GW accidentally forced NGNG to get a lawyer to prove GW doesn't own BattleTech

[twopounder]

In what appears to be the norm since 2020, weird things are afoot. Apparently GW just initiated a mass wave of lawsuits against Etsy and other online stores to remove unlicensed GW products from them (to the tune of several hundred). However, the method they did that (and their usual tactic of shooting first then verifying the target later with lawsuits) resulted in suing No Guts, No Galaxy over the Warhammer, a mech that was part of BattleTech 4 years before Warhammer 40k existed. It might be funny, but unfortunately Sean had to pay a lot of money for a lawyer to get the case dismissed and it directly impacted him and his family. Hopefully GW can do something to make it right, because this looks extremely bad.

 

 

Edited May 16 by twopounder

[Captain Idaho]

Interesting. I just did a search on Etsy and seen plenty of sellers still selling "Space Knight" or "Legions MK3 shoulder pads" - I don't doubt GW tried to strike sellers out, but how successful was their method?

 

Also, how do we know they acted?

 

***edit***

Oh wait, the video Idaho. Watch the video. 

 

Fair.***

 

Very interesting for me.

Edited May 16 by Captain Idaho

[Marshal Rohr]

How is Battletech so unsuccessful that its run by one guy and doesn’t have lawyers?

[TheVoidDragon]

Sounds like a very odd situation. Them trying to stop some of the things that are outright copying actual Warhammer products/designs is understandable as there's a lot that just uses GW stuff, but simply for using the word "Warhammer" is just absurd. Gives a quite bad impression if they aren't even doing a quite simple checking of things properly beforehand.

I don't see what part of this was them "proving GW doesn't own battletech" though? Maybe I just missed it but he doesn't seem to say that's what happened
 

Edited May 16 by TheVoidDragon

[Scribe]

11 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

How is Battletech so unsuccessful that its run by one guy and doesn’t have lawyers?

 

It is BEWILDERING that Battletech still exists with how poorly it must be run. I have asked myself what is wrong with them for decades literally decades.

[twopounder]

18 minutes ago, TheVoidDragon said:

Sounds like a very odd situation. Them trying to stop some of the things that are outright copying actual Warhammer products/designs is understandable as there's a lot that just uses GW stuff, but simply for using the word "Warhammer" is just absurd. Gives a quite bad impression if they aren't even doing a quite simple checking of things properly beforehand.

I don't see what part of this was them "proving GW doesn't own battletech" though? Maybe I just missed it but he doesn't seem to say that's what happened
 

 

Its the way they sued. Effectively he had to get a lawyer to submit evidence to a judge that the Warhammer mech is part of BattleTech, and that this is not owned by Games Workshop. Keep in mind, the judge doesn't know any of this, just that a bunch of entities are being sued for IP infringement and the window to counter slammed closed very fast. This wasn't similar to Chapter House, but more like a reverse class action lawsuit.

 

The GW lawyers SHOULD have checked the list before submission.

Edited May 16 by twopounder

[Marshal Rohr]

5 minutes ago, Scribe said:

 

It is BEWILDERING that Battletech still exists with how poorly it must be run. I have asked myself what is wrong with them for decades literally decades.

Apparently this isn’t GW attacking battletech it’s GW attacking this guy in a larger lawsuit to shut down the Wuhan campus of Forge World. He had a magnet that said Warhammer. And because he’s a broke dude talking to the internet for a living the Florida lawyer fleeced him. 

[twopounder]

7 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

Apparently this isn’t GW attacking battletech it’s GW attacking this guy in a larger lawsuit to shut down the Wuhan campus of Forge World. He had a magnet that said Warhammer. And because he’s a broke dude talking to the internet for a living the Florida lawyer fleeced him. 

 

They literally sent a letter claiming that a BattleMech from 1984 infringed on the GW IP.

 

Also, title never said GW is attacking BattleTech. They made NGNG get a lawyer and submit evidence to court that BattleTech is not GW IP and therefore cannot legally part of the IP litigation. Pretty straight forward.

[NovemberIX]

Talk about frustrating, it is sad that his only real recourse was to counter-sue and hope he could get fees covered. It may not be GW direct,  but using scuzzy lawyers who use scuzzy tactics to protect their IP leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I've always thought it's important to know a couple of lawyers cause you never know what'll happen, this just proves the point.

[Captain Idaho]

Ah, he mentions in the video that GW got sellers on Etsy shut down a year to 2 years ago.

 

So it looks to be something they've failed at.

 

I frankly can see them being more litigious during the Amazon series shooting and frankly I think they (GW) needs to be super careful not to stir the hornet's nest.

 

Status quo carries on and they got their income and new series great. But keep trying to sue people and then all of a sudden big players, bigger carnivorous fish in the sea, turn their attention towards GW splashing about trying to eat a small bit of prey.

 

I can't find it but I used to have a direct forum quote screenshot from Michael Moorcock on why he didn't sue GW. I'll look for it but not sure if I can succeed. 

