World Eaters Codex Leak

[jaxom]

26 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

It absolutely did not LMAO

"Distraction Carnifex" is the term used to designate something that looks like a threat but in reality it isn't, hence just being a distraction. 

18 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Distraction carnifex really just meant threat overload

 

 

I disagree. Distraction carnifex is different than threat overload.

The unit is a threat that the opponent *must* deal with to execute the actions they need to win. Simultaneously, the unit is not vital to your direct plans. A carnifex which cannot score objectives, but can wipe a unit holding an objective, for example. Or an Assassin which can snipe an enemy CP generation character upon which the army hinges.

 

The secondary part of the definition (which comes and goes over time) is dealing with the unit *requires* spending more resources on it than its points cost would dictate.

The OG distraction carnifex did all of the above, and because it was undercosted it paired very well with threat overload. A more modern example would be Iron Hands Leviathan. It had to be dealt with, but it was the rest of the army scoring objectives.

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

I'd agree with that. 

 

I do miss the days of distraction carnifexs. I don't often see the Carnifex itself used much these days though. 

 

I would sometimes try to do both back in 4th - 7th by having 3 Land Raiders in 1500 point games. 

 

So is Angron the most killy? It seems out of the four that Angron should be the most brutal one. 

 

The best threat overload by the way is Imperial Fists. A single Imperial Fist is so awesome its like having a million Land Raiders. A great distraction Carnifex is the yellow of Imperial Fists. Your opponents will be distracted by the sheer brilliance of yellow which itself is magnified by the even sheerer brilliance of the Imperial Fists themselves. 

[HeadlessCross]

1 hour ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

No, you've missed the point like always. 

 

Distraction carnifex really just meant threat overload, because the 4th edition list could include 6 carnifexes, on top of the hyper fast genestealers and leaping hormagaunts; everything was a threat, but the carnifexes seemed extra scary and soaked up a lot of incidental small arms fire when people tried to focus fire them down, and allowed the smaller (but still every deadly) things in.

 

So using the new world eaters leader with a deep striking unit as a "distraction carnifex" isn't just throwing them up to die and lose points, it's to overwhelm your opponents target priority and have something deadly hit the lines no matter what. The recursion ability really ties into forcing a disproportionate commitment from them. 

You're describing theat overload, not Distraction Carnifex. 

[DemonGSides]

I've always thought of Distraction Carnifex as a unit that looks scary and makes an enemy think it's worth putting a lot of effort into removing while you complete your actual battle plan elsewhere.

 

The distraction part is indicating the 'Pay attention to this instead of my actual plan' and the "Carnifex" part was about something suitably scary LOOKING, even if the stats weren't always in support of that expectation.  They could be strong, but actual statistical damage output was less important than the feeling of ":cuss: I gotta take care of that thing right now because it's scary.", while quite often it wasn't really that scary or was part of your plan to lose anyway. 

[HeadlessCross]

5 hours ago, LSM said:

 

They're BS4+, but have gained a bunch of [Rapid Fire]. On the balance, I think that is an increase to the army's shooting capabilities. 

 

(ie. Predator Twin Lascannons may be BS4+, but now they get 3 shots at 24". Predator Autocannon is 10(!) shots at 24".)

It's now official World Eaters have better Terminators than Emperor's Children. Absolutely wild. Even if they don't have a character to join, it isn't like Emperor's Children had one worth joining to them anyway. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

3 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

You're describing theat overload, not Distraction Carnifex. 

I'm describing how people actually used carnifexes in 4th edition, having played against a lot of tyranid players in 4th edition. Sometimes one of the carnifexes would be tooled up defensively with extra toughness, armour save, and wound to really demand a specific answer (lascannons). This extra tanky build is what people would redefine into the "distraction carnifex" of meme legend, because people would have to focus it before it hit their line (because you'd then chain consolidate from combat to combat, T7 was immune to S3, and they'd score unless under half wounds). But, even still, their output was way lower compared to hormagaunts or stealers that'd sweep pretty much anything they charged right away, which is why it was "wrong" to be distracted by the carnifex. It was always threat overload, and carnifexes were excellent in 4th.

 

And the parallels in use case are there for the new WE leader. The eight bound flavours are much more durable than the berserkers, are still a respectable threat, but don't have the sheer damage ceiling as a full unit of 20 beserkers. You force your opponent to make target priority decisions as a melee army surges super fast up the field. Idk if the new WE can get an average 21.5" threat range like the hormagaunts of old, but their carnifex analogues definitely move way faster than 6". 

[chapter master 454]

The ol' distraction carnifex...oh that's some old magic there.

A unit that is meant to menace your opponent but really doesn't do much in terms of damage. Currently within 10th that isn't something we've seen much as due to how the game works, positioning across the board is important as even a distraction carnifex can sit on an objective and get work done and thus isn't really a distraction. Again, more because of how the game has developed actual objectives and missions to play rather than the rather archaic and random systems we had of prior editions. Goodness...Kill points, those were some wild times. Killhammer...(K2-K1)+(T2-T1)+C=priority...oh boy theres some old magic right there!

 

However, my reminiscing falls off topic. Pardon.

 

Current hotness on discussion around my club is Juggerlord leading bloodcrushers through walls and slamming full force into you because they can move through walls. Naysayers also lament the lack of advance and charge...but...10" movement with re-rollable charge means you have a VERY reasonable 17" threat range. In the Zerker warband you generate a zone of 9" no-go with that auto 8" blood surge. Go ahead, shoot them...I'll even let you get first crack at bat...but that's 20 zerkers (maybe a few less after you shot them) you now have giving you the works in YOUR fight phase.

Though one meme floating is a 3 bloodthirster list with angron. Not anything competitive but just funny to put 4 angry boys on the board.

