Fulgrim - The Perfect Son

[Tolmeus]

To my knowledge the book was digitally released last weekend and some fraters all already reading it in the moment. Might as well open a threat for it, right?

[darkhorse0607]

31 minutes ago, Tolmeus said:

Might as well open a threat for it, right?

 

I mean if you're not going to threaten a gigantic warp snake human hybrid I don't know who you would threaten

[Nagashsnee]

Just now, darkhorse0607 said:

 

I mean if you're not going to threaten a gigantic warp snake human hybrid I don't know who you would threaten

Thats why it must be now! When the timing is perfect!

[Ubiquitous1984]

My copy arrived this morning, first BL book I've bought in a while ... but I'm desperately lacking motivation to read it.  Will give it a go if fraters on here give it positive feedback.

[TheVoidDragon]

Not read the book but have seen about the 1 part that everyone seems to be focusing on as some big hint of upcoming stuff. I think taking it as specific foreshadowing is looking too far into it and taking the books as doing something that they don't do, really.

[Sothalor]

Of course that's what people are talking about.

 

Because reading a novel has absolutely nothing to do with things like prose, wordsmithing, characters, plotting, pacing, themes, or drama.

 

:cuss: that nonsense. No, it's all about "BuT wH@t AbOuT teH n3xT M3T@pL0T H1nT?!?!?!"

 

 

[TheVoidDragon]

1 hour ago, Sothalor said:

Of course that's what people are talking about.

 

Because reading a novel has absolutely nothing to do with things like prose, wordsmithing, characters, plotting, pacing, themes, or drama.

 

that nonsense. No, it's all about "BuT wH@t AbOuT teH n3xT M3T@pL0T H1nT?!?!?!"

 

 

I've even seen elsewhere, calling it a "must read" book that you should get through immediately, simply because of that specific part many think is "foreshadowing". Not because it's a good book itself, they say it's just alright...

Taking it as some hint really comes across to me as:

- over-estimating the importance of what's included in novels. They don't foreshadow things in black library novels. I even asked here for examples a few days ago to check I hadn't forgot about a time it happened.

- Ignoring that the authors are generally free to make up things for the purposes of their stories, they don't have to mean anything more.

- Missing that this particular thing, is not some completely out-there occurrence for the lore it's based around.

 

And just that:

Spoiler

For some reason thinking a vision seen by a Black Templar character is meant to be a literal and accurate thing that'll occur, where rather than it being some vague metaphor just to give across an idea and theming and message to them, that because the vision happens to show Dorn it means Dorn is literally coming back

 

 

Edited April 28 by TheVoidDragon

[Rob P]

People see what they want. There is a thread about lost primarchs in the Astartes sub-forum where people are convinced there are crumbs dropped to a future reveal when it's been said for years (since HH series started) that it's basically a tease for fans. Some utterly convinced that Imperial Fists took some of the lost primarch legionnaries based on a couple of sentences in a short story that don't say that. Can't blame people for wanting something exciting though.

 

The most surprising thing about this novel is BL's once in a year ability to actually align a relevant novel with a miniature release!

[wecanhaveallthree]

Ashes of Prospero tried that, but nobody read it so nobody knows what it bluntly foreshadowed (and how said foreshadowing didn't come to pass at all). 

[TheVoidDragon]

19 hours ago, Rob P said:

People see what they want. There is a thread about lost primarchs in the Astartes sub-forum where people are convinced there are crumbs dropped to a future reveal when it's been said for years (since HH series started) that it's basically a tease for fans. Some utterly convinced that Imperial Fists took some of the lost primarch legionnaries based on a couple of sentences in a short story that don't say that. Can't blame people for wanting something exciting though.

 

The most surprising thing about this novel is BL's once in a year ability to actually align a relevant novel with a miniature release!

 

I get being excited and all that, but when it's adamantly latching onto an idea that only seems that way because it involves ignoring all the relevant factors, it's slightly absurd.
 

A similar thing happened with another book a while ago, I think it was The Wolftime? A Space Wolf Librarian has a vision trying to find out some information on Russ and gets nothing, but get some vague knowledge of a few other Primarchs; Cue mentions of "It's a hint of those Primarchs coming back!!!" being repeated over and over, which was completely ignoring/missing it was just stating what the lore at the time had already told us was their current location/situation.
 

Strange how typically this sort of misinformation happens most often with anything involving Primarchs...

Edited April 30 by TheVoidDragon

[KJB]

For a book called Fulgrim, he’s not in it very much…

[Krelious]

2 hours ago, KJB said:

For a book called Fulgrim, he’s not in it very much…

Yeah I think its this lazy cop out that the writers are taking since Angron, like oh the book isnt about him its more like hes a force of nature that happens to be there. 

