More SM Box Rumours

[Wispy]

I don't think Codex Chapters need unique units. They advantage of being under that rule umbrella is you get universal access to all that stuff and a regularly updated rule set. You're not worried about if taking a librarian or apothecary is unthematic or whatever. A couple characters and an improved upgrade sprue I think is the sweet spot.

Edited Thursday at 09:20 AM by Wispy

[Orange Knight]

16 minutes ago, Wispy said:

I don't think Codex Chapters need unique units. They advantage of being under that rule umbrella is you get universal access to all that stuff and a regularly updated rule set. You're not worried about if taking a librarian or apothecary is unthematic or whatever. A couple characters and an improved upgrade sprue I think is the sweet spot.

 

But the divergent chapters all get universal access to all that stuff and are regularly updated as well, so this argument is moot.

 

Why are people so resistant to more hobbyists being supported with cool models for their collections, whilst defending chapters like the Space Wolves because well "they've always had some unique stuff"

 

Either you want chapter specific support or you don't. I can argue all the day about how the Dark Angels and Blood Angels follow the codex more closely than the Iron Hands, as a classic example.

Edited Thursday at 09:35 AM by Orange Knight

[Macidious]

35 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

 

But the divergent chapters all get universal access to all that stuff and are regularly updated as well, so this argument is moot.

 

Why are people so resistant to more hobbyists being supported with cool models for their collections, whilst defending chapters like the Space Wolves because well "they've always had some unique stuff"

 

Either you want chapter specific support or you don't. I can argue all the day about how the Dark Angels and Blood Angels follow the codex more closely than the Iron Hands, as a classic example.

Yeah I feel the same with chaos space marines , like all the non 4 god aligned legions are just black legion generic kits with red paint or blue paint , nothing special but they should be special

[Orange Knight]

21 minutes ago, Macidious said:

Yeah I feel the same with chaos space marines , like all the non 4 god aligned legions are just black legion generic kits with red paint or blue paint , nothing special but they should be special

 

Yeah, people are talking about 1st founding chapters. How about 1st founding LEGIONS lol? Do the Night Lords and Iron Warriors have no characters or units?

[Blindhamster]

17 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

 

Yeah, people are talking about 1st founding chapters. How about 1st founding LEGIONS lol? Do the Night Lords and Iron Warriors have no characters or units?

If you know, you know.

[Robbienw]

"Now get off my wall"

[Marshal Reinhard]

3 hours ago, Redcomet said:

Imagine how unbelievably bloated the SM range would become. 

There's no reversing that train now

[Alternis]

I’m of the mind GW will eventually detach the divergents from the base codex and make them stand alone armies and limit what units are shared between compliant > Divergent 

 

it would make balancing the SM range so much simpler and easier without their current problem which is they can’t balance one without affecting the other and failed time and again to reach the desired balance zone for all 

[Karhedron]

4 minutes ago, Alternis said:

I’m of the mind GW will eventually detach the divergents from the base codex and make them stand alone armies and limit what units are shared between compliant > Divergent 

 

GW did that in the past but have reverted to treating them as supplements. If they were going to keep them separate I don't think that they would have sent units like the Librarian Dreadnought and Stormfang to Legends. 

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

3 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

 I can argue all the day about how the Dark Angels and Blood Angels follow the codex more closely than the Iron Hands, as a classic example.

 

Can you, though?

 

I agree they SHOULD be and they USED to be. But GW has been pounding that square peg into the round hole of codex compliance long enough now that there's almost no divergence left to be found in the Iron Hands.

 

The chapter's "clan-companies" used to be independent and competitive. Now they still make the occasional claims of independence, but they're organized exactly like a codex-compliant chapter. Somehow, all of these "independent" clan-companies have been convinced to send some/most of their veterans to a rival (Avernii) rather than keep their most prized warriors to themselves. Somehow, four of these clan-companies are organized exactly like reserve companies and even occasionally referred to as such, while another is allowed to be dedicated purely towards reconnaissance and scout training. And yet, we're simultaneously told that they act independently. So yes, within the Iron Hands we have a clan-company (Morlaag) that actively seeks out its own battles and approaches EVERY engagement with a 100% Close Support mindset. It's STUPID, but it's a stupid change made in the name of codex compliance.

 

Likewise we have what's happened with the Iron Fathers. We used to be told that these operated in place of the Chaplains. Now the Iron Hands have (and have ALWAYS had) Iron Chaplains. And Iron Fathers are simply senior-level Techmarines.

 

The Iron Council? Might as well not even exist. Special Snowflake Stronos has been Chapter Master for centuries now.

 

And just to circle back to the topic, I don't expect the rumored Iron Hands Terminator unit/character to be anything more than a Stronos model.

