10th Ed New Codex Discussion

[Ahzek451]

Figured since the codex has been leaked and there's already a few youtube reviews on the book, a lot of the info is out in the ether and its time to have open discussion, reviews, tactics, etc. 

I'll share my overall thoughts so far, and I'll admit, most of my views come from just reviewing the book and not having practiced everything on the table yet. 
I think the book is good, not amazing, not horrible, its good. Subjective as it is, this is categorizing the rules not only in terms of power level, but fun factor, changes, ease of use and challenge, etc. Having said that, I would like to start with a quick tier list of detachments from best to worst(not including the grotmas one) IMHO:

1. Warpmeld pact
2. Warpforged Cabal
3. Rubricae Phalanx
4. Grand Coven
5. Changehost of Deceit

For now, I think the top 3 are pretty good and can easily swap around. I want to go over the Changehost first. Because this one bothers the heck out of me and I would love to be wrong and someone can point out something I have missed. Here we go....

Your typical new daemon ally detachment. But.....I think GW did us dirty on this one.  I genuinely think that when the codex was made, one of the higher ups came down and said..."you have 1 day to add Tzeentch daemons in a detachment...go." I do jest a bit but....I am perplexed. Dragging over daemons and changing pretty much nothing except OC values and a couple rules....this is not a great recipe for success. 

 

Detachment rules:
Daemonic illusions is an Aura that gives nearby visable T.son psyker units a 4++ against ranged attacks. Sounds good at first. But then look at who can enjoy this. Pretty much rubric marines and tzaangor(or disc tzaangor) with an attached shaman. Not great. Most units already have ways or enjoy a better 4++. This has very little reach. 

Mortal sorcery  is the second part of the rule. Our daemons can cast cabal powers if T.son units are nearby. Who can do this? Only Kairos and a LoC. Can the daemons benefit from cabal abilities? no. What is this for? ....adding in 1 or 2  more psykers to cast cabal powers for T.sons units only. Or throw a doombolt out. Very underwhelming. 

Enhancements - a lot of these also depends on pts.  

Nethershriek mind-eater- T.sons or Loc. force a battleshock test on a unit at 12", if failed, 3 mortal wounds. Just ok. 
Diabolic Savant- T.sons infantry only. If nearby daemons, +1 to channeling the warp cast only. Keep in mind this is ONLY when you channel for that extra dice and risk to roll double. Decent in a pinch. This can stack with something like the MVB. 
Duplicitous Malediction- T.sons or LoC only. Re-deploy 3 T.son units after everyone has deployed. Not bad. I would rather have Ahriman(or both!), but...its an alternative. 
Tome of True Names- T. Sons infantry only. Once per battle, for a single phase you get a 2++. Not bad, annoying and a good way to keep a foot character alive...but it is only for a foot character. Just ok. 

Stratagems- 
Sulphurous Veil (1cp) - minus 1 to hit for shoot or fight phase for any unit for that phase. - usable when being targeted, always good to see. Can help keep your meat shield horrors alive. Or big birds. Or anything really. 
Deceptive Glamour (2cp) - start of fight phase a thousand sons unit in engagement range with enemy next to a daemon unit. The enemy must attack the daemons - sounds nice to deflect hit to the daemons but 2cp is a high cost for this. However....what if the enemy only charges the T.son unit and avoids the daemons? 
Ethereal Phatasm(1cp) - enemy that that finished move within 9" of daemon unit, daemon unit can move d6. OR 6" if WHOLLY within range of T.sons unit. - A dodge move is nice, but to be WHOLLY within can be tricky.  Will be very situational. Helps move the horror meat shield around nearby T.son unit. 
Fractal Disjuntion (1cp) - Pick a non-monster daemon unit, cannot be targeted if over 18" away. - useful for horrors in the back holding objectives? Or screamers. This seem very situational since the detachment wants you to keep daemons near T.son units that may be too close to the action. But how often would a daemon unit be in this situation? Daemon units can use this have an 18" or less ranged attack anyway. 
Chronoscorcerous Bleed (1cp) - T.son psyker unit or daemon unit, a unit charging this unit subtracts 2". - Good for halting a long charge. Not cumulative to similar rules. 
Glimmershift Portal (1CP) -  end of enemy fight phase you can have 2 non-monster daemon units or 1 monster unit not within 3" of enemy can but put in strategic reserve. Decent reposition move. 