 

My 2 cents is that the book is good but too short and the ending is rather abrupt. Also to note if you got the collectors edition in the foreword the author said she was going through a rough patch in her life and this book was kinda like her therapy for that so she admits the book is depressing as a result. 

 

I would say she did a great job thematically especially in wrapping up the ending how the main character felt and his progression throughout the story albeit kinda rushed. I dont think anyone else previously went into the idea of what this pursuit of perfection would be like or what its like to be under Fulgrim. I liked the idea that Fulgrim is in essence acting as a god in this story and pretending to be omniscient and everywhere and kind of echoing what the followers of the Emperor would want the Emperor to be like but with Chaos.

 

Ultimately I think the biggest problem this book has is like the same as the Lucious book in that it should have been 100 pages longer and its quite frustating with BL books as very often you get novels that are good but too short or mediocre-bad that go on for far too long 

[darkhorse0607]

1 hour ago, Krelious said:

Yeah I think its this lazy cop out that the writers are taking since Angron, like oh the book isnt about him its more like hes a force of nature that happens to be there. 

 

 

I mean that was a problem in the Primarch series novels as well. They all featured the primarchs, but a chunk of them weren't actually about the primarchs (Lion, Sangiunius which he was barely in, arguably Guilliman etc), they were essentially Space Marine battle series novels. The most popular ones folks talk about were the ones that were actually about the primarch in the title (Lorgar, Curze, Perturabo, etc)

 

 

[skylerboodie]

I was pleased to see that the limited edition version is actually a shiny magenta cover, rather than the standard red the image advertised makes it appear to be. Much more in keeping with Fulgrim / Emperor's Children.

[Krelious]

8 hours ago, skylerboodie said:

I was pleased to see that the limited edition version is actually a shiny magenta cover, rather than the standard red the image advertised makes it appear to be. Much more in keeping with Fulgrim / Emperor's Children.

idk to me it still looks red, its just way better in person than the internet images and it feels spectacular to a degree I dont even know how to describe the texture other than its like if someone took cloth and tried to approximate snake skin with it. Also the gold highlights look really nice in low sunlight. 

[1ncarnadine]

I'm like 2/3rds of the way through this one and I'll probably finish it tonight, but for what it's worth:

 

Regarding Berengar's vision at the start of the novel:

Right off the bat, he can't really tell if he's seeing Dorn speaking to him or Sigismund, and he sort of settles on it being Dorn in his hallucination, but it's not clear. I think that's enough to handily move past any "Dorn is coming back" stuff. This was the crazed vision of a zealot and should be taken as such.

 

Fulgrim is significantly more present in this story than Angron in The Red Angel and has a marked and constant effect on the Emperor's Children, even if he's not constantly front and center. The Black Templars are shown as so extreme that they're actively pushing the civilians and PDF members into the hands of the cult supporting the invading EC. They also are definitely not a majority of the book... So right there, I think that cuts past most of the knee-jerk reactions I've seen (oof, the reddit whine-fests).

 

That said, the story itself is fine so far. The dialogue of the characters feels pitch perfect for who and what they are, but the plot itself is pretty standard. There's some great grimdark Slaanesh stuff that I've enjoyed. I'm listening to the audio and there's a bit of post-production that's neat to listen to, modulating Fulgrim's voice and adding a vox effect when someone's on comms. I'll come back around with a few more thoughts and maybe an arbitrary score when I've finished it. I don't think this one will stand alongside Josh Reynolds's Fabius books or his Fulgrim novel, or Wraight's EC from Path of Heaven, but it's solid enough of a read and very distant from actively offensive in any way (again, with the caveat "so far").

[DarkChaplain]

Just googled for a photo of the special edition and was very confused because it looked so clearly.... not red at all on the thumbnail. And then I opened the link and realized it was still wrapped in their semi-translucent paper wrapping thingy, and that means I can't tell jack all about the actual book's coloring. All I can say is that it'd probably look rad in purple.

[LemartesTheLost]

4 hours ago, DarkChaplain said:

Just googled for a photo of the special edition and was very confused because it looked so clearly.... not red at all on the thumbnail. And then I opened the link and realized it was still wrapped in their semi-translucent paper wrapping thingy, and that means I can't tell jack all about the actual book's coloring. All I can say is that it'd probably look rad in purple.

 

The magenta color IS way nicer and the texture is almost satin like. Very Slaaneshi, very EC.

[Helias_Tancred]

Finished it. 6/10. 

