them doing a low level flyby shooting.

or maybe something that gives them a bonus in melee against other <fly> units like a 2” engagement range aura making it easier for them to land charges against flying targets as well as zoning out enemies a little bit. (Think extra strong booster jet wash needed for the extra weight of gravis keeps the enemy further at bay or something.)

[HeadlessCross]

Terrible idea. Inceptors are good because of their offense AND the Deep Strike ability. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

4 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

Terrible idea. Inceptors are good because of their offense AND the Deep Strike ability. 

Their deep strike ability is almost completely pointless.

it would make sense for a unit with some actual melee capability but there’s not much reason to get them within 12” let alone 6 of an enemy unit when they have an 18” range

[jaxom]

8 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Their ability to DS closer to enemies is an awkward one.

 

they don’t have any particular need to do so, other than to potentially land on a primary to prevent an enemy from scoring if their shooting fails to kill all of them.

 

I think their value is forcing the opponent to keep a unit on their backfield objective which can counter the OC of the Inceptors after taking a round of shooting from them. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

9 hours ago, jaxom said:

 

I think their value is forcing the opponent to keep a unit on their backfield objective which can counter the OC of the Inceptors after taking a round of shooting from them. 

Idk if anyone is actually doing that though. Everyone I’ve played screens for the normal 9” DS range.

[HeadlessCross]

22 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Their deep strike ability is almost completely pointless.

it would make sense for a unit with some actual melee capability but there’s not much reason to get them within 12” let alone 6 of an enemy unit when they have an 18” range

They don't need melee capability when they have that shooting (and melee is a moot point when the ability explicitly prohibits charges). The point is to scare the opponent and claim objectives faster. Anything that survived a round of shooting with them is gonna be crippled and might even die to 18 S4 attacks in melee anyway. 

[Karhedron]

18 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Idk if anyone is actually doing that though. Everyone I’ve played screens for the normal 9” DS range.

 

If your opponents are using units to screen then that impedes their ability to fight, move freely or even score. Screening is absolutely possible but if the threat of your DSing units makes your opponents change their battle plans then you have an advantage in that they are reacting to what you might do instead of doing what they want to do. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

On 4/18/2025 at 2:57 AM, Karhedron said:

 

If your opponents are using units to screen then that impedes their ability to fight, move freely or even score. Screening is absolutely possible but if the threat of your DSing units makes your opponents change their battle plans then you have an advantage in that they are reacting to what you might do instead of doing what they want to do. 

And there’s better units for that ability for. Like VGV.

[jaxom]

1 hour ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Like VGV

Please explain further. I was under the impression that they couldn’t reliably make charges when dropping in which was why Inceptors were favored; inceptors are a shooting threat.

[Tacitus]

4 hours ago, jaxom said:

Please explain further. I was under the impression that they couldn’t reliably make charges when dropping in which was why Inceptors were favored; inceptors are a shooting threat.

Well, that and Heirloom weapons suck.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

17 hours ago, Tacitus said:

Well, that and Heirloom weapons suck.

But close combat weapons are some how superior?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

22 hours ago, jaxom said:

Please explain further. I was under the impression that they couldn’t reliably make charges when dropping in which was why Inceptors were favored; inceptors are a shooting threat.

A shooting threat doesn’t need to be 6” from a target to shoot.

 

VGV have better melee and their shields give them a better chance to make it to the next turn where they can charge, and then once in combat have more attacks with better weapons.

Edited April 20 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Tacitus]

5 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

A shooting threat doesn’t need to be 6” from a target to shoot.

 

VGV have better melee and their shields give them a better chance to make it to the next turn where they can charge, and then once in combat have more attacks with better weapons.

Not really.  Their melee weapons are "better" but VGV 6" away have 4 S5 -1 D1 attacks when they make the chip shot charge.  Inceptors have 3 S5 -1 D2 shots with SH2 - which works out to kinda-sorta 4 to equal the VGV just at D2 (And before you add Twin Linked etc) And the Inceptors will still have 3 Close Combat Weapons if they get their gimme charge off.  This also assumes the VGV can Deep Strike into Gimme range for the charge.  The "benefit" for the VGV are 5/10 models for 10/20 points cheaper than the 3/6 Inceptors and the "extra" attacks you get from the "extra" bodies.  VGV are just subpar for most Chapters/Formations that don't really synergize with them. 

[DemonGSides]

9 hours ago, Tacitus said:

Not really.  Their melee weapons are "better" but VGV 6" away have 4 S5 -1 D1 attacks when they make the chip shot charge.  Inceptors have 3 S5 -1 D2 shots with SH2 - which works out to kinda-sorta 4 to equal the VGV just at D2 (And before you add Twin Linked etc) And the Inceptors will still have 3 Close Combat Weapons if they get their gimme charge off.  This also assumes the VGV can Deep Strike into Gimme range for the charge.  The "benefit" for the VGV are 5/10 models for 10/20 points cheaper than the 3/6 Inceptors and the "extra" attacks you get from the "extra" bodies.  VGV are just subpar for most Chapters/Formations that don't really synergize with them. 

 

VGV are pretty meh, for sure, but inceptors don't charge.

