10th Ed New Codex Discussion

[Ahzek451]

Figured since the codex has been leaked and there's already a few youtube reviews on the book, a lot of the info is out in the ether and its time to have open discussion, reviews, tactics, etc. 

I'll share my overall thoughts so far, and I'll admit, most of my views come from just reviewing the book and not having practiced everything on the table yet. 
I think the book is good, not amazing, not horrible, its good. Subjective as it is, this is categorizing the rules not only in terms of power level, but fun factor, changes, ease of use and challenge, etc. Having said that, I would like to start with a quick tier list of detachments from best to worst(not including the grotmas one) IMHO:

1. Warpmeld pact
2. Warpforged Cabal
3. Rubricae Phalanx
4. Grand Coven
5. Changehost of Deceit

For now, I think the top 3 are pretty good and can easily swap around. I want to go over the Changehost first. Because this one bothers the heck out of me and I would love to be wrong and someone can point out something I have missed. Here we go....

Your typical new daemon ally detachment. But.....I think GW did us dirty on this one.  I genuinely think that when the codex was made, one of the higher ups came down and said..."you have 1 day to add Tzeentch daemons in a detachment...go." I do jest a bit but....I am perplexed. Dragging over daemons and changing pretty much nothing except OC values and a couple rules....this is not a great recipe for success. 

 

Detachment rules:
Daemonic illusions is an Aura that gives nearby visable T.son psyker units a 4++ against ranged attacks. Sounds good at first. But then look at who can enjoy this. Pretty much rubric marines and tzaangor(or disc tzaangor) with an attached shaman. Not great. Most units already have ways or enjoy a better 4++. This has very little reach. 

Mortal sorcery  is the second part of the rule. Our daemons can cast cabal powers if T.son units are nearby. Who can do this? Only Kairos and a LoC. Can the daemons benefit from cabal abilities? no. What is this for? ....adding in 1 or 2  more psykers to cast cabal powers for T.sons units only. Or throw a doombolt out. Very underwhelming. 

Enhancements - a lot of these also depends on pts.  

Nethershriek mind-eater- T.sons or Loc. force a battleshock test on a unit at 12", if failed, 3 mortal wounds. Just ok. 
Diabolic Savant- T.sons infantry only. If nearby daemons, +1 to channeling the warp cast only. Keep in mind this is ONLY when you channel for that extra dice and risk to roll double. Decent in a pinch. This can stack with something like the MVB. 
Duplicitous Malediction- T.sons or LoC only. Re-deploy 3 T.son units after everyone has deployed. Not bad. I would rather have Ahriman(or both!), but...its an alternative. 
Tome of True Names- T. Sons infantry only. Once per battle, for a single phase you get a 2++. Not bad, annoying and a good way to keep a foot character alive...but it is only for a foot character. Just ok. 

Stratagems- 
Sulphurous Veil (1cp) - minus 1 to hit for shoot or fight phase for any unit for that phase. - usable when being targeted, always good to see. Can help keep your meat shield horrors alive. Or big birds. Or anything really. 
Deceptive Glamour (2cp) - start of fight phase a thousand sons unit in engagement range with enemy next to a daemon unit. The enemy must attack the daemons - sounds nice to deflect hit to the daemons but 2cp is a high cost for this. However....what if the enemy only charges the T.son unit and avoids the daemons? 
Ethereal Phatasm(1cp) - enemy that that finished move within 9" of daemon unit, daemon unit can move d6. OR 6" if WHOLLY within range of T.sons unit. - A dodge move is nice, but to be WHOLLY within can be tricky.  Will be very situational. Helps move the horror meat shield around nearby T.son unit. 
Fractal Disjuntion (1cp) - Pick a non-monster daemon unit, cannot be targeted if over 18" away. - useful for horrors in the back holding objectives? Or screamers. This seem very situational since the detachment wants you to keep daemons near T.son units that may be too close to the action. But how often would a daemon unit be in this situation? Daemon units can use this have an 18" or less ranged attack anyway. 
Chronoscorcerous Bleed (1cp) - T.son psyker unit or daemon unit, a unit charging this unit subtracts 2". - Good for halting a long charge. Not cumulative to similar rules. 
Glimmershift Portal (1CP) -  end of enemy fight phase you can have 2 non-monster daemon units or 1 monster unit not within 3" of enemy can but put in strategic reserve. Decent reposition move. 

Daemons are largely unchanged from being moved over. One of the main bonuses for having daemons is that this is one of the only ways to generate extra CP for T.sons via Kairos. And there are a few movement shenanigans for controlling the table. Horrors are pretty cheap, but that's about it. There is little synergy between the daemons and T.sons. I feel like GW is afraid to make our big birds good at shooting and lack that extra power to be effective. The OC on pink horrors is 1 and Blue are 0. Making Blue pretty much useless at objectives. I feel like the enhancements and and some of the strats are the only good parts of this detachment. The army rule has very limited function. Perhaps if you have some tzaangor units with a shaman to enjoy a 4++ against ranged attacks but other detachments do Tzaangor better. Or a 4++ better.  Same with rubrics. And as mentioned before, a lord of change or Kairos using cabal powers that can't be used on daemon units....I mean....ok? I am really not sure what GW was trying to do with this detachment. This is a contender for our worst detachment. And porting daemons over without adjusting rules/stats...you can't just plug and play like that with Tzeentch daemons. Frankly, any other detachment can do what you need a lot better. Play this if you really like daemons or want a way to get extra CP, or for fun. Why not.  

I would fix this detachment by removing the "psyker" requirement for daemonic illusions. And have Mortal sorcery allow cabal abilities to work on daemons. If we are going to share, then share. 

Please share thoughts, critique, add more about this detachment or others. There are plenty of positives about the other detachments. The new book is here(almost), let us have enjoy our new toys!

 

Edited 6 hours ago by Ahzek451

[Ulfast]

I, as most of you, don´t have the codex yet but of all the diffrent detachment, it seems the daemon one is terrbily. Which is very sad as I got both  alot of TS and Tzeentch daemon but as the rules are right now, I don´t see myself using it as it´s terribly. GW could have done better then this. Also change of oc to 1 instead of 2 on pink horros and 0oc on blue makes them worthless comparing to rubrics. There staying power and high oc where the good stuff. Now, just put 5 intercessor and you lost the objetive. 

 

Perhaps 3 LoC and Magnus in a list could be fun to try out, but it will never be a good army. I think other detachment will be more powerful and fun to play.