GW Approved Souping: Theorycrafting a replacement for Assigned Agents and Soup Detachments

[Indy Techwisp]

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but I don't think it fits anywhere else.

 

There's currently a few different ways for some units to be used in other Armies.

Assigned Agents, Daemonic Summoning, Cult of the Dark Gods, the straight reprinting of 5 or 6 Daemons in the Cult Marine factions and the few "Soup Detachments" we have from Grotmas and at least one Codex.

 

These methods are usually seen as either too restrictive, too open-ended, too expensive or potentially harmful for the Army a souped unit comes from (Looking at Rubrics in CSM specifically here...)

 

If GW want to bring back Souping (which they seem to judging by the above methods being available), a method they could use is the "Regiments of Renown" system from Age of Sigmar.
While this would still be restrictive (since you'd be souping specific set groups of units), it would solve some of the issues surrounding unrestrained souping or repint souping.
In AoS, RoRs are usually given unique abilities for their added group which make them stand apart from simply porting a unit directly from one army to another and could open the door to more cross-faction souping via each RoR having their own list of factions they could join.
An example of the above could be a Cultist based RoR being able to join Genestealer Cults (since in-lore the two groups have occasionally worked together to overthrow a planet), or a Kroot RoR being usable by the Imperial Guard (since Kroot are known for their Mercenary activities).

 

This method could also be used to bring back specific "Subfactions" that have otherwise been lost to the genericisation of 10th's Detachments, or to allow a tabletop presence for those things in lore that people frequently want represented but are too small or unique for a full Detachment or Army to be dedicated to them.

[Dr. Clock]

Yeah - it could work well if done correctly, but I'd not want RoRs to be the only way to bring allies together - I think I prefer what we have now, even though it's still a bit awkward.

 

Honestly my suggestion if you want to get more serious about 'combining armies' in thematic/narrative ways is just to find some likeminded people and figure out how you can houserule something you like more, even if it gets more complex. As long as both sides have the same number of CP, objectives, detachments and army rules, it should still be pretty balanced if you both have access to 2 codexes in a game... The biggest issue with running two lists per game is just that it'll double the strats and army rules you need to know.

 

All that's to say that the soup we have is mostly sufficient to my needs, and my opponent it usually flexible when I want to try something a bit weird out (like letting me treat a Corvus as a dedicated transport to get around the restrictive Agents rules)

 

The big feelsbad for souping usually just involve losing faction rules and strats on the allies, so I like that they are increasingly including ways to at least given them some of that access where most appropriate for like Chaos and Ynnari. I also appreciate that they've kept those things separate and distinct from 'mainstream detachments' so that people don't feel like they're losing out by not taking allies, and that'd be my main fear for RoR type things - they just add more and more risk of accidentally skewing the meta where people bandwagon to anything cracked and ignore the others. Then you also get the issue of that kind of prescriptive army building tending to create some weird assemblies of models that you can't actually change.

 

All in all it'd be interesting to explore, but I'll be surprised to see anything much like RoRs in 10th.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[ThePenitentOne]

It's actually really easy. Just play two detachments together, like we used to in 8th and 9th.

 

I know, a lot of people were like "But... But in order to win I have to memorize every strat for every army, and more than six strats will melt my brain!"

 

But most people playing the game for fun always knew that you didn't have to (and weren't supposed to) memorize every strat, and your opponent wasn't going to do that either, so we were fine.

 

So bring 1k EC detachment and a 1k Daemons of Slaanesh detachment. Yes, you'll have twelve strats, but only Daemons will use the Daemon ones and only EC will use the EC ones. Problem solved.

[HeadlessCross]

There was really not a lot of problems with allies to be honest. Everyone points at the fact Riptides could be added to any army during 7th and completely glossed over the fact that Riptides were too good in any army to begin with. The same people also refused to acknowledge how good Infantry squads were by themselves and was WHY the Loyal 32 worked so well. 

 

Now I'm punished to just wanting to use the Grey Knight Strike Squad datasheet outside Grey Knights LOL

[TheMawr]

2 hours ago, ThePenitentOne said:

It's actually really easy. Just play two detachments together, like we used to in 8th and 9th.

 

I know, a lot of people were like "But... But in order to win I have to memorize every strat for every army, and more than six strats will melt my brain!"

 

But most people playing the game for fun always knew that you didn't have to (and weren't supposed to) memorize every strat, and your opponent wasn't going to do that either, so we were fine.

 

So bring 1k EC detachment and a 1k Daemons of Slaanesh detachment. Yes, you'll have twelve strats, but only Daemons will use the Daemon ones and only EC will use the EC ones. Problem solved.

 

Yeah agreed.

And for things where it is common enough to warrant any form of standardized rules, I think its preferable to use the standardized rules available. Like Daemons in the cult codexes and the Ynnari one... the execution isnt always great, especially the hard limit for one detachment, but the idea is a step in the right direction, others that I think could follow this approach to allies :

 

- Berzerkers, Rubricae, Plague marines and Noise marines in CSM forces ( this one I think is coming though, as per the recent store updates in that regard.)
- Brood brothers in Genestealer cults ( though making less sense probably, I feel raveners and Trygon/Mawloc would add some thema-balanced flavor to the very humanoid GSC, and they are often burrowing creatures away from the hivemind. )
- Harlequins & Ynnari in the Drukhari codex. ( including Power from Pain rules, wich fits both as well.) could even call the Harlequins Midnight Troupe, Midnight Shadowseer etc. if it has to.
- I half feel one or two of the Votann units could be "Demiurg X" units in the Tau codex.
- Inquisitor + Retinue natively in the Sisters of Battle and Grey Knights codex at least. ( kind of treating them like imperial daemon princes )
- TO example of Kroot mercenary in the imperial agents codex ( yes, they commonly use singular kroot, but a whole detachment, in universe terms speaking, works better as a whole detachment in game terms speaking through house ruling like the above. ) though controversially, not unlike daemons, I would personally spread the entire imperial agents out and put them natively in their most thematic codexes ( multiple times where needed, like we see with chaos codexes.) this also another element for Deathwatch as a standalone. Though, as said, its a personal, not too significant (yet controversial) opinion, and might also be problematic in some cases. ( rogue traders for example.)