VGV having just straight up better melee weapons I think pretty obviously gives both units their niche, and they don't really overlap.  Inceptors are for clearing small squads from close range to then pick up an objective eventually.  VGV are a bygone melee unit that has a little bit of a defensive profile with the storm shields, but even that's not really enough to save them.

My hope is that when Primaris VGV comes out, they give them the Bladeguard weapon statline.  Probably won't, since then why would you bother taking BGV, but a man can hope.

[Karhedron]

8 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

My hope is that when Primaris VGV comes out, they give them the Bladeguard weapon statline.  Probably won't, since then why would you bother taking BGV, but a man can hope.

 

Blood Angels have flying Bladeguard in the form of Sanguinary Guard, I can't really see those being made generic. Sternguard lost their specific ranged weapons in favour of the mediocre Combi-weapons and now see minimal play as a result. In most cases Intercessors are better value for the points (especially with their new 4-shot rule). Van Vets have the same problem with Jump Assault Intercessor. Neither squad is good enough to be worth the points premium over the Battleline counterparts.

[DemonGSides]

2 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

Blood Angels have flying Bladeguard in the form of Sanguinary Guard, I can't really see those being made generic. Sternguard lost their specific ranged weapons in favour of the mediocre Combi-weapons and now see minimal play as a result. In most cases Intercessors are better value for the points (especially with their new 4-shot rule). Van Vets have the same problem with Jump Assault Intercessor. Neither squad is good enough to be worth the points premium over the Battleline counterparts.

 

Sure but non BA chapters don't have Sanguinary Guard, and it might be worth revisting the stat lines as SG have +1 S and an extra AP on their sword compared to BGV, so they're just outright BETTER than Bladeguard.

I think Vanguard Vets could live with 4A, S5, -2 AP and 2 damage and not be treading on the toes of SG too badly.  I don't expect them to survive as a 5 man unit, unfortunately.

[Karhedron]

I think Van Vets will stay close to their Firstborn incarnation in the same way Sternguard did so 5/10, 2W and in the low 20s ppm.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

12 hours ago, Tacitus said:

Not really.  Their melee weapons are "better" but VGV 6" away have 4 S5 -1 D1 attacks when they make the chip shot charge.  Inceptors have 3 S5 -1 D2 shots with SH2 - which works out to kinda-sorta 4 to equal the VGV just at D2 (And before you add Twin Linked etc) And the Inceptors will still have 3 Close Combat Weapons if they get their gimme charge off.  This also assumes the VGV can Deep Strike into Gimme range for the charge.  The "benefit" for the VGV are 5/10 models for 10/20 points cheaper than the 3/6 Inceptors and the "extra" attacks you get from the "extra" bodies.  VGV are just subpar for most Chapters/Formations that don't really synergize with them. 

Guns at 18” range and no RF, means there’s no point in DSing them 6” except to open them up to be charged.

[Karhedron]

1 hour ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Guns at 18” range and no RF, means there’s no point in DSing them 6” except to open them up to be charged.

 

It is not so much that you want to get closer, the shorter range makes is harder to screen them out. 

[Tacitus]

11 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Guns at 18” range and no RF, means there’s no point in DSing them 6” except to open them up to be charged.

No combat point (on that turn).  I doubt guard would charge them, but I'd absolutely charge GEQ on my next turn.  Or Heroic Intervention them if possible.  GEQ wound Gravis on 6's and PISTOL means you can still shoot them.  Plus there's potential to use that 6" for other placement benefits like LOS and Objectives.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

On 4/21/2025 at 11:24 PM, Tacitus said:

No combat point (on that turn).  I doubt guard would charge them, but I'd absolutely charge GEQ on my next turn.  Or Heroic Intervention them if possible.  GEQ wound Gravis on 6's and PISTOL means you can still shoot them.  Plus there's potential to use that 6" for other placement benefits like LOS and Objectives.

Why are you talking about guard? You’re shooting them off the board before you have an opportunity to charge them…

[HeadlessCross]

On 4/21/2025 at 9:02 AM, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Guns at 18” range and no RF, means there’s no point in DSing them 6” except to open them up to be charged.

Except that it helps claim objectives faster and makes it difficult to screen against them. 

 

Like, everyone here is saying you're incorrect on your evaluation of the ability, and competitive players think the ability is great as well. 

[Tacitus]

2 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Why are you talking about guard? You’re shooting them off the board before you have an opportunity to charge them…

Well, it was GEQ (i.e. S3 melee back into your T6) but since you said so- 3 shots per dude, 6 dudes, is 18 shots, 3 crit for SH2, 24 shots. 6 misses = 18 hits, about 15 wounds  You're not reliably shooting 20+ model units off the board.

[Karhedron]

2 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

competitive players think the ability is great as well. 

 

Inceptors have had at least one points hike since the SM Codex dropped so they were definitely good enough to need adjusting.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

5 hours ago, Tacitus said:

Well, it was GEQ (i.e. S3 melee back into your T6) but since you said so- 3 shots per dude, 6 dudes, is 18 shots, 3 crit for SH2, 24 shots. 6 misses = 18 hits, about 15 wounds  You're not reliably shooting 20+ model units off the board.

I’ve not seen a single person using 20 man blobs, and rarely seen lists with them online.

IMHO 20 blobs are over all pointless.

Edited April 23 by W.A.Rorie