Lord Discordant post-balance dataslate?

[Annatar Giftbringer]

Greetings, 

I’ve always loved the look and lore of the Lord Discordant, and while I didn’t have the pleasure of using him during his prime, I did pick up the model a while ago, just to paint and have. 

 

Given that he got quite the glowup in the new Balance Dataslate however, I’ve decided to build him up now, and use him! 

 

I’m having some trouble deciding how to build him though. I realize most options are, perhaps not cosmetic, but of secondary importance. 

 

The techno-virus injector, while seemingly a reliable source of extra damage against vehicles, only has one attack and D2, whereas the melta cutter feels more reliable. However, not being a pistol it might be a bit too limited in practical usage..? 

 

Then there’s the mounted gun. The autocannon looks great imho, and with its long range it can take pot shots across the board, with high S and good damage. Auto-hitting baleflamer is great for roasting marines though… 

 

Being a mounted unit, he can’t run through buildings and ruins like infantry, right? 

 

And not being a vehicle means he can’t shoot the melta in melee at all? Meaning he’d have to run up right next to his target, spit melta, then attack?

 

Does Dark Pacts affect [Extra attacks] weapons? Doesn’t apply just to him of course, but a chance to get more virus injections plus additional limb attacks is nice. 

 

Thoughts or comments, on his weapon options, general usage, profile changes? 

 

[Tallarn Commander]

I too missed the Disco Lord golden age. But I do own an unassembled Disco Lord that I hope to paint and use next year. I’m glad he got buffs.

 

Here are some answers to your questions:

-I would vote for Techno-Virus Injectors over Magma Cutters. The short range on Magma Cutters makes them pretty darn useless on my Maulerfiends.

-I’m going to go with a Baleflamer on my Disco Lord, but neither weapon will do much damage so it doesn’t really matter

-Yes, mounted units must go around buildings these days

-Mounted units cannot shoot in melee

-Yes, Dark Pacts effect weapons so with Sustained Dark Pacts you could increase your melee attacks or any of your shooting attacks (except for your Baleflamer which auto hits so you cannot roll to see if you get criticals)
-I plan on using my Disco Lord to babysit a Defiler and a Maulerfiend as they move up the board

Edited 23 hours ago by Tallarn Commander

[Dr_Ruminahui]

[Edit: Ninja'd]

 

I'm about to field mine for the second time on Sunday - I fielded him earlier this year against necrons (as I had just painted mine), but didn't get a good feel about him as he got blown off the table in my first movement phase by a squad of destroyers on overwatch.

 

I do think the improvements are... an improvement, but still not sure if he's worth the price.  I'm still of the mind that a demon prince, who essentially costs the same, is better.

 

As for weapons, I think the baleflamer is better - its pretty much the ideal gun to overwatch with.  The autocannon is okay, but its actually worse against light vehicles than the baleflamer (both wound T 10 on 5s and they have the same AP - it has +1D but that's more than made up for the flamer have 2 to 3x more attacks which autohit) and its main advantage, its much longer range, is squandered on a model that wants to be in melee but can't shoot out of it.

 

As for the injector or the meltacutter, I think they are both of marginal utility.  The injector is hugely specific in that it is only good against vehicles, but with only 1 A and 2 damages, its really kind of an afterthought.  The meltacutter is better against a broader range of targets and does more damage, but they essentially have the same number of attacks as you can only use it in the shooting phase (so, only on your turn) while the injector is the fight phase (so, both turns) - but that's only because the cutter has the pistol key word, if it didn't it would be functionally useless.  So, IMHO it doesn't really matter which you use, as either is practically useless - though I intend to take the meltacutter, as it at least is useless against more targets.   And yes, dark pacts does work on extra attacks - its just changing the attacks profile that doesn't work for extra attacks - giving it extra keywords like sustained works fine.  [Edit: thought the melta had pistol - it doesn't, and without it, its pretty much useless.  Take the injector instead, as while its still pretty bad, its still better than the melta].

 

You are correct on the limitations of being MOUNTED - you don't gain the benefits of being infantry/beasts (moving through ruins), vehicle (tank shock, shooting in combat), or monster (shooting in combat), but on the plus side you can't be shot at in combat (except with the PISTOL rule) either.  It also means you don't benefit from the demon vehicle detachment's special rules, which is kind of dumb.

 

So, in my view, it is better, but outside of a vehicle heavy matchup, I still don't really want to take it and will only be doing so as its a new model that looks nice.  On the other hand, the chain glaive is MUCH more potent, so he has the potential to do some work if he lives to get in melee... but that's a big if, even with his improved invulnerable.  I really wish they had kept him in his previous edition's mobile warpsmith role rather than his 10th ed anti-vehicle one, but they did not.

Edited 15 hours ago by Dr_Ruminahui

[Annatar Giftbringer]

It’s too bad Melta cutters aren’t [pistol], would have meant Disco Lord could use it in melee and Maulerfiend could have used them without penalty… 

 

oh well. 
 