Daemons are largely unchanged from being moved over. One of the main bonuses for having daemons is that this is one of the only ways to generate extra CP for T.sons via Kairos. And there are a few movement shenanigans for controlling the table. Horrors are pretty cheap, but that's about it. There is little synergy between the daemons and T.sons. I feel like GW is afraid to make our big birds good at shooting and lack that extra power to be effective. The OC on pink horrors is 1 and Blue are 0. Making Blue pretty much useless at objectives. I feel like the enhancements and and some of the strats are the only good parts of this detachment. The army rule has very limited function. Perhaps if you have some tzaangor units with a shaman to enjoy a 4++ against ranged attacks but other detachments do Tzaangor better. Or a 4++ better.  Same with rubrics. And as mentioned before, a lord of change or Kairos using cabal powers that can't be used on daemon units....I mean....ok? I am really not sure what GW was trying to do with this detachment. This is a contender for our worst detachment. And porting daemons over without adjusting rules/stats...you can't just plug and play like that with Tzeentch daemons. Frankly, any other detachment can do what you need a lot better. Play this if you really like daemons or want a way to get extra CP, or for fun. Why not.  

I would fix this detachment by removing the "psyker" requirement for daemonic illusions. And have Mortal sorcery allow cabal abilities to work on daemons. If we are going to share, then share. 

Please share thoughts, critique, add more about this detachment or others. There are plenty of positives about the other detachments. The new book is here(almost), let us have enjoy our new toys!

 

Edited May 19 by Ahzek451

[Ulfast]

I, as most of you, don´t have the codex yet but of all the diffrent detachment, it seems the daemon one is terrbily. Which is very sad as I got both  alot of TS and Tzeentch daemon but as the rules are right now, I don´t see myself using it as it´s terribly. GW could have done better then this. Also change of oc to 1 instead of 2 on pink horros and 0oc on blue makes them worthless comparing to rubrics. There staying power and high oc where the good stuff. Now, just put 5 intercessor and you lost the objetive. 

 

Perhaps 3 LoC and Magnus in a list could be fun to try out, but it will never be a good army. I think other detachment will be more powerful and fun to play. 

[Thaelion Hexis]

My major gripes are the overall tone, like a vehicle themed detachment, and not enough focus on the datasheets of the various sorcerers.

 

Exalted sorcerers still feel like they are wielding an unreliable wet noodle, I would prefer a flat 2 damage and more reliable shot count. These are supoosed to be the apex psykers.

 

I would also have like the ability to join a sorcerer or internal master to a unit which already has a character, like some other armies out there.

 

From a practical standpoint, the army has to jump through more hoops to achieve similar results elsewhere. And then there are the weird lack of synergies. Great, I can make my bolters psychic. This only matters if I get out of a rhino or want to ping something before some predators shoot.

 

I try to not be negative but it seems the further we go from 7th edition, the less Thousand Sons they feel.

[darkseren1ty]

from my perusal of the leaked codex thus far:

 

the daemon detachment is bad. there is no synergy and no reason to ever use that detachment unless you want to spam 2 LoC, Kairos and magnus to have 4 big birds on the field, which is... well its a thing. probably not a good thing.

 

the index detachment got nerfed quite a bit. i think the biggest downside for me is not having the psychic bolter strat in the same detachment and limiting the psychic bonuses to once per turn (not a huuuuge downside, but forces you to plan ahead). Its still decent and probably semi-competitive, especially if you factor in the bonus rhinos give.

 

the mutie detachment is surprisingly good, with MVBs being the big winner. spamming tzaangors also doesnt seem like a terrible idea with their uppy downy ability now, allowing you to really mess with your opponents battle plans.

 

the vehicle detachment.. wow. big winner here IMO. all of a sudden, thousand sons predators (both flavors, but especially the anti-tank one), vindicators, forgefiends and DEFILERS (seriously, did not see that one coming) are incredible. the enhancements and strats are pretty darn awesome. rhinos can also benefit another vehicle by tagging a prime target and using the psychic vehicle strat to nail it to the floor. the downside of exploding on a 5+ can even be used against enemies.

 

and lastly, the rubric detachment. my personal favorite (even if i think the vehicle detachment is stronger). rubrics are the big winners here and id be tempted to run 3-4 bricks of 10. having them be tankier is fantastic, and combined with rhinos, even better. Termies dont benefit from the strats as much, but the +1 hit enhancement and the psychic bolter strat can lend itself to some powerful 1-2 punch combos, allowing you bonuses against 2 prime enemy targets in a turn. plus scarabs are tough as all hell. a foot DP would also work wonders here, both to provide some rapid counter melee threat, and making your infantry even harder to kill. Can you imagine trying to kill 20 scarabs at -1 to hit and wound and -1 ap if you're using small arms to chip damage them? absolute midboard control.

