Balance Dataslate - June 2025

[LSM]

36 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

Noise Marines absolutely needed a hit in some capacity. 10 points more than Lascannon Havocs and the Noise Marines hurt Knights and Land Raiders about the same on average (Pacts not included for Havocs and forgetting cover since Noise Marines ignore it) AND shred all infantry much quicker. Outside certain circumstances like Tzeentch Heavy Bolter Havocs, there's little reason to not go Noise Marines. 

 

Now it DOES suck for Emperor's Children since they have as many datasheets as I do fingers, but they shouldn't have a gutted army selection like that to begin with. 

 

I think, as you note, internal competition plays a bit of a role in that. Havocs are priced to move - there's other stuff that a CSM army can choose to take instead, which (might) do their job better. EC... Noise Marines are the only unit in their niche. 

 

(And frankly I'd say it's good if every EC army has a couple units of Noise Marines in it. They're Slaanesh's Cult Troops, after all.)

[Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla]

Oh great, now everybody and their mother can lead Death Company. I didn't know that this little pice of fluff was so detrimental to BA tabletop experience, very cool.

 

Edited Wednesday at 04:17 PM by Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla

[Nephaston]

1 hour ago, HeadlessCross said:

While Daemon Princes are good, Sorcerers aren't exactly the best, so I can definitely see it as an opportunity cost. I'd rather not have had the army rule tied to Psyker units and maybe just the overall Strats/Enhancements. 

The blurbs say "Sorcerer", but the keywords permit for masters of possession and dark communes as well. Not to mention being able to apply psyker to any character, like a lord discordant or chaos lord to leverage some of the stratagems. There will be shenanigans afoot.

 

20 minutes ago, Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla said:

Oh great, now everybody and their mother can lead Death Company. I didn't know that this little pice of fluff was so detrimental to BA tabletop experience, very cool.

To be fair this is less "leading" and more like the characters going " no! bad! put that down! spit that guardsman out right now mister!" with chaplains just being twice as good at it.

Edited Wednesday at 04:41 PM by Nephaston

[Blindhamster]

to be fair, it opens up death company captains actually having a use. And it actually makes a fair bit of sense that something like the sanguinary priests, sanguinor or mephiston or even Dante (due to his mask) could control them to an extent (really as much justification for those to be able to as chaplains)

[Scribe]

6 hours ago, Indy Techwisp said:

T'au got their entire army rule changed, I see.

 

I really cannot fathom playing this edition when you have this level of 'consistency'.

[Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla]

10 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

to be fair, it opens up death company captains actually having a use. And it actually makes a fair bit of sense that something like the sanguinary priests, sanguinor or mephiston or even Dante (due to his mask) could control them to an extent (really as much justification for those to be able to as chaplains)

 

DC Captains are self-homing missiles, they are in the grip fo the Rage afterall. However, now when I think about it,  9th ed dex introduced something about strong-willed non-Chaplains being able to control DC - I must have rightfully supressed this info. 

[01RTB01]

2 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

Noise Marines absolutely needed a hit in some capacity. 10 points more than Lascannon Havocs and the Noise Marines hurt Knights and Land Raiders about the same on average (Pacts not included for Havocs and forgetting cover since Noise Marines ignore it) AND shred all infantry much quicker. Outside certain circumstances like Tzeentch Heavy Bolter Havocs, there's little reason to not go Noise Marines. 

 

Now it DOES suck for Emperor's Children since they have as many datasheets as I do fingers, but they shouldn't have a gutted army selection like that to begin with. 

While Daemon Princes are good, Sorcerers aren't exactly the best, so I can definitely see it as an opportunity cost. I'd rather not have had the army rule tied to Psyker units and maybe just the overall Strats/Enhancements. 

 

 

Last I checked I don't get access to havocs or forgefiends, predator destructors or annihilators, Vindicators, obliterators... As such, no, noise marines didn't need touching. They're not battleline, they're the only shooting unit for EC and they're nowhere near as good as you're suggesting.

 

If they wanted to up their points for csm armies, fine. However your comparison with lascannons is odd. They're dedicated AT that noise marines aren't. Yes they can tear through marines but against infantry blobs they're not that great. 

 

If you want to go down any route, noise marines are costed the same as tankbustas. I know which do more to any unit type and it's not noise marines.

[kabaakaba]

2 hours ago, Joe said:

Defiler base size is overdue, but damn, the 40,000 documents continue to look like right stinkers next to Sigmar's.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

From which document that base size table are?

[gaurdian31]

16 minutes ago, kabaakaba said:

From which document that base size table are?

The Chapter Approved Tournament Companion. Weird to me that Defilers have to be on a base now.

[Malakithe]

New DA detachment looking pretty tasty

[Karhedron]

4 hours ago, Malakithe said:

New DA detachment looking pretty tasty

 

Yes, there are a lot of useful tools in there for a combined arms detachment.

[Emperor Ming]

So guard got nerfed last update, then again when the codex dropped, now again....

 

Ive had enough

 

Im out at this point until 11th im pretty sure

 

I approve of balance updates, but every three months is not enough time for the dust to settle on changes

[DemonGSides]

I thought the guard changes were pretty fine. Leontus goes back to being able to almost order everything, Kriegers given a slight increase to give a reason to bring Cadians.

 

Slightly confused on the LRBT increase but it sort of makes sense, that thing can be a monster coming in from reserves on t3 and just obliterating an objective.

 

Death Riders probably still need to come down a little more. 

