Discussion and thoughts on my incoming Eldar

[TheArtilleryman]

So, looks like I am making an Eldar army! This will almost exclusively comprise of wraith units and grav units (jetbikes, grav tanks etc).

 

Couple of questions for those of you that use them regularly.
 

1. What loadouts are most effective? The standard wraithcannon looks like an absolute beast of a gun and seems like a no-brainer compared to the d-scythe. Close combat wraiths looks cool as heck (and rule of cool does tend to be king) but are they worth taking over the wraithcannon loadout? That seems like such a powerful choice at S14 over even the S7 ghost axes. Also, without a transport are they just going to be a prime target for immediate death?

 

2. Wave Serpents as a dedicated transport. Now it would be logical for a Spiritseer to ride in the transport, but as he is a lone operative and not a leader, the transport rules of “one unit only” would seem to preclude him from doing so. Have I got this right? I can’t see anything in the datasheets that overrides this.

Edited yesterday at 01:25 PM by TheArtilleryman

[Karhedron]

Wraithcannon is very good and will take care of a big chunk of your anti-tank/monster needs. However it is worth taking a squad of Scytheguard for a couple of reasons. Firstly they hit automatically so don't really care about being near a psyker. This means you can deploy them out on a flank and they will function quite happily on their own. Spiritseers are very good but are a tax of sorts so you need to find ways to spread your units out. Secondly, Scytheguard are great targets for the Overwatch strat and can shred infantry from grots up to Plague Marines and Custodians.

 

A squad of Axe/Shield Wraithblades are pretty tanky and worth considering as a unit that can brawl over the midfield Objective T6 3W 2+/4++ (and healing from a Spirit Seer) is tough enough to put up a good fight against any unit without 3D melee weapons.

 

I think Transports can carry multiple units so the Spirit Seer can tag along inside the Wave Serpent. In fact the section on Dedicated Transports states that they must start with at least one units embarked. The "at least" bit pretty much confirms transports can carry multiple units as long as they all fit within the Transport Capacity.

 

[TheArtilleryman]

28 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

Wraithcannon is very good and will take care of a big chunk of your anti-tank/monster needs. However it is worth taking a squad of Scytheguard for a couple of reasons. Firstly they hit automatically so don't really care about being near a psyker. This means you can deploy them out on a flank and they will function quite happily on their own. Spiritseers are very good but are a tax of sorts so you need to find ways to spread your units out. Secondly, Scytheguard are great targets for the Overwatch strat and can shred infantry from grots up to Plague Marines and Custodians.

 

A squad of Axe/Shield Wraithblades are pretty tanky and worth considering as a unit that can brawl over the midfield Objective T6 3W 2+/4++ (and healing from a Spirit Seer) is tough enough to put up a good fight against any unit without 3D melee weapons.

 

I think Transports can carry multiple units so the Spirit Seer can tag along inside the Wave Serpent. In fact the section on Dedicated Transports states that they must start with at least one units embarked. The "at least" bit pretty much confirms transports can carry multiple units as long as they all fit within the Transport Capacity.

 

Argh so what you’re actually telling me is I need three squads - one squad of each loadout 

 

The transport bit is interesting… maybe I’m getting mixed up with HH - in that ruleset it is definitely one unit only, because I was trying to work out how to fill a Spartan and was annoyed that I couldn’t embark two units (which is nuts considering its massive capacity). So this could work nicely then.

[TheArtilleryman]

So this is the list I have (currently got all these models either at home or on the way). My only real decision to make is what loadout for the Wraithguard. I would like to magnetise them all so I have all the options but I am so lazy …

 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ FACTION KEYWORD: Xenos - Aeldari
+ DETACHMENT: Spirit Conclave
+ TOTAL ARMY POINTS: 1010pts
+
+ WARLORD: Char1: Farseer Skyrunner
+ ENHANCEMENT: 
+ NUMBER OF UNITS: 8
+ SECONDARY: - Bring It Down: (2x2) - Assassination: 2 Characters
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Char1: 1x Farseer Skyrunner (80 pts): Warlord, Eldritch Storm, Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Singing Spear
Char2: 1x Spiritseer (65 pts): Shuriken Pistol, Witch Staff

5x Wraithguard (170 pts): 5 with Close Combat Weapon, Wraithcannon
5x Wraithguard (170 pts): 5 with Close Combat Weapon, Wraithcannon