 

the units.. magnus took a nerf with the loss of the +1 to hit and wound with psychics, but the pts cost reduction and the ability to get bonuses to psychic abilities from strats, detachment rules and rhinos somewhat mitigate all this, meaning that magnus is still amazing, but no longer the linchpin of your army.

 

ahriman is better than index but still pretty meh. although the redeploy shenanigans can be fun.

 

the exalted sorcerer is unchanged but invaluable in making your rubrics tanky. probably best used in the rubric detachment

 

the regular sorcerer is a nice buffer unit to have and adds some more utility to your squads

 

the IM is alright. he benefits from some enhancements and strats due to the nature of his psychic attacks. personally, i think he's a one trick pony/suicide/trading unit

 

termie sorc is weird in that he tags an enemy for other units to benefit from (sadly, not his own). that being said, having 2 bricks of scarabs and 1 with him in the rubric detachment can be fun as u give him the +1 to hit enhancement and he tags another enemy for the other scarab brick to bonus from

 

DP on foot is great, overall better than index IMO

 

DP with wings... im struggling to find a use for him in most of my theoretical lists thus far. he's not bad, just not good enough to justify taking over a foot version

 

rubrics with bolters and scarabs both got big upgrades.

 

rhinos are basically markerlights making us the Chaos Tau (i feel sick thinking about that concept)

 

the new sekhatar robots are... well... im not sure. they dont seem all that good tbh. but they are relatively cheap and can infiltrate, so maybe good for actions and denying deepstrikes? like a better version of a spawn?

 

the battle tanks are all amazing in the vehicle detachment, and probably decent in the others

 

the forgefiend with plasma and hades is incredible. i know im gonna run at least 1

 

defiler overwatching on a 4+ is hilarious and an amazing counter to rapid melee armies

 

the big loser in the codex is the heldrake. like seriously. i have 3 and they are all crap, progressively getting worse each edition. i'll probably repaint them to EC since at least they have some use there.

 

overall, we are gonna play like a combo/tech piece army, with no single unit shining on their own. the pts cost reductions will go a long way to making TS competitive. Im happy with most of the changes and look forward to experiments with different magics on the tabletop

[Archaeinox]

7 games in since we got pages and [alleged] MFM updated points. I have been running Rubricae Phalanx and enjoying reasonable success against opponents that mostly swept me with a 20+ point lead using Index TS. I will say Phalanx looks better on paper than it is. I'd say Warpforged or Warpmeld is fighting for that top spot. I'd put Phalanx fighting to keep 3rd place. 

 

I find myself adding 4 Sekhetar to every list before anything else gets thrown in.

 

Still not running Magnus.

Edited May 21 by Archaeinox

[Ahzek451]

10 hours ago, Archaeinox said:

I find myself adding 4 Sekhetar to every list before anything else gets thrown in.

 

Tell us more about this bit. Based on utility or new shiny unit(I do this myself a lot)?

I kind of figured that might be the case for the Phalanx. Not amazing, kind of feels like the mid-average rounded detachment for us. Easy for an opponent to get around and nothing within it that screams overpowering. I think the -1 D strat needs to be able to work with All is dust to have a bit more bite. 

I don't dislike tzaangors as much as some, but generally speaking I would prefer to mostly run rubrics vs. Mutants. Although I can totally see myself having fun with a themed Mutant list for fun once in while. If any detachment is going to get the first nerfing it might be this one. I am more of a tank/robot/tech guy so once I get going I think I will lean heavy into vehicle detachment for most of my games. Those predators and robots are calling....

[Archaeinox]

4 hours ago, Ahzek451 said:

Tell us more about this bit. Based on utility or new shiny unit(I do this myself a lot)?

 

Well, if we lost some mortal wound output from Index going away, it's in our best interest to take advantage of things we are suddenly given which we never had before apart from the infiltrating Blue Horrors (which as you know, no one took them anyways because they didn't give Cabal Points). 

