Prot does Wolves... again?

[Prot]

22 hours ago, Moonstalker said:

 

but don't sleep on Pred Annihilators with Iron Priests.  The first three options are really reliable because of their built-in rerolls, but if you look at the mathhammer behind them Predators are fairly tanky for their points.  Their damage for their points lags behind Lancers, but IIRC their output beats that of a Lancer on the turn they fire their Hunter-Killer.

 

Now just casually double their damage output when you have an Iron Priest standing behind them.  That's something only Wolves can do, and only now in the new codex, so you're not gonna see it represented in a lot of tournament lists like all the usual options.

 

I'm definitely looking at the Iron Priests. For now as I rebuild my collection I'm pretty certain I'm going to start with an Iron Priest + Landraider. It takes up points which I don't have right now, but 6 lascannons and 2 Hunterkillers is no joke! 

[Karhedron]

On 6/15/2025 at 4:07 PM, Prot said:

I'm glad to hear the new Saga is playable. It's probably one of my more uncertain concerns with the codex. I'm just not hot on the "if you do this, then that..." kind of rule.

 

Beastslayer is a fairly solid bet since Lethal Hits into big targets is always nice, even if you don't manage to complete the Saga. It also benefits both ranged and melee attacks and works on all Astartes units, not just Space Wolves ones.

 

Or failing that a lot of SW units work well in a Gladius detachment. 

 

On 6/15/2025 at 4:07 PM, Prot said:

I was noticing none of the old dreads are getting replaced... and shooting is going to be an issue. I am seeing a lot of Ballistus or almost mandatory 6 man Eradicators. 

 

Yup, definitely true although Iron Priest + Predator Annihilator seems to be the winner in the firepower stakes.

[TiguriusX]

Here is my feedback after testing a few lists out

 

I dropped all blood claws and grey hunters...minimum size of 10 makes them too expensive

 

Head takers are a must have...I usually do 1x6 and 1x3 + 3 wolves

I take Ragnar and he joins one of them based on my opponents list...Ragnar in a 1x3 still puts out 28 attacks and can shred most things

Instead of a 2nd 1x6 I take a brick of judiciar and 6xBGV because defending 1 flank with fight first is still valuable

 

I have decided all paired weapons is my preferred load out

You definitely want to hit your head hunting unit because dev wounds are extremely powerful

My best game so far was putting a 1x6 in reserve and marking my opponents 6 man TWC as their target

I came in with a rapid ingress and walked up to the TWC and killed the entire unit (used OATH + dev and wound +1)

I have also learned a neat trick where I put the headhunter token on an easy to kill unit and then set up a turn where I kill that unit with something else (I have desolation marines in my list to make this easier) and auto swap my token to the unit I just charged in melee.  

 

 

I have stopped using Wulfen and have 2x3 TWC instead

I use them on the wide open flanks and the base movement is useful....they have grenade killed a few important targets for me just by being in the area

 

 

Surprising MVP though...fenrisian wolves

 

Every list should have 3x5

They screen...they do missions...they score points and are dirt cheap

And they have been buffed to have a free REACTIVE  MOVE now...if your opponent has stuff in reserve turn 3 just launch your wolves forward and block off everything...then reactive move and spread out even more

 

And finally...I'm using Gladius

I have tested the same list with both gladius and beastslayer and gladius is too damn effective to stop using

[jpwyrm]

53 minutes ago, TiguriusX said:

And finally...I'm using Gladius

I have tested the same list with both gladius and beastslayer and gladius is too damn effective to stop using

 

Are you still using Iron Priests and Predators in this list? Or have you pivoted to a more melee focused list?

[TiguriusX]

41 minutes ago, jpwyrm said:

 

Are you still using Iron Priests and Predators in this list? Or have you pivoted to a more melee focused list?

