Can you charge out of a drop pod in 10th edition?

[Helias_Tancred]

I'm thinking yes you can. Lets say if you put ten assault intercessors in a drop pod, it comes down, and yes you deploy them around it within 3" and yes you can still charge.

 

 

[Karhedron]

I think that you cannot. The reason is that a unit cannot declare a charge if it disembarked from a transport after it moved. The rules state that a unit arriving from Reserves counts as having moved. 

[tychobi]

Yup. It's a 9 on the dice as you can only deploy them outside of 9 inches of the foe. Deep strike is best on short range shooters. Infernus in a pod do work in my experience 

[Karhedron]

23 minutes ago, tychobi said:

Yup. It's a 9 on the dice as you can only deploy them outside of 9 inches of the foe.

 

Sorry but that is not correct. Troops cannot charge on the turn they disembark from a Drop Pod.

 

 

 

The key point is that the Drop Pod has entered from Reserves. This means that the unit inside are disembarking from a Transport after it has moved so cannot declare a charge.

[Tawnis]

2 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

Sorry but that is not correct. Troops cannot charge on the turn they disembark from a Drop Pod.

 

 

 

The key point is that the Drop Pod has entered from Reserves. This means that the unit inside are disembarking from a Transport after it has moved so cannot declare a charge.

RAW, I can see why someone would interpret it that way, however there are two things that make it more of a grey area for Drop Pods specifically.

First, while the unit would count as having made it's normal move, the normal move for a Drop Pod is 0", which could be interpreted as its normal move being remaining stationary. Second, if charging were not a factor of consideration, why would it stipulate that you need to deploy the disembarked units 9" away from enemy units? That's the Deep Strike charge range and is there for that purpose. 

It certainly needs an FAQ, but I could see it being interpreted either way. If you're playing casual, I'd ask your opponent and decide together. If competitive, I'd consult with the TO ahead of time. 

[Rogue]

The movement section of the rules (The Movement Phase: 1. Move units) tells us you can make a Normal move, Advance or Remain Stationary.

 

A Normal move allows you to move up to your movement value, which would include moving 0".

 

I think interpreting a Normal move as Remaining Stationary is playing very fast and loose with the rules, given that Remain Stationary is a specific thing (with capitals), and not just an absence of movement.

[Karhedron]

31 minutes ago, Tawnis said:

RAW, I can see why someone would interpret it that way, however there are two things that make it more of a grey area for Drop Pods specifically.

 

RAW is exactly how the rules are intended to be used. There is no ambiguity about this.

• Units entering play from Reserves count as having made a Normal Move. This includes the Drop Pod
• Units that Disembark from a Transport after it has moved cannot declare a charge.

This is exactly how the rules are written and how they are intended to be applied.

Edited Monday at 05:02 PM by Karhedron

[Emperor Ming]

1 hour ago, Karhedron said:

 

RAW is exactly how the rules are intended to be used. There is no ambiguity about this.

• Units entering play from Reserves count as having made a Normal Move. This includes the Drop Pod
• Units that Disembark from a Transport after it has moved cannot declare a charge.

This is exactly how the rules are written and how they are intended to be applied.

As Karhedron says, that's correct, no charging 

[Helias_Tancred]

Hmmmm .... interesting. Thank you everyone that has partook in this thread.

[Tawnis]

21 hours ago, Rogue said:

The movement section of the rules (The Movement Phase: 1. Move units) tells us you can make a Normal move, Advance or Remain Stationary.

 

A Normal move allows you to move up to your movement value, which would include moving 0".

 

I think interpreting a Normal move as Remaining Stationary is playing very fast and loose with the rules, given that Remain Stationary is a specific thing (with capitals), and not just an absence of movement.

A fair point, however, I was considering it from this angle: "After you have finished moving that unit, select another unit from your army to move, and so on, until you have done so with all of your units. Once you have moved all of your units, progress to the Reinforcements step of your Movement phase."

If you real this RAW, it means that you MUST select all of your units to move, even if you have them remain stationary, which would mean you would never get the heavy buff because everything MUST move, even if it's 0" because RAW it says you have to do it until you have selected every unit in your army. Since it obviously isn't intended to contradict things like the heavy rule, a unit then can be selected to move, remain stationary and be functionally treated as though it didn't move. 