6x Windriders (160 pts)
• 1x Windrider with Scatter Laser: Close Combat Weapon, Scatter Laser
• 1x Windrider with Shuriken Cannon: Close Combat Weapon, Shuriken Cannon
• 4x Windrider with Twin Shuriken Catapult: 4 with Close Combat Weapon, Twin Shuriken Catapult
6x Windriders (160 pts)
• 1x Windrider with Scatter Laser: Close Combat Weapon, Scatter Laser
• 1x Windrider with Shuriken Cannon: Close Combat Weapon, Shuriken Cannon
• 4x Windrider with Twin Shuriken Catapult: 4 with Close Combat Weapon, Twin Shuriken Catapult
1x Wraithlord (140 pts): Ghostglaive, Wraithbone Fists, 2x Shuriken Catapult, 2x Bright Lance
1x Vypers (65 pts): Wraithbone hull, Bright Lance

Edited yesterday at 04:10 PM by TheArtilleryman

[Bouargh]

I am a little bit puzzled by the tooling up of your Windriders. in general I do not put scatterlaser on these. I do rather select Shroudrunners instead as they cost the same. Did you consider 1 unit of Shroudrunners instead of the second Windriders?

As a consequenc eof the former, I am therefore setting my Riders only with twin-linked catapults or Cannons. I never decided myself about proportions as I own only 1 ooP cannon. Yet I might see a benefit sometimes to get a 100% cannon unit, especially against Marines and their 2 Wounds... It might be a future investment. 

 

The Vyper looks like it is not legal: I am pretty sure you cannot have a Cannon and a BL, the standard Vyper's Cannon being replaced by the BL; it should leave you with twin linked catapult and BL. But I am talking by memory there.

 

[Karhedron]

Looks promising but I wouldn't bother with twin shuricats on the bikes. Upgrade them all to Scatterlasers or Shuricannons. The extra range and firepower makes this a no-brainer.

[TheArtilleryman]

1 hour ago, Bouargh said:

I am a little bit puzzled by the tooling up of your Windriders. in general I do not put scatterlaser on these. I do rather select Shroudrunners instead as they cost the same. Did you consider 1 unit of Shroudrunners instead of the second Windriders?

As a consequenc eof the former, I am therefore setting my Riders only with twin-linked catapults or Cannons. I never decided myself about proportions as I own only 1 ooP cannon. Yet I might see a benefit sometimes to get a 100% cannon unit, especially against Marines and their 2 Wounds... It might be a future investment. 

 

The Vyper looks like it is not legal: I am pretty sure you cannot have a Cannon and a BL, the standard Vyper's Cannon being replaced by the BL; it should leave you with twin linked catapult and BL. But I am talking by memory there.

 

I have gone for all windriders because a) I like them but also b) the abundance of cheap ones available right now due to the Combat Patrol magazine. You’re right about the vyper; not sure why it said shuriken cannon there.

 

1 hour ago, Karhedron said:

Looks promising but I wouldn't bother with twin shuricats on the bikes. Upgrade them all to Scatterlasers or Shuricannons. The extra range and firepower makes this a no-brainer.

Another thing I didn’t know you could do! It always used to be 1 in 3 could have a heavy weapon. Absolutely I will upgrade them all!
 

This is a perfect example of why removing fine points makes zero sense because there is literally no reason whatsoever to choose catapults over cannons if they are the same points with no restrictions. This now makes them an insanely good unit with 18 S6 AP -1 D2 shots with lethal hits, plus the farseer support. On an average roll that is a whole squad of dead marines.

 

I haven’t built anything - it’s all still on sprues waiting to be my next big project so I can change any loadouts I want.

Edited yesterday at 04:31 PM by TheArtilleryman

[Karhedron]

3 hours ago, TheArtilleryman said:

This now makes them an insanely good unit with 18 S6 AP -1 D2 shots with lethal hits, plus the farseer support. On an average roll that is a whole squad of dead marines.

 

A Warlock Skyrunner is also a good Leader as he gives the squad "Ignores Cover".

[TheArtilleryman]

11 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

A Warlock Skyrunner is also a good Leader as he gives the squad "Ignores Cover".

Just realised they also get to re-roll all hits against the closest target… and the farseer skyrunner lets me turn one dice result into a 6… they have gone for me from a cool but meh on tabletop unit to absolutely beefy in a single day …

Edited yesterday at 08:23 PM by TheArtilleryman

[Trokair]

In terms of Wraithguard and Wraithblades all the loadouts have their use, so in part it will probably come down to what roll do you need them fill that your other units can’t.