 

Knights will probably remain relying on ally rules.

 

If giving them proper datasheets to match, you can achieve anything a RoR could, and if done right ( history says that is unlikely), better and cleaner.

[Cpt_Reaper]

I'd do it one of two ways:

1. You may take a single allied detachment, which may not be more than 25% of your entire army and must share a faction keyword (Imperium, Chaos, Aeldari, Tyranids). The allied detachment loses the Battleline keyword for any units it brings in.
2. Do away with soup/allies all together. It clearly doesn't work and any way GW does it will be the wrong way.

[N1SB]

On 5/13/2025 at 6:18 AM, Indy Techwisp said:

An example of the above could be a Cultist based RoR being able to join Genestealer Cults (since in-lore the two groups have occasionally worked together to overthrow a planet), or a Kroot RoR being usable by the Imperial Guard (since Kroot are known for their Mercenary activities).

 

 

I agree with what everyone said, but I've got nothing really to add except art support, from John Blanche himself.

Edited May 13 by N1SB

[Garrac]

If GW continues the current path, I'd at least like an "Agents of Chaos" codex where:

 

-All the damned and cultist-like units get detached from the chaos codexes to be filed in here. Goremongers, poxwalkers, Jakhals, tzaangors, cultists, tguards... you know the drill

-The codex works like Agents of the Imperium, with all the Chaos armies being able to take units from here (this way you solve CSM fans issues with fielding non-CSM units, and perhaps you make a detachment for CSM ala Word Bearers that heavily relies on synergies with Agents)

-There's a limit to the point of Agents a Chaos army can take

-There are just 2 new kits on release: a named character and traitor ogryns

-Reboxed kits: the current chaos sprue for vehicles (now sold separately), a regular tguard kit without the enforcer and the kill team sprue, same wih fellgors, rogue psykers from BSF are back.

-Tguard can double up to 20 men

-7 detachments: 4 for the main gods, 1 for a Chaos Cult, 1 for a tguard army, and 1 for a beastmen army

-The tguard army detachment can be able to take Squadron units from Astra

-Only cultists are battleline. Rest gets battleline treatment only when it's the right detachment

-Amazing damage strats and rules to compensate for being board control armies

 

It may look like a long list, but I dont think any of this is very hard to achieve, tbh. The fandex almost writes itself very easily. I have the most doubts on poxwalkers out of all the joined units because Death Guard fans would hate this, but you do need a nurgle cultist unit here, they cant miss this chance. We are missing cultists of Slaanesh tho, but Im gonna bet theres a Kill Team on the way before the year even ends.

Edited May 14 by Garrac

[sairence]

I don't mind the current allies rules, they work just fine for me.

 

The only gripe I have is that Agents of the Imperium have no actual army rule besides "Congrats, you can run these guys on their own!"

[Dr. Clock]

5 hours ago, sairence said:

Agents of the Imperium have no actual army rule

That and the detachment benefits are so narrowly applicable to only very few units in each game. You don't need a good army rule if the detachments are broadly relevant and good.

 

You don't even need great detachments if the datasheets are good enough, and luckily there are a couple that make Imperial Agents work out okay (primarily Deathwatch, Breachers and Subductors).

 

It's certainly somewhat ironic that allying in a pair of Warglaives is basically mandatory for a reasonable Agents list, and again ironic that the best way to do Agents is as allies to a Deathwatch SM list.

 

All that aside, I do think the 'multiple factions' detachments are a good way of writing armies together where it makes sense, and this is buoyed by way that they've standardised detachments. They often seem to end up just shy of where I'd prefer them to be - 500 pts is not enough Skitarri for the Knights list IMO - but in those cases I'm often okay to just add in some 'true allies' as well to make it even more integrated...

 

Basically I'll throw 10 Subductors and 10 DW into almost any Imperial list and be well happy about it, so that's great. I think for Chaos it's less of an issue because they're already more diverse from the jump. Just having little chaffe squads running around with marines is more 'allying' than Loyalists can easily get, and the 'Cult' lists they've started doing to emphasize mortals are pretty cool, if niche.

 

Re: the GSC allies idea, there's definitely no good reason one couldn't make a cool converted Chaos version of them. Some counts-as for the vehicles and whatnot would work fine, and there's even the opportunity to bring some Traitor Guard in that way. Indeed, I'd basically encourage anyone wanting Chaos Guard to actually build them as GSC...

 

Frig - I guess I gotta do Khorne Guard counts-as GSC now don't I?

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[HeadlessCross]

2 hours ago, Dr. Clock said:

That and the detachment benefits are so narrowly applicable to only very few units in each game.

And sometimes those few units already HAVE the rule that supposedly comes from the detachment. Look at the Hereticus one for example. Ignores Cover as an army wide rule is actually great. The problem is that all the units already do or have a way to do it.