Further to this "Units that disembark from a TRANSPORT model that either Remained Stationary this phase or has not yet made a Normal, Advance or Fall Back move"
Since a Drop Pod has a movement of 0" it could be interpreted as being incapable of making an normal move and when chosen to move, must select to remain stationary. However, it's hard to say if that was the intent or not. It seems that way to me in order to specifically carve out the Drop Pod for this as that's its whole schtick, but I understand why you see what you do here as well. 

Edited Tuesday at 02:08 PM by Tawnis

[Brother Captain Vakarian]

30 minutes ago, Tawnis said:

If you real this RAW, it means that you MUST select all of your units to move, even if you have them remain stationary, which would mean you would never get the heavy buff because everything MUST move, even if it's 0" because RAW it says you have to do it until you have selected every unit in your army. Since it obviously isn't intended to contradict things like the heavy rule, a unit then can be selected to move, remain stationary and be functionally treated as though it didn't move.

This isn’t correct, the Heavy rule explicitly works for a unit that chose to Remain Stationary. 
 

The rules in 10th are a little wordy, and they did require some cleanup after initial release, but they are pretty tight now, you just have to read every related rule in context. 
 

There is no RAW way around the fact that a drop pod, when placed, counts as having made a Normal Move, so a disembarking unit can’t charge, regardless of the move characteristic being 0”. 

[Karhedron]

1 hour ago, Tawnis said:

Since a Drop Pod has a movement of 0" it could be interpreted as being incapable of making an normal move and when chosen to move, must select to remain stationary. However, it's hard to say if that was the intent or not. It seems that way to me in order to specifically carve out the Drop Pod for this as that's its whole schtick, but I understand why you see what you do here as well. 

 

I am sorry but you are looking for ambiguity that does not exist. A Drop Pod has a Move of 0" once deployed but that does not change the fact that on the turn it is deployed, it counts as having made a Normal Move. In fact the reason GW used capitalised terms like "Normal Move" is exactly so that they define unambiguously what happens in unusual cases such as this. Yes the Pod cannot move but still counts as having made a "Normal Move" in order to define how it interacts with further rules.

 

At the end of the day, the Drop Pod has existed with these rules for nearly 2 years now and I have not heard of anyone trying to justify charging out of one on the turn it arrives. This implies that both the intention and wording of the rule seems to be clear enough that GW feel no need to specifically FAQ it.

[Tawnis]

1 hour ago, Brother Captain Vakarian said:

This isn’t correct, the Heavy rule explicitly works for a unit that chose to Remain Stationary. 
 

The rules in 10th are a little wordy, and they did require some cleanup after initial release, but they are pretty tight now, you just have to read every related rule in context. 
 

There is no RAW way around the fact that a drop pod, when placed, counts as having made a Normal Move, so a disembarking unit can’t charge, regardless of the move characteristic being 0”. 

Good call, I should have double checked the specific wording on Heavy before using it as an example. 

[Tawnis]

1 hour ago, Karhedron said:

 

I am sorry but you are looking for ambiguity that does not exist. A Drop Pod has a Move of 0" once deployed but that does not change the fact that on the turn it is deployed, it counts as having made a Normal Move. In fact the reason GW used capitalised terms like "Normal Move" is exactly so that they define unambiguously what happens in unusual cases such as this. Yes the Pod cannot move but still counts as having made a "Normal Move" in order to define how it interacts with further rules.

 

At the end of the day, the Drop Pod has existed with these rules for nearly 2 years now and I have not heard of anyone trying to justify charging out of one on the turn it arrives. This implies that both the intention and wording of the rule seems to be clear enough that GW feel no need to specifically FAQ it.

Yeah, I guess you're right. I've always seen it played that way (thought I've never seen one used in a competitive event) so I guess I thought there must be a reason it was so and went about to find it. 

 

It's funny that I've been the opposite though. The Drop Pod has been around for nearly 2 years and every time I've seen someone use it with a melee unit, they've tried to charge out of it and no one has said anything. Guess I've got a lot of people to talk to.