 

Karhedron’s summary covers it quite well. Though a few additional thoughts. D-sythes out of a transport are great for clearing infantry of an objective, and make it hard to retake by enemy infantry due to how good they are with overwatch.

 

Swordguard are great Marine choopers, though shuriken cannon jetbikes are also very good in that regard, so probably not as useful in your list as the other Warith loadouts.  

[TheArtilleryman]

8 hours ago, Trokair said:

In terms of Wraithguard and Wraithblades all the loadouts have their use, so in part it will probably come down to what roll do you need them fill that your other units can’t.

 

Karhedron’s summary covers it quite well. Though a few additional thoughts. D-sythes out of a transport are great for clearing infantry of an objective, and make it hard to retake by enemy infantry due to how good they are with overwatch.

 

Swordguard are great Marine choopers, though shuriken cannon jetbikes are also very good in that regard, so probably not as useful in your list as the other Warith loadouts.  

Swordguard do look cool but I was just imagining them getting gunned down before they got to swing a blade due to not having the invulnerable save.

 

A couple of wave serpents are on my wishlist a bit further down the line and I agree with that thought but unfortunately I don’t have access to them yet.

[Karhedron]

15 hours ago, TheArtilleryman said:

Just realised they also get to re-roll all hits against the closest target… and the farseer skyrunner lets me turn one dice result into a 6… they have gone for me from a cool but meh on tabletop unit to absolutely beefy in a single day …

 

Yup, and since Shuricannons have Lethal Hits, changing a miss into a 6 will also auto-wound. Then you can cast Misfortune on an enemy unit which gives them -1 to Wound. Combine that with the Harassment Fire rule from your Vyper for -1 to Hit and you can seriously nerf an enemy unit, particularly if they are relying on a big units to do a lot of heavy lifting.

[Dr. Clock]

1 hour ago, Karhedron said:

Combine that with the Harassment Fire rule from your Vyper for -1 to Hit and you can seriously nerf an enemy unit, particularly if they are relying on a big units to do a lot of heavy lifting.

While I do love these vibes, I like the warlock on bike better, and for this army I'd even hazard that a second Spiritseer may be a better buy so that you can send the WGuard out separately and rez/guidance on both units (or indeed keep guidance and heals on WLord back home while WGuard expand).

 

Shroudrunners are my first stop to buff basic windriders more than a character, though. I don't understand how they are the somehow same points, but I digress...

 

I guess my instinct instead of 2x6 windriders would be 3x3 windriders and 1x3 Shroudrunners. From there instead of a Vyper I'd also be considering a warwalker for the AP-1 on anything you want to focus fire.

 

At 1005pts:

 

Spiritseer

Wguard

WGuard

WLord

Shroudrunners

3x3 Windriders (cannons are good, but scatters are also good and their range advantage is not to be underplayed when these are going to be corner camping alot. 2x3 cannons and 1x3 scatters maybe?)

Skyrunner warlock (not really required with shroudrunners, but this is the cheapest upgrade)

War Walker (as long as you avoid the starcannon probably no really bad loadout)

 

This all kinda boils down to the idea that the enemy can't hit back if they're dead, so killing more is usually better than debuffing units to escape reprisal. 

 

Just some thoughts - it's a cool list and idea in general; you can't go too far wrong with equal measures speed and chonk lol. 

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor. 

[TheArtilleryman]

Interesting thoughts @Dr. Clock and thanks!

 

The shroud runners are an interesting choice but I don’t have any :) the jetbikes are what I have access to because they are so cheap to get hold of right now due to Combat Patrol magazine. I have 2 squads of 6 plus 2 more spare bikes that I may attempt to convert into a warlock or autarch.
 

Looking at the profiles, I can see they have different advantages. Windriders have a better armour save and excellent special rule with the rerolls to hit, plus access to the shuriken cannons. The Shroudrunners have the extra attack from the longrifles and stealth. Both have an invun - shroud runners have a better invun save but it’s only against ranged whereas the wind rider save is useable against melee too. I don’t feel like one is clearly better than the other.

 

The war walker is neither a wraith, nor does it fly, so that disqualifies it from my list. The Spiritseer is the only living Eldar that is allowed to walk :) I’ll take more of them when I expand the army.

 

Just learned that I have a Fire Prism on the way as a belated birthday present, so that throws another (very pleasant) spanner in the works! 

Edited 5 hours ago by TheArtilleryman