 

A base unit in our book just having Infiltrators USR is begging us to do it. It immediately lets us control the board, which was a huge problem unless we hit a matchup that happened to just let MSU 5man rubricae squads and Magnus dominate the board (few and far between, in the last few months). Also consider that most Infiltrators are not Toughness 6. Since there are 5 detachments and Phalanx is not top dog imo, we have to assume that most people are running Coven, Warpmeld or Warpforged and so won't have Risen Rubricae to infiltrate stuff alongside the robots.

 

Additionally, anything that blows the Sekhetar off the table wants to ensure that it at least takes the point. Anything that charges the Sekhetar and kills them will be on the point. Our army is still point-click-destroy on anything putting itself in the open like that. Very favorable. 

 

I haven't ran the Pyreflux meltaguns instead of the claws, because I think that gives an incentive to rush them forward. If you Infiltrate safely at the start of the game, you'll have to account that they are Vehicles and can't move through walls. Suddenly that 8" movement isn't so good, even with a potential d6" or 6". 

 

Ahriman is no longer an autoinclude, but he is for Phalanx I believe. Redeploy 3 with Sekhetar in a list and 2 rubrics (or the 1 Scarab unit) is just too good to pass up on.. 

Edited May 21 by Archaeinox

[Norman Paperman]

Question: What would be an acceptable proxy for a Predator?

 

I don't really want to buy a 20 year old kit if I don't have to. Are any of the HH tanks suitable alternatives/the same size? 

 

Intrigued by the Rubric and and vehicle detachments. Really wish I could soup in a few daemons though, I'd love to paint up a Kairos Fateweaver. 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

There is the Horus Heresy predator, which comes in the Battle and Support flavours. They are rhino sized, so if there is any size deviation from the 40K ones, I doubt its significant.

 

Otherwise, its really up to your opponents or gaming location as what they feel acceptable as proxies.  Can't really speak to 3rd party alternatives, but if you aren't playing in GW events/stores, I'm sure there are some the other frater can suggest.

Edited May 23 by Dr_Ruminahui

[Tokugawa]

4 hours ago, Norman Paperman said:

Question: What would be an acceptable proxy for a Predator?

 

I don't really want to buy a 20 year old kit if I don't have to. Are any of the HH tanks suitable alternatives/the same size? 

 

Intrigued by the Rubric and and vehicle detachments. Really wish I could soup in a few daemons though, I'd love to paint up a Kairos Fateweaver. 

Plastic 30K Predator has miles better kits quality, same size, exactly WYSIWYG options for 40K rules, and more lore accurate.

[Ahzek451]

There are also a few good 3d printed conversion sets for thr 30k vehicles that are made for this sort of things. Im a big fan and have been doing this for myself as I see converting 30k kits as extremely lore accurate. 

[Archaeinox]

There's some sort of Thousand Sons vehicle 3d print which has a tizcan pyramid on top. I put that on there as my Annihilator turret, with the lascannon sponsons. and a TSons front panel. 

[Tawnis]

I've only played a little thousand sons over the past few editions, but them being my favourite chaos army's got me starting to put together more models as my potentially main secondary army, now that I've got all the Kroot I'll ever need. I was looking into what a mass Tzaangor list would look like before the new codex dropped and had thought I'd be souping in a lot of Deamons, but that doesn't seem to be the case now. 

 

In general, while the detachment rule seems pretty meh for most units, the datasheets and strats seem pretty good overall. Putting a Tzaangor Shamen in a 20 blob with Diamond of Distortion for Stealth and the 4+ invul strat would make a pretty chunky brink of small bodies. Putting a Sorcerer or Infernal Master with Brey Lord in another 20 blob for Lethal or Sustained respectively seems pretty good as well. Then a couple 10 mans for objectives, actions, and screening. As a Kroot main, I know well that having mass scout across your primary units is hugely beneficial. 

 

Tzzangor Enlightened seem really good. I managed to pick up a bunch second hand at a decent price recently, so I'm looking forward to trying them with the new rules as well. They may not be the most durable things, but for only 80 points for 6 fast bodies that output that much damage, I'm going to pack as many into a list as I can. Both having precision means characters are going to go down left and right and S5 AP-1 D2 Lance with mortals on the charge is nothing to sneeze at on a unit that has a 10" move and can now go through buildings. Having Exalted Sorcerers lead the ranged ones seems really good making them not be able to be shot outside 18", but having the reaction move if they get within 9". Arihman getting in to lead a unit seems totally fine too. 

 

Spawn seems fine and Vortex Beast seems great. 