[Wispy]

9 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

 

But the divergent chapters all get universal access to all that stuff and are regularly updated as well, so this argument is moot.

i waited 8 years for primaris grey hunters, what are you talking about. mama didn't raise no ultramarine. and even the latest codex rules strongly suggesting i should have waited instead of wolfing up intercessors. I just spent 2 weeks turning a 5 man squad of Intercessors and a 5 man squad of Assault Intercessors into one 10 man squad of Grey Hunters (5 needing chainswords, 9 needing carbines)

 

and say what you will, the Space Wolves have had their own Codex two years before even Codex Chaos Space Marine was a thing. Or Ultramarines for that matter. Certain Chapters are simply their own established factions and others are simply different colours you can paint your regular old Space Marines. It's cool they get supplment rules and a couple characters and a sprue to give them character ... but do they need their own troop types? Plenty of thematic stuff can be drawn from codex units, like Salamanders favoring Infernus squads. Even Dark Angels and Blood Angels still use Tactical Marines/Intercessors, only Wolves and Tempalrs have unique troop types.

Edited Thursday at 06:58 PM by Wispy
i went to edit a spelling error and started musing a stream of thought, apologies for incoherance.

[Wispy]

i will add a better way to go is perhaps giving Codex Chapters "Favoured Units." Like, you're not going to get a Greyhunter equivalent for Salamanders but being able to give a Salamander chapter keyword to Infernus squads and Thunder Hammer Terminators (conferring special rules from the detachment ) seems like it could be fun. And perhaps the upgrade kits can lean into that with some more purpose then usual, so those Favoured Units get bits that give them a more visible distinction.

Edited Thursday at 06:48 PM by Wispy

[SalamandersBro]

Vulkan Lives! When are the new Firedrake Terminators coming?

[Antarius]

15 hours ago, Wispy said:

i waited 8 years for primaris grey hunters, what are you talking about. mama didn't raise no ultramarine. and even the latest codex rules strongly suggesting i should have waited instead of wolfing up intercessors. I just spent 2 weeks turning a 5 man squad of Intercessors and a 5 man squad of Assault Intercessors into one 10 man squad of Grey Hunters (5 needing chainswords, 9 needing carbines)

 

and say what you will, the Space Wolves have had their own Codex two years before even Codex Chaos Space Marine was a thing. Or Ultramarines for that matter. Certain Chapters are simply their own established factions and others are simply different colours you can paint your regular old Space Marines. It's cool they get supplment rules and a couple characters and a sprue to give them character ... but do they need their own troop types? Plenty of thematic stuff can be drawn from codex units, like Salamanders favoring Infernus squads. Even Dark Angels and Blood Angels still use Tactical Marines/Intercessors, only Wolves and Tempalrs have unique troop types.

To add to this, not all chapters are supposed to be equally codex adherent. As much as e.g. Imperial Fists might lean into certain types of warfare, they're codex adherent in a way that e.g. Space Wolves just aren't, so it simply does not make sense for them to have codex divergent troop types in the same way. As someone who loves several marine chapters equally, I honestly don't think they all need the same level of special treatment.

[Orange Knight]

6 hours ago, Antarius said:

To add to this, not all chapters are supposed to be equally codex adherent. As much as e.g. Imperial Fists might lean into certain types of warfare, they're codex adherent in a way that e.g. Space Wolves just aren't, so it simply does not make sense for them to have codex divergent troop types in the same way. As someone who loves several marine chapters equally, I honestly don't think they all need the same level of special treatment.

 

I agree with this.

 

And that's why at bare minimum, all chapters need a unique honour guard unit.

 

Each variant can represent the way the chapters favours warfare, and in the lore the Honour Guard can select whatever wargear they want from the armoury.

 

The Sanguinary Guard are just Honour Guard that favour jump-packs.

[StrangerOrders]

12 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

 

I agree with this.

 

And that's why at bare minimum, all chapters need a unique honour guard unit.

 

Each variant can represent the way the chapters favours warfare, and in the lore the Honour Guard can select whatever wargear they want from the armoury.

 

The Sanguinary Guard are just Honour Guard that favour jump-packs.

I think most people would be happy with a custom unit per bloodline. Because despite the impulse to have cool OCs like the Mortifactors or E Spears, most successors DO default to their type. 

 

My hot take is that a custom honour unit will always make infinitely more sense than a load of characters.

 

Because call them what you will: Jarl, Khan, Marshall, whatever. A Captain is a Captain is a Captain and a CM will always be just a bigger Captain. 

 

Every captain ever has some unique 'OC do not steal' gimmick. A custom model is aesthetically cool but ultimately just a skin.

 

My two cents is that Heresy nailed that on the head. The priority was always to get at least 1 unique unit sculpted and out for each Legion, custom Praetors and Chars tended to take a sharp second in priority. Most of these units also behave in a very distinct and sometimes counter-intuitive ways from their baseline.

 

Also the small part where a character can at least theoretically die and have their own quirks. A unique unit represents a culture and tradition much better. 

 

I do mean A unit however, its been memed on but the codex isnt supposed to suck and veterans have always been allowed to do more or less whatever they want. If anything their current limitations make no sense for anyone. 

 

Wolves and BA have giga rabies and the DA and BT have the even worse mental condition of being DA and BT. Their lunacy is hard coded to have weird stuff out the rear. If anything I think they should honestly all have less access to the main codex options.

Edited 16 hours ago by StrangerOrders