Hadn’t considered that flamer weapons don’t interact with Dark Pacts, guess that means cutter & bale is a bad combo. 
 

On the other hand, equipping the injector means that it, limbs and chain-glaive all benefit from a single Dark Pacts in the same phase, to utterly murder something… 

 

it’s a shame he lost his old healing ability, but at least he’s gotten better at killing stuff. S8 and [lance] means he hurts most targets on 2+ on the charge. 
 

Immensely annoying that he has zero usage in ”his” daemon engine detachment, but I feel he might see better use among my Renegade Raiders. 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

1 hour ago, Annatar Giftbringer said:

It’s too bad Melta cutters aren’t [pistol], would have meant Disco Lord could use it in melee and Maulerfiend could have used them without penalty… 

 

oh well. 

 

You are correct and I misread them - my above statements were based on the mistaken belief that the cutters were pistols - not sure how I got that idea.  With the cutters not being pistols, the injector is definitely better (still crappy, but better) so I would definitely take the injector instead.

Edited 16 hours ago by Dr_Ruminahui

[Annatar Giftbringer]

The injector does seem easier to use, if nothing else. Cutter requires careful positioning, possibly stratagem usage, for minor effect.

 

Injector on the other hand hits along with the other melee weapons, and that’s what he wants to do.
 

That just leaves the top gun. Im a fan of autocannons, but the flamer does have some merit 

[HeadlessCross]

3 hours ago, Annatar Giftbringer said:

It’s too bad Melta cutters aren’t [pistol], would have meant Disco Lord could use it in melee and Maulerfiend could have used them without penalty… 

It's still going to hit on a 3+ in melee, which is perfectly serviceable. 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Shouldn't the mauler be hitting on a 4+ with the cutters if it is in melee?  Unless it's wounded, of course.

Edited 14 hours ago by Dr_Ruminahui

[HeadlessCross]

1 hour ago, Dr_Ruminahui said:

Shouldn't the mauler be hitting on a 4+ with the cutters if it is in melee?  Unless it's wounded, of course.

I'm referring to the DiscoLord. He's BS2+, isn't he?

[Dr_Ruminahui]

  

4 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

I'm referring to the DiscoLord. He's BS2+, isn't he?

 

For the autocannon and his bolt pistol yes, but the cutter is 3+ (I guess based on the logic that its the Helstalker's, rather than his).

 

More importantly, though, is that he's Mounted, not a Vehicle or a Monster, so can't shoot while in melee except with Pistol weapons.

Edited 9 hours ago by Dr_Ruminahui

[Brother Nathan]

Much improved.... but improved enough... seems questionable.

 

Ranged is meh. All chaos autocannons just dont have enough for any roll. Not enough strength for tanks. Not enough shots for infantry. Not enough ap for elites. 

Flamer... is what normal flamers nearly need to be but is that what this guy should be doing? Imho its his best option. Average of 6 hits. So 4 wounds so 2 dead marines...  

Magna is too stort range and its strength too low for anything worth targeting. If you really want to focus on tanks itll do but un reliable...

 

Melee looks good. He should be reliably getting the charge and should kill approv 4msu but thats dull. Several wounds vs tanks is much better... is that enough to kill a rhino? I think he whiffs. 

 

His other boosts vs tanks. Mortals and rerolls. Nice to have. So he can be an anti tank bomb that unfortunately isnt reliable enough to kill a rhino. Is it... full focus on a rhino kill... is.. 

 

Rhino t9 sv3

Fully targeting it so mortals and rerolls

 

Ranged

Mortals 2wounds

Autocannon.  3 wounds average

Magna... av 3 wounds

 

Melee

Bladed limbs Av 2 wounds

Chainglave... 9 wounds(lance is big here )

Techno virus another 2 wounds

 

 

So on average fully focusing his shooting could fairly hurt a rhino but unlikely kill. But with lance on a charge he can reallly hurt and at str 8 hell at worst be wounding on a 4+. -3 ap is very important there too but with how inv saves are that will reduce him drastically. 

Also he is tough now with his own 4++ so on his already chunky defensive profile he wont be an easy remove and will take more than a couple of las to put down. 

 

But is that rnough for his cost?

For 15 points more you get vashtor... who has t10 and 4extra wounds. A worse flamer and none of the other guns.

Vashtors attacks are devistating and antitank so not many tanks can stand a round against. Vastor adds 2 str to deamon 

Veichles which is rather have over thecreroll 1s in shooting. And hazardous to enemy guns is hilarious.

So for me i think id rather use vashtor and the disco lord needs a wee drop still. But ... theres a but... enhancements. That could drastically change with the right one...

 

[Annatar Giftbringer]

Irrelevant side note, but I gotta wonder if the melta cutter was originally designed to be a flamer type weapon…? 
 

im looking at the dual cutter/injector piece, and it has the same nozzle shape as the Bale Flamer and even a small thing under it, like a pre-igniter or what they’re called