 

Between Scout on the Tzzangors, the Enlightened's moving through cover and the Vortex Beast's having a solid move profile, it looks like we'll be able to set up for a pretty huge turn 2 attack, or a turn 1 if we're moved into aggressively. Especially with an advance shoot and charge strat. 

 

Having a Deamon Prince or two kicking around for Stealth Aura and some additional psychic casts seems like it could be pretty good too. Can either soak fire for your Vortex Beasts and/or provide them with Stealth to make them more durable. 

 

I'm curious about the thoughts of more veteran Thousand Son's players though. Do you think that more-less full Mutant Warpmeld pact will work well? At the very least, I think it will be a lot of fun and reasonably tricky to deal with. 

Edit: 
Based on current points (which I know will change) this is how I plan to try and run it:

 

Detachment Warpmeld Pact:

Tzaangor Shamen x3: 165pts (Leading Lance Enlightened)
Deamon Prince x2: 340pts
Sorcerer Enh: Brey Lord: 90pts (Leading 20 blob of Tzaangors)

Tzaangors with Pistols and Chainswords 20x1 / 10x4: 440pts

Tzaangor Enlighteend with Greatbows x18: 240pts
Tzaangor Enlightened with Lances: x18: 240pts
Mutalith Vortex Beast x3: 480pts

Total Points: 1995

Edited May 26 by Tawnis

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

It does seem like Daemons haven't really been done well in any of the codexs. It must have been a very late decision to include them or the writers just gave up. 

 

I just don't cannot understand why Daemons are limited to one Detachment. 

[Ahzek451]

I think all the Disc riders have infantry keyword but the enlightened do not. 

[Ulfast]

14 hours ago, Tawnis said:

I've only played a little thousand sons over the past few editions, but them being my favourite chaos army's got me starting to put together more models as my potentially main secondary army, now that I've got all the Kroot I'll ever need. I was looking into what a mass Tzaangor list would look like before the new codex dropped and had thought I'd be souping in a lot of Deamons, but that doesn't seem to be the case now. 

 

In general, while the detachment rule seems pretty meh for most units, the datasheets and strats seem pretty good overall. Putting a Tzaangor Shamen in a 20 blob with Diamond of Distortion for Stealth and the 4+ invul strat would make a pretty chunky brink of small bodies. Putting a Sorcerer or Infernal Master with Brey Lord in another 20 blob for Lethal or Sustained respectively seems pretty good as well. Then a couple 10 mans for objectives, actions, and screening. As a Kroot main, I know well that having mass scout across your primary units is hugely beneficial. 

 

Tzzangor Enlightened seem really good. I managed to pick up a bunch second hand at a decent price recently, so I'm looking forward to trying them with the new rules as well. They may not be the most durable things, but for only 80 points for 6 fast bodies that output that much damage, I'm going to pack as many into a list as I can. Both having precision means characters are going to go down left and right and S5 AP-1 D2 Lance with mortals on the charge is nothing to sneeze at on a unit that has a 10" move and can now go through buildings. Having Exalted Sorcerers lead the ranged ones seems really good making them not be able to be shot outside 18", but having the reaction move if they get within 9". Arihman getting in to lead a unit seems totally fine too. 

 

Spawn seems fine and Vortex Beast seems great. 

 

Between Scout on the Tzzangors, the Enlightened's moving through cover and the Vortex Beast's having a solid move profile, it looks like we'll be able to set up for a pretty huge turn 2 attack, or a turn 1 if we're moved into aggressively. Especially with an advance shoot and charge strat. 

 

Having a Deamon Prince or two kicking around for Stealth Aura and some additional psychic casts seems like it could be pretty good too. Can either soak fire for your Vortex Beasts and/or provide them with Stealth to make them more durable. 

 

I'm curious about the thoughts of more veteran Thousand Son's players though. Do you think that more-less full Mutant Warpmeld pact will work well? At the very least, I think it will be a lot of fun and reasonably tricky to deal with. 

Edit: 
Based on current points (which I know will change) this is how I plan to try and run it:

 

Detachment Warpmeld Pact:

Tzaangor Shamen x3: 165pts (Leading Lance Enlightened)
Deamon Prince x2: 340pts
Sorcerer Enh: Brey Lord: 90pts (Leading 20 blob of Tzaangors)

Tzaangors with Pistols and Chainswords 20x1 / 10x4: 440pts

Tzaangor Enlighteend with Greatbows x18: 240pts
Tzaangor Enlightened with Lances: x18: 240pts
Mutalith Vortex Beast x3: 480pts

Total Points: 1995

I would love to run something similiar. I think it would surprise a lot of opponents and actually be good. 