 

 

Edited May 16 by Captain Idaho

[phandaal]

1 hour ago, twopounder said:

However, the method they did that (and their usual tactic of shooting first then verifying the target later with lawsuits) resulted in suing No Guts, No Galaxy over the Warhammer, a mech that was part of BattleTech 4 years before Warhammer 40k existed.

 

Claiming to own IP that was created before Warhammer even existed? How unusual. GW is very respectful of every IP from whom they maybe might have possibly lifted a tiny inconsequential bit of inspiration.

 

Now excuse me while I assemble some Space Marines (Heinlein/Herbert) to fight against the forces of Chaos (Moorcock) while serving the God-Emperor (Herbert) on his Golden Throne (Herbert again) in his long battle against the four great Ruinous Powers (Moorcock again).

 

They might even be reinforced by the Arbites (Wagner), and buttressed by the noble Houses of the Imperial Knights (uh... yeah that one is just straight up BattleTech).

 

Edit: bonus round!

 

After assembling these 100% original units, it could be fun to kick back and read some lore about the Old Ones and their War in Heaven which culminated in the Enslaver Plague (Niven).

Edited May 16 by phandaal

[Emperor Ming]

How much of the IP is ours to claim my lord?

 

All of it!

 

[Magos Takatus]

It's sad to see Games Workshop throwing their weight around like this. I've stopped buying Nintendo products because of their abysmal patent trolling, and now GW is at it again. Mind you, this is the company that tried to sue an author for using the phrase "space marine" in the title of their book?

[twopounder]

57 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

Ah, he mentions in the video that GW got sellers on Etsy shut down a year to 2 years ago.

 

So it looks to be something they've failed at.

 

I frankly can see them being more litigious during the Amazon series shooting and frankly I think they (GW) needs to be super careful not to stir the hornet's nest.

 

Status quo carries on and they got their income and new series great. But keep trying to sue people and then all of a sudden big players, bigger carnivorous fish in the sea, turn their attention towards GW splashing about trying to eat a small bit of prey.

 

I can't find it but I used to have a direct forum quote screenshot from Michael Moorcock on why he didn't sue GW. I'll look for it but not sure if I can succeed. 

 

 

I wasn't aware they'd moved into shooting. You'd think they'd want to do this around the time the trailer and/or video drops to prevent quick cash grabs.

[Marshal Rohr]

1 hour ago, twopounder said:

 

They literally sent a letter claiming that a BattleMech from 1984 infringed on the GW IP.

 

Also, title never said GW is attacking BattleTech. They made NGNG get a lawyer and submit evidence to court that BattleTech is not GW IP and therefore cannot legally part of the IP litigation. Pretty straight forward.

Oh, did they LITERALLY send a letter? He said his old partner got an email in the video you posted and the product in question was a magnet

[twopounder]

43 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

Oh, did they LITERALLY send a letter? He said his old partner got an email in the video you posted and the product in question was a magnet

No, they did not literally send a letter. What changes? Nothing at all. Because GW was not require to mail a letter to sue people in the state of Florida.

 

To expand on this, its called a SAD Scheme Lawsuit and its effectively a form of lawfare that's only legal in a few US states (Florida Include)

Here is a quick AI Blurb:

 

Quote

 

Florida Sad Scheme Lawsuit

A "SAD scheme" lawsuit involves intellectual property rightsowners filing a lawsuit against multiple online merchants using a sealed complaint that does not publicly identify the defendants.6 This scheme often targets online merchants outside the U.S., particularly those in China.6 In Florida, such lawsuits are common and can be particularly harmful to defendants who are unaware of the proceedings.68

In Florida, lawsuits using the SAD scheme typically involve trademark enforcement and are often filed in the Southern District of Florida.6 For example, in a case involving 1,099 defendants, Betty’s Best, Inc. sued numerous sellers for allegedly infringing on their intellectual property.8 The defendants in such cases are often blindsided by the lawsuit, as they may only learn of it after their marketplace accounts are frozen.68

If you are facing a SAD scheme lawsuit in Florida, it is crucial to seek legal advice, even if you cannot afford a lawyer. Without representation, you may not be able to provide information to the court, which could lead to a default judgment against you.16 If you refuse to cooperate, the lawsuit can potentially be moved to your country, and the consequences can be severe, including asset freezes and large settlement demands.16

Legal scholars and experts have raised concerns about the due process and fairness of SAD scheme lawsuits, highlighting issues such as insufficient pre-filing investigation, joinder, and ex parte proceedings.68 Courts have been criticized for granting temporary restraining orders without hearing the defendants' side of the story.68

• Betty’s Best v. Schedule A Defendants: This case involved 1,099 defendants and highlighted the potential for large-scale asset freezes and due process issues.8

• Luke Combs v. Schedule A Defendants: In this case, a fan who sold $380 worth of merchandise was hit with a $250,000 judgment, illustrating the potential for severe consequences for defendants.6

It is important to note that these lawsuits are often designed to pressure defendants into quick settlements, and the system is under scrutiny for its fairness and legality.