 

 

My Gladius list

Spoiler

Gladius Task Force (2000 Points)

 

 

Epic Hero:

Bjorn the Fell-Handed (170 pts)

• Trueclaw

• Heavy Flamer

• Helfrost cannon

• Warlord

 

Ragnar Blackmane (90 pts)

• Frostfang

• Bolt Pistol

 

 

Character:

Iron Priest (60 pts)

• Helfrost pistol

• Tempest hammer and Servo-arm

 

Judiciar (85 pts)

• Executioner Relic Blade

• Absolver Bolt Pistol

• E: The Honour Vehement

 

 

Infantry:

Bladeguard Veteran Squad (160 pts)

• Bladeguard Veteran Sergeant

• Plasma Pistol

• Master-crafted Power Weapon

• 5x Bladeguard Veterans

• 5x Master-crafted Power Weapon

• 5x Heavy Bolt Pistol

 

Desolation Squad (200 pts)

• Desolation Sergeant

• Bolt Pistol

• Close Combat Weapon

• Castellan Launcher

• Vengor Launcher

• 4x Desolation Marine

• 4x Superkrak Rocket Launcher

• 4x Castellan Launcher

• 4x Bolt Pistol

• 4x Close Combat Weapon

 

Infiltrator Squad (100 pts)

• Infiltrator Comms Array

• Helix Gauntlet

• Infiltrator Sergeant

• Marksman Bolt Carbine

• Bolt Pistol

• Close Combat Weapon

• 4x Infiltrator

• 4x Marksman Bolt Carbine

• 4x Bolt Pistol

• 4x Close Combat Weapon

 

Wolf Guard Headtakers (110 pts)

• 3x Wolf Guard Headtakers w/ paired master-crafted power weapon

• 3x Paired master-crafted power weapons

• 3x Heavy Bolt Pistol

• 3x Hunting Wolves

• 3x Teeth and Claws

 

Wolf Guard Headtakers (170 pts)

• 6x Wolf Guard Headtakers w/ paired master-crafted power weapon

• 6x Paired master-crafted power weapons

• 6x Heavy Bolt Pistol

 

 

Dedicated Transport:

Impulsor (80 pts)

• Armoured Hull

• 2 Storm Bolters

• 2x Storm Bolter

• Ironhail Heavy Stubber

• Shield Dome

 

 

Mounted:

Thunderwolf Cavalry (100 pts)

• 3x Thunderwolf w/ storm shield

• 3x Wolf Guard weapon

• 3x Teeth and Claws

• 3x Storm shield

 

Thunderwolf Cavalry (100 pts)

• 3x Thunderwolf w/ storm shield

• 3x Wolf Guard weapon

• 3x Teeth and Claws

• 3x Storm shield

 

 

Beast:

Fenrisian Wolves (40 pts)

• 5x Fenrisian Wolf

• 5x Teeth and claws

 

Fenrisian Wolves (40 pts)

• 5x Fenrisian Wolf

• 5x Teeth and claws

 

Fenrisian Wolves (40 pts)

• 5x Fenrisian Wolf

• 5x Teeth and claws

 

 

Vehicle:

Gladiator Lancer (160 pts)

• Lancer Laser Destroyer

• Armoured Hull

• Two storm bolters

• 2x Storm Bolter

• Ironhail Heavy Stubber

• Icarus Rocket Pod

 

Gladiator Lancer (160 pts)

• Lancer Laser Destroyer

• Armoured Hull

• Two storm bolters

• 2x Storm Bolter

• Ironhail Heavy Stubber

• Icarus Rocket Pod

 

Predator Annihilator (135 pts)

• Predator Twin Lascannon

• Armoured Tracks

• Storm Bolter

• Hunter Killer Missile

• 2 Lascannons

• 2x Lascannon

 

My alternate tested 2 IP and 3 annihilators

 

Both work but Lancers dont need rerolls and tend to scare people...and the point difference let me put honour Vehement on the judiciar

Edited June 17 by TiguriusX

[Prot]

Tigurius. It’s great to hear you chime in but some of this is kind of disappointing. First off you think the troops are a failure at their current points. That makes Blood claws undesirable and Greyhunters terrible. This really sucks. 
 

Do the extra attacks on the Headtakers +2) really worth losing the invuln?  Against some lists that just seems really counterintuitive. I seem to get hit by -2 a lot. 
 