[Indy Techwisp]

16 hours ago, The Praetorian of Inwit said:

It does seem like Daemons haven't really been done well in any of the codexs. It must have been a very late decision to include them or the writers just gave up. 

 

I just don't cannot understand why Daemons are limited to one Detachment. 

 

I think in the community's fervour to save Deathwatch we ended up screwing ourselves with Daemons.

 

The decision to include them seems to have come first and then was walked back to it's current state in order to retain the Daemons Index (I will once again cite the TSons Grotmas Detachment being perfect for Daemons as my evidence here).

[Tawnis]

5 hours ago, Indy Techwisp said:

The decision to include them seems to have come first and then was walked back to it's current state in order to retain the Daemons Index (I will once again cite the TSons Grotmas Detachment being perfect for Daemons as my evidence here).

Yeah, it certainly seems like it. I'm wondering if come next edition they'll make the full flip to Deamons being only in each god book, and re-work Deamons themselves to be the dark equivalent to Imperial Agents or something? 

[Ahzek451]

I certainly hope they integrate them proper next edition. Plugging in these units into an army with the only glue being the detachment they belong is.....half-arsed. 

Assuming the game doesn't get up-ended next edition, it would be nice to see daemon integrated proper and keywords used more effectively. With the army primary keyword being more aligned with TZEENTCH, with abilities and spells working accordingly and only certain things working for keywords THOUSAND SONS or DAEMONS. I wouldn't agree that everything should work for all Tzeentch units equally, to help differentiate the difference between mortals and the unborn, but there should be some synergies that do work. Being locked behind a detachment is so bizarre. 

But that is all wish stuff, How are people feeling about anti-tank this edition? I feel like dusting off some predators for once, perhaps a forge fiend. I think my lists will revolve around 2 mutaliths and a couple predators annihilators. Particularly in the vehicle detachment. 

[Tawnis]

38 minutes ago, Ahzek451 said:

But that is all wish stuff, How are people feeling about anti-tank this edition? I feel like dusting off some predators for once, perhaps a forge fiend. I think my lists will revolve around 2 mutaliths and a couple predators annihilators. Particularly in the vehicle detachment. 

Thinking the Fatecaster Greatbows with Lethal hits spam will be a pretty solid anti-tank support when needed. 

[Archaeinox]

On 5/29/2025 at 8:29 AM, Ahzek451 said:

How are people feeling about anti-tank this edition?

 

Took Phalanx to RTT yesterday. Killed a Rogal Dorn and 2 Vanquishers with boltguns and small arms essentially. Same with the WE Berserker Spam Rhino list with triple Land Raider. The Scarabs shooting and fighting on 2+ helped, as did the Lethals from their character and the 2x10 boltguns having a sorcerer in there for Lethals. 

 

I'm not saying that's the solution, just that we can punch up. +1 to hit and wound after disembarking with Infernal Fusillade helps. The Sekhetar are in my list all the time still, and the cheap Predator Annihilator is a Big Helper™ occasionally.

Edited June 2 by Archaeinox

[Malakithe]

On 6/1/2025 at 6:08 PM, Archaeinox said:

 

Took Phalanx to RTT yesterday. Killed a Rogal Dorn and 2 Vanquishers with boltguns and small arms essentially. Same with the WE Berserker Spam Rhino list with triple Land Raider. The Scarabs shooting and fighting on 2+ helped, as did the Lethals from their character and the 2x10 boltguns having a sorcerer in there for Lethals. 

 

I'm not saying that's the solution, just that we can punch up. +1 to hit and wound after disembarking with Infernal Fusillade helps. The Sekhetar are in my list all the time still, and the cheap Predator Annihilator is a Big Helper™ occasionally.

What was your list? I'm feeling overwhelmed with who to lead which units

[Ahzek451]

After really soaking in the codex for a few weeks, I have been leaning more toward using the Grand coven for the universal take all detachment. The Warpforged cabal is nice, but I find myself needing to trigger a lot of conditions to get the full affect of all the special rules and it has felt limiting. Such as needing psyker units nearby vehicles a lot, or targeting certain things(predators) to gain from all the rules. This detachment is still really good, and a lot of the strats seem to get the most out of targeting the new robots, but with the decrease in toughness on knights now.....All the strength 6 in our psychic powers don't seem as useless against armies like these.