 

My biggest complaint was the Emperor's Children still felt like one-dimensional bad guys. Fulgrim was also meh in how he was depicted. Overall there was a lot of potential depth left on the table. The female PDF captain was the most well done and interesting. The Black Templar Emperor's Champion was a bit better done than the EC characters but not by too much. 

 

Not bad. Worth reading but definitely not great or very good. 

 

 

Edited May 4 by Helias_Tancred

[TheVoidDragon]

7 hours ago, Helias_Tancred said:

Finished it. 6/10. 

 

My biggest complaint was the Emperor's Children still felt like one-dimensional bad guys. Fulgrim was also meh in how he was depicted. Overall there was a lot of potential depth left on the table. The female PDF captain was the most well done and interesting. The Black Templar Emperor's Champion was a bit better done than the EC characters but not by too much. 

 

Not bad. Worth reading but definitely not great or very good. 

 

 

 

I've not seen anyone else say it's a particullarly great book either, only claiming it's a "must read" that you have to read "immediately" because of the part they think is "foreshadowing".

Edited May 4 by TheVoidDragon

[skylerboodie]

On 5/1/2025 at 9:20 PM, DarkChaplain said:

Just googled for a photo of the special edition and was very confused because it looked so clearly.... not red at all on the thumbnail. And then I opened the link and realized it was still wrapped in their semi-translucent paper wrapping thingy, and that means I can't tell jack all about the actual book's coloring. All I can say is that it'd probably look rad in purple.

Hard to capture the magenta shade in a photo but can kind of see it here. 

[Helias_Tancred]

3 hours ago, TheVoidDragon said:

 

I've not seen anyone else say it's a particullarly great book either, only claiming it's a "must read" that you have to read "immediately" because of the part they think is "foreshadowing".

 

Yeah that cracks me up, I've heard others say the same thing. It's typical GW foreplay with their customers concerning primarchs and their possible return, etc. I mean in all honesty in theory aren't they ALL coming back in one way or another? To me it's a non-issue, the only concern I have, is at 53 years old, will it happen in my lifetime? LMAO.

 

[TheVoidDragon]

45 minutes ago, Helias_Tancred said:

 

Yeah that cracks me up, I've heard others say the same thing. It's typical GW foreplay with their customers concerning primarchs and their possible return, etc. I mean in all honesty in theory aren't they ALL coming back in one way or another? To me it's a non-issue, the only concern I have, is at 53 years old, will it happen in my lifetime? LMAO.

 

Regardless of if they are or aren't coming back, it's just strange because it's seeing those scenes and then making the assumption that foreshadowing is something Black Library novels do. When, as far as i'm aware (and besides whatever Dan Abnett is supposedly doing), nothing originally shown by a novel has ever been "foreshadowing" anything. Things included in the novels are not hints and clues of upcoming 40k additions, they're whatever the author comes up with for the purposes of their story.

Not only that but it's ignoring the lore behind it as well to instead make out it's some extra-ordinary event that would never happen unless it was part of some big behind-the-scenes plan, which is just absurd.

 

So we have an average novel being touted as a "must read" because of what to me seems like a misunderstanding of the whole thing, with so many latching onto the idea that it means something.

Edited May 4 by TheVoidDragon

[Helias_Tancred]

I'd have to disagree with your inference. GW has shown in the past to meddle in terms of details of Black Library 40k novels. They do maintain a sort of overwatch on some of the Black Library material written. I'm sure they reviewed her manuscript to make sure it jived with what they've just released in terms of the game range. That street goes both ways too, including what they want in a novel/short story/audio drama to jive with something they have that will be coming out as a model, etc. 

 

 

Edited May 4 by Helias_Tancred

[TheVoidDragon]

1 hour ago, Helias_Tancred said:

I'd have to disagree with your inference. GW has shown in the past to meddle in terms of details of Black Library 40k novels. They do maintain a sort of overwatch on some of the Black Library material written. I'm sure they reviewed her manuscript to make sure it jived with what they've just released in terms of the game range. That street goes both ways too, including what they want in a novel/short story/audio drama to jive with something they have that will be coming out as a model, etc. 

 

 

 

They do have some oversight and authors can't just do anything they want in a novel, but generally what ends up included in a book will be what the author came up with / something simply for the purposes of that story and that's all it really is. They might have be given some direction to make sure what they've written adheres to how GW wants something to be portrayed or whatever, but that's not really the same sort of thing as "This is in the novel because it's a hint of a big plan, it's foreshadowing!" that is being talked about with this book, that's not what they do; Novel inclusions aren't an indication of anything more happening beyond it, they're there for that specific books story.

I asked a few days ago here about if there were any times when something in a novel actually was "foreshadowing" an addition that later happened, and there weren't really any examples of it.

Edited May 4 by TheVoidDragon