 

So please tone it down and be a little less offended on GW's behalf. They are not the victim here. 

Edited May 17 by twopounder

[Blindhamster]

6 hours ago, twopounder said:

So please tone it down and be a little less offended on GW's behalf. They are not the victim here. 

Yes and no.

 

like it or not, all the people making direct copies of GW stuff absolutely are the offenders and ultimately GW is the victim. Regardless of personal beliefs etc. 

 

they should have actually reviewed the list and made judgement calls based on that. This guy clearly is a bigger victim, but I’m sure many of the others, technically GW were well within their rights to take the action. 
 

(personally, I love models, regardless of the maker, and I even have a few 3d prints, but I’m not going to say the people selling them have the right to do so)

[Captain Idaho]

We're all on the same side guys. We all hate Tau.

 

***

 

Regarding shooting the Amazon series... I don't believe they have but I was foretelling things to come kinda thing.

[Redcomet]

10 hours ago, Marshal Rohr said:

How is Battletech so unsuccessful that its run by one guy and doesn’t have lawyers?

It isn’t. Battletech is owned by Catalyst Games. 

[Matcap86]

4 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

Yes and no.

 

like it or not, all the people making direct copies of GW stuff absolutely are the offenders and ultimately GW is the victim. Regardless of personal beliefs etc. 

 

they should have actually reviewed the list and made judgement calls based on that. This guy clearly is a bigger victim, but I’m sure many of the others, technically GW were well within their rights to take the action. 
 

(personally, I love models, regardless of the maker, and I even have a few 3d prints, but I’m not going to say the people selling them have the right to do so)

 

I also believe a lot of the people hit with this were using trademarked terms to promote their own stuff or were doing AI art shennanigans. It's unfortunate Battletech got caught in the crossfire and beter reviews should be done going forward. 
 

[Gorgoff]

That's what legal cost insurance are for. Funny story otherwise 

[Marshal Rohr]

4 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

Yes and no.

 

like it or not, all the people making direct copies of GW stuff absolutely are the offenders and ultimately GW is the victim. Regardless of personal beliefs etc. 

 

they should have actually reviewed the list and made judgement calls based on that. This guy clearly is a bigger victim, but I’m sure many of the others, technically GW were well within their rights to take the action. 
 

(personally, I love models, regardless of the maker, and I even have a few 3d prints, but I’m not going to say the people selling them have the right to do so)

Knowing Florida, I’m sure the law requires at least 10% of the lawsuit to be directed at unaffiliated and innocent parties and this guy was sadly another victim on the long list of “people negatively impacted by Florida”

 

 

(I am allowed to say this, because I am from Georgia)

[TheVoidDragon]

28 minutes ago, Matcap86 said:

 

I also believe a lot of the people hit with this were using trademarked terms to promote their own stuff or were doing AI art shennanigans. It's unfortunate Battletech got caught in the crossfire and beter reviews should be done going forward. 
 

 

Seen a few posted about recently that tried to make out that GW have been basically just trying to stop anything regardless and claim they were doing nothing wrong, only for it to then be revealed what they were actually selling and it was something very clearly just using GWs IP outright. Like just sticking on symbols and icons and names and then even describing it as Warhammer.

 

[Marshal Rohr]

4 minutes ago, TheVoidDragon said:

 

Seen a few posted about recently that tried to make out that GW have been basically just trying to stop anything regardless and claim they were doing nothing wrong, only for it to then be revealed what they were actually selling and it was something very clearly just using GWs IP outright. Like just sticking on symbols and icons and names and then even describing it as Warhammer.

 

After the Chapterhouse troglodytes basically ruined the setting and we were subjected to years and years of GW overcorrection across all their IPs I don’t think anyone reasonable would say GW should not take down the scanned model 3D print file shops, but I also don’t think anyone reasonable thinks GW should be removing “The Corps of Death’s Honor” pseudo-Krieg knock offs you see on every etsy shop. 

Edited May 17 by Marshal Rohr

[Evil Eye]

7 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

After the GW troglodytes basically ruined the setting and we were subjected to years and years of GW overcorrection across all their IPs

Fixed that for you. Chapterhouse may have been foolish calling their products by GW names, but GW absolutely didn't need to go as nuclear as they did. An assertive but polite message saying "Hey, please rename your products not to use GW trademarked terminology, thanks" would have been enough.

 

Now I'll admit I'm biased- my opinion on current IP law is that it's a warped, perverse mess of a system and that people have a moral obligation to ignore and undermine it at every available opportunity, and also GW has burned so much of my good will that frankly I will laugh at every bit of misfortune that comes their way. But acting like GW is some innocent, blameless little victim and Chapterhouse was literally [insert dictator of choice here] and solely responsible for GW's ridiculous policy is absurd.