 

I mean, also to point out that Juggerlords give a 3" engagement range which if for some reason your opponent goofs and lets 20 zerkers get in, that range actually lets you get all 20 in to fight against even 5 man squads, even on barely made charges. And to be clear, in a zerker warband that is going to 100 Str6 attacks which could have some combination of Dev wounds, sustained, lethals or maybe even better pile-in, fight on death.

 

Will the codex be hot top dog, no. I don't think so but it looks fun and got its fair share of power that will make it something you can't dismiss.

[INKS]

1 hour ago, chapter master 454 said:

The ol' distraction carnifex...oh that's some old magic there.

A unit that is meant to menace your opponent but really doesn't do much in terms of damage. Currently within 10th that isn't something we've seen much as due to how the game works, positioning across the board is important as even a distraction carnifex can sit on an objective and get work done and thus isn't really a distraction. Again, more because of how the game has developed actual objectives and missions to play rather than the rather archaic and random systems we had of prior editions. Goodness...Kill points, those were some wild times. Killhammer...(K2-K1)+(T2-T1)+C=priority...oh boy theres some old magic right there!

 

However, my reminiscing falls off topic. Pardon.

 

Current hotness on discussion around my club is Juggerlord leading bloodcrushers through walls and slamming full force into you because they can move through walls. Naysayers also lament the lack of advance and charge...but...10" movement with re-rollable charge means you have a VERY reasonable 17" threat range. In the Zerker warband you generate a zone of 9" no-go with that auto 8" blood surge. Go ahead, shoot them...I'll even let you get first crack at bat...but that's 20 zerkers (maybe a few less after you shot them) you now have giving you the works in YOUR fight phase.

Though one meme floating is a 3 bloodthirster list with angron. Not anything competitive but just funny to put 4 angry boys on the board.

 

I mean, also to point out that Juggerlords give a 3" engagement range which if for some reason your opponent goofs and lets 20 zerkers get in, that range actually lets you get all 20 in to fight against even 5 man squads, even on barely made charges. And to be clear, in a zerker warband that is going to 100 Str6 attacks which could have some combination of Dev wounds, sustained, lethals or maybe even better pile-in, fight on death.

 

Will the codex be hot top dog, no. I don't think so but it looks fun and got its fair share of power that will make it something you can't dismiss.

I really really wish there were zerkers on Jugs. or newer deamon models... because this is cool.

People have to remember as well - which I think gets lost - GW tries to balance the army to be 50%. I don't think WE are too far off from that. I guess we'll see.

[01RTB01]

9 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

It absolutely did not LMAO

"Distraction Carnifex" is the term used to designate something that looks like a threat but in reality it isn't, hence just being a distraction. 

Yet again, every post is confrontational. Negative. Trolling. 

 

What bits from the new codexes do you appreciate?...

[HeadlessCross]

16 hours ago, 01RTB01 said:

Yet again, every post is confrontational. Negative. Trolling. 

 

What bits from the new codexes do you appreciate?...

SPEAK ONLY POSITIVE AND CONSOOM

 

I've stated many times the positives from various codices. That doesn't negate the negatives though, and to pretend there's not a lot wrong with this World Eaters codex is putting your head in the sand, especially with how well written the Death Guard codex is looking. 

[Mogger351]

15 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

SPEAK ONLY POSITIVE AND CONSOOM

 

I've stated many times the positives from various codices. That doesn't negate the negatives though, and to pretend there's not a lot wrong with this World Eaters codex is putting your head in the sand, especially with how well written the Death Guard codex is looking. 

Most of your posts have been about emperors children

[Dr. Clock]

Trying to build lists from new points and it does seem a bit thin... Meaningless considering the likelihood of new points on release, but comparing Exalted and Deathshroud is kinda concerning.

 

The whole vehicle BS and rapid fire situation is very odd. I don't hate it, and I do like the incentive to get close(r). Can't help wishing the forgefiend got something a bit different, but I'll probably still take 2 alongside a Defiler and 2 maulers especially since the longer move will help on angle shooting. Pushed out to the flank on cleanup duty seems okay for them. I liked maulers before, so I'm in love with them now lol. 

 

2005 in codex points is 1875 rn in my index list - something better come down a bit!

 

Daemon Prince

Juggerlord

2x10 Jakhals

2x10 Berzerkers

1x Rhino

2x3 Eightbound

1x2 Chaos Spawn

2 Forgefiend

2 Maulerfiends

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

1 hour ago, Dr. Clock said:

Trying to build lists from new points and it does seem a bit thin... Meaningless considering the likelihood of new points on release, but comparing Exalted and Deathshroud is kinda concerning.

 

The whole vehicle BS and rapid fire situation is very odd. I don't hate it, and I do like the incentive to get close(r). Can't help wishing the forgefiend got something a bit different, but I'll probably still take 2 alongside a Defiler and 2 maulers especially since the longer move will help on angle shooting. Pushed out to the flank on cleanup duty seems okay for them. I liked maulers before, so I'm in love with them now lol. 

 

2005 in codex points is 1875 rn in my index list - something better come down a bit!

 

Daemon Prince

Juggerlord

2x10 Jakhals

2x10 Berzerkers

1x Rhino

2x3 Eightbound

1x2 Chaos Spawn

2 Forgefiend

2 Maulerfiends

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

I like the list. I do understand what you mean it feels "thin". Part of that feeling may be related to the BS4 changes you mentioned and the unknown of how the forgefiends are going to perform. I also worry how this will kill things in a vehicle heavy meta if the maulers go down fast. I am waiting to see what the chaos knight changes are because they might be the best way to supplement ranged vehicle killing.

[Cenobite Terminator]

Super stoked for the new daemonkin detachment!! Finally can play zerkers how I always want.