 

I really can't understand the sentiment about points changes being enough to drive anyone out of the game.  Especially when the only really egregious IG change was Ursula, and honestly she needed an increase considering she's everywhere and has a very strong set of abilities. 

Edited Thursday at 12:59 PM by DemonGSides

[Evil Eye]

19 hours ago, gaurdian31 said:

Weird to me that Defilers have to be on a base now.

I mean, they don't have to be, I think that's just the recommended size if you want to put your Defiler on a base.

[Crimson Longinus]

Well I was in middle of building and painting an Ynnari force and what I feared happened. Ynnari has been doing pretty well, so some nerfs were warranted, but in the usual GW way they just nuked the detachment from the orbit. And unlike with other detachment nerfs, you cannot just switch to another detachment, as this is the only one in which this combination of units can be fielded at all.  Like I am not particularly competitive, and I guess they can still be fielded casually, but it would have been nice had the detachment not been sent directly at the bottom of the pile. 

 

 

Edited Thursday at 02:08 PM by Crimson Longinus

[Karhedron]

I feel your pain. The irritating thing is that Ynnari was the only Eldar detachment that was performing strongly but noy only did they nerf it, they also hiked the price of several units that worked well in it, despite the fact that they only performed well in that one Detachment. Battle Focus is not a fundamentally strong Faction ability and most of the Detachment abilities do not do enough heavy lifting to overcome that. Ynnari were the overcompensating exception.

[Scribe]

1 hour ago, Crimson Longinus said:

Well I was in middle of building and painting an Ynnari force and what I feared happened. Ynnari has been doing pretty well, so some nerfs were warranted, but in the usual GW way they just nuked the detachment from the orbit. And unlike with other detachment nerfs, you cannot just switch to another detachment, as this is the only one in which this combination of units can be fielded at all.  Like I am not particularly competitive, and I guess they can still be fielded casually, but it would have been nice had the detachment not been sent directly at the bottom of the pile. 

 

 

 

See, this is what I mean. This is not some cheap hobby, not some card game. It can take us adults months to build and paint any army if not years!

 

To have that spend invalidated is disgusting.

[phandaal]

22 hours ago, Scribe said:

 

I really cannot fathom playing this edition when you have this level of 'consistency'.

 

It's just popcorn time for me whenever these things come out nowadays. Feels good!

[DemonGSides]

13 minutes ago, Scribe said:

 

See, this is what I mean. This is not some cheap hobby, not some card game. It can take us adults months to build and paint any army if not years!

 

To have that spend invalidated is disgusting.

 

The Meta wheel keeps on turning. Buy the models cuz you think they are neat, not because they have a 70% win rate in tournament settings that you will never experience nor play at the same level as.  Ynnari players will be strong again, just a matter of time. 

 

Do the hobby for the fun of it, not to be some powerful gamer. Seems a simple fix. 

[brother_b]

I just can’t keep up with all the changes I don’t play frequently enough although I routinely hobby and engage in the hobby.

 

I want to play more, but schedule is tough.

 

Ive got three armies, but upkeep on the continuous grind and edition churn is tough. The idea of rebuilding my codex library and then having to dump them every few years is also frustrating.

 

That said, next couple weeks I’ve got some games planned so it’s time to relearn my army after the changes! I’ll see how they feel now.

some of the changes from codex to slate have been significant.

[Scribe]

1 hour ago, DemonGSides said:

 

The Meta wheel keeps on turning. Buy the models cuz you think they are neat, not because they have a 70% win rate in tournament settings that you will never experience nor play at the same level as.  Ynnari players will be strong again, just a matter of time. 

 

Do the hobby for the fun of it, not to be some powerful gamer. Seems a simple fix. 

 

Nah. This isn't it.

 

I never played meta, but if I drop a $2000 on something, it better do what I bought it to do, not have the rug pulled out because the designer cannot write a good rule set.

[Karhedron]

57 minutes ago, brother_b said:

I've got three armies, but upkeep on the continuous grind and edition churn is tough.

 

I look at it a different way. I also have 4 armies but almost no duplicate units within them. This means that as editions and errata come and go, my armies flow and change. If a unit gets nerfed particularly hard, I put them back in the case for a while and dust off a few old timers instead. The wheel of fortune keeps turning but if you paint what you enjoy, you will have a selection of units to ride the cycle without having to chase it.

Edited Thursday at 05:14 PM by Karhedron

[DemonGSides]

18 minutes ago, Scribe said:

 

Nah. This isn't it.

 

I never played meta, but if I drop a $2000 on something, it better do what I bought it to do, not have the rug pulled out because the designer cannot write a good rule set.

 

All of the ynnari models are still usable, as they were a week ago. They just fit in the army different and do slightly different things.

 

If you dropped 2k on an army all in one go, you deserve to be punked if you get upset when the meta shifts. If you accumulated it over time and it's a passion project, you probably don't worry as much about the meta changes, because you like the models and in the great turning wheel of "balance and meta", eventually you'll be on top again. 

 

Unless you're Admech. Then you suffer forever. 

[Mechanicus Tech-Support]

Hey, its not all bad. Robots get doctrina's now! a-and and...robots!

[HeadlessCross]

1 hour ago, Scribe said:

 

Nah. This isn't it.

 

I never played meta, but if I drop a $2000 on something, it better do what I bought it to do, not have the rug pulled out because the designer cannot write a good rule set.

Conversely, why should my whole army be invalidated because someone decided to play Ynarri?

 

Whether the hits were too much is a different discussion, but you're not entitled to broken rules or models because you bought them.