Gaining Keywords

[ExeterOborach]

Hello all,

So I had a game recently with my Tyranids. where I attached my Neurotyrant ( Monster) to my Zoanthropes (Infantry). Once they're attached that unit has both the Infantry and Monster keywords correct?

So if they're within range of a Venomthrope's Foul Spores aura that grants the Benefit of Cover to all and Stealth to Infantry but excludes Monsters, do the Zoanthropes no longer receive Stealth due to having gained the Monster keyword from the Neurotyrant despite still maintaining the Infantry keyword?

We played it as the unit received the Benefit of Cover portion from the Foul Spores Aura but not the Stealth.  Was that correct?

Thanks. 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

The relevant rules are at page 23 of the Core Rules Updates and Commentary.  Under those:

 

1.  You are correct that the unit as a whole had the keywords of all models in that unit, including attached models.

 

2.  I'm not familiar with the Foul Spores wording, but I could see it being worded in a couple of ways.  If it is worded as "Except MONSTER" (or words to that effect), then it would not apply as the unit has the MONSTER keyword.  If it is worded in a way that simply omits MONSTER (for example, "Infantry, Beast and Mounted") then it would apply as MONSTER isn't specifically called out as an exception, and the listed keywords (in this case INFANTRY) does apply.

 

3.  Can't speak to whether the way you played it was correct, as I'm uncertain of the actual rules.  That said, to have a different result for the Grants Cover and the Stealth would require different wording for each portion of the rule.

[kabaakaba]

Rule clearly said that:

Foul Spores (Aura): While a friendly TYRANIDS unit is within 6" of this unit, each time a ranged attack targets that unit, models in that unit have the Benefit of Cover against that attack. In addition, while a friendly TYRANIDS unit (excluding MONSTERS) is within 6" of this unit, models in that unit have the Stealth ability

So your tyrant don't get stealth and if I understand this right your zoanthropes don't get stealth to because of one model in your unit(neurotyrant) don't have stealth because it's monster .

 

Rules shenanigans sometimes twist my mind a bit

Edited May 20 by kabaakaba

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Thanks for the quote.

 

And your conclusion is correct, though because the Neurotyrant causing the entire unit to have the MONSTER keyword, rather than because he individually having it (though, that distinction may just be a matter of semantics).

 

Same thing happens with the PSYKER keyword - attaching a PSYCHER (say, a librarian or sorcerer) to a normal squad will make the entire squad vulnerable to attacks with the ANTI-PSYKER ability.  Same goes for the CHARACTER keyword and unit abilities that give bonuses for attacking CHARACTER units.  Its just an artifact of the odd way that keywords transfer this edition.  This is also reflected in some datasheets having certain keywords restricted to certain models, meaning the unit loses the keywords if those models die (for example, the Traitor Commune in the CSM codex where only the mindwitch has the Psyker keyword and only the demogogue has the Character one).

 

It can operate beneficially as well.  For example, an ASTARTES unit with a non-Astartes PSYKER attached (like an inquisitor) can benefit from stratagems requiring the ASTARTES PSYKER keyword even though the Psyker only gets the 2nd necessary keyword by virtue of the squad they are attached to.

Edited May 20 by Dr_Ruminahui

[kabaakaba]

31 minutes ago, Dr_Ruminahui said:

Thanks for the quote.

 

And your conclusion is correct, though because the Neurotyrant causing the entire unit to have the MONSTER keyword, rather than because he individually having it (though, that distinction may just be a matter of semantics).

 

Same thing happens with the PSYKER keyword - attaching a PSYCHER (say, a librarian or sorcerer) to a normal squad will make the entire squad vulnerable to attacks with the ANTI-PSYKER ability.  Same goes for the CHARACTER keyword and unit abilities that give bonuses for attacking CHARACTER units.  Its just an artifact of the odd way that keywords transfer this edition.  This is also reflected in some datasheets having certain keywords restricted to certain models, meaning the unit loses the keywords if those models die (for example, the Traitor Commune in the CSM codex where only the mindwitch has the Psyker keyword and only the demogogue has the Character one).

 

It can operate beneficially as well.  For example, an ASTARTES unit with a non-Astartes PSYKER attached (like an inquisitor) can benefit from stratagems requiring the ASTARTES PSYKER keyword even though the Psyker only gets the 2nd necessary keyword by virtue of the squad they are attached to.

Could you point me where this explained in core rules? I'd rechecked and only basics of what keywords are was found

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Unfortunately, its not in the Core Rules but in the commentary - the relevant rules are at page 23. 

 

To be fair, this is something that caught me out as well until a frater pointed me to the commentary - its not how it worked in 9th ed and not how I expected it to work in 10th either.

 

Also, I don't think the bit in my post about losing keywords as models die is spelled out anywhere, but it seems (to me, anyway) to be a natural corollary of the way keywords work.

Edited May 20 by Dr_Ruminahui

[kabaakaba]

Thanks. Hate GW from bottom of my heart because of that. My shiny new codex/rulebook is a :cuss: in a weak after release because they rewrite it on comments.