And the Sagas still don’t touch the Gladius/Stormlance apparently ( hearing this from a few sources). This totally blows. I went through a year of DA having terribly uncompetitive detachments. GW has to wake up on this already. It’s way past due. 
 

on the Wulfen, I’m not surprised. I realized quite early I’d probably skip this unit in favour of more TWC. I think too many units need strong character leadership to really work so unless someone ants to run 5+ characters, Wulfen are a tough choice. 
 

intersecting you have the Desolators I never did get rid of mine but I’m trying to shift to Eradicators. 
 

Great trick BTW on swapping targets. 
 

 

[TiguriusX]

2 hours ago, Prot said:

Tigurius. It’s great to hear you chime in but some of this is kind of disappointing. First off you think the troops are a failure at their current points. That makes Blood claws undesirable and Greyhunters terrible. This really sucks. 
 

Do the extra attacks on the Headtakers +2) really worth losing the invuln?  Against some lists that just seems really counterintuitive. I seem to get hit by -2 a lot. 
 

And the Sagas still don’t touch the Gladius/Stormlance apparently ( hearing this from a few sources). This totally blows. I went through a year of DA having terribly uncompetitive detachments. GW has to wake up on this already. It’s way past due. 
 

on the Wulfen, I’m not surprised. I realized quite early I’d probably skip this unit in favour of more TWC. I think too many units need strong character leadership to really work so unless someone ants to run 5+ characters, Wulfen are a tough choice. 
 

intersecting you have the Desolators I never did get rid of mine but I’m trying to shift to Eradicators. 
 

Great trick BTW on swapping targets. 
 

 

 

BC and GH dont make sense at their current points bc of the minimum squad size

 

If you could take 5 man units they would be fine...but a full 10 man isn't point efficient and doesnt provide a benefit on the table 

 

As for head takers it is 2 attacks per model

3 man get 18 total (great to clear other 5 man squads)

6 man get 36 total!  12 more than shields

 

The final point is my personal experience...the game is too deadly and my units never live anyway.   When I tested 6man with shields they under swung and still got killed off.

 

I dont make armor saves...its my curse

 

 

[DanPesci]

Quote

Do the extra attacks on the Headtakers +2) really worth losing the invuln?  Against some lists that just seems really counterintuitive. I seem to get hit by -2 a lot. 

 

Id rather go for the extra 2 attacks because then with 6 attacks and a battle leader, you're effectively 'guaranteeing' a sustained roll with each one, which then translates to getting one dev wound off average with each when going into your chosen target thing. Id just prefer to be more killy with them than more survivable, as this edition no matter how survivable i try to make a unit, my opponents usually kill them regardless.

 

Quote

BC and GH dont make sense at their current points bc of the minimum squad size

 

If you could take 5 man units they would be fine...but a full 10 man isn't point efficient and doesnt provide a benefit on the table 

 

 

Yeah it seems to be a problem of this edition, certainly from a competitive mindset, that units of 10 just arent effective. People spamming 5 man units as 'trade' options seems to be all anyone talks about and its kinda sad times TBH. The fact they removed the options for them to go in rhinos/razorbacks too for me was just another nail in their coffin. Im going to continue to run at least two units of grey hunters as its how ive played since I got into this around 5th and it just doesnt feel like space wolves without them but on paper them do seem very costly.

 

 

Quote

And the Sagas still don’t touch the Gladius/Stormlance apparently ( hearing this from a few sources). This totally blows. I went through a year of DA having terribly uncompetitive detachments. GW has to wake up on this already. It’s way past due. 

 

 

Yep they need to stop messing around with half n half rules and just remove access to the standard detachments for supplements chapters.

 

Although question to those who have played games with both....

We know that Gladius and Stormlance are a better 'competitive' choice than the saga ones. But if you only had access to the saga ones, do you think we would be underpowered or still able to win games. Ie are people just choosing gladius for the extra edge as opposed to our sagas actually being overall bad??

 

For me its a big shame as its once again going to skew data like at the start of the edition, and we'll liekly see our actual detachments get worse due to points nerds from competition builds that dont use SW detachments (not having a go at anyone on here who does this, I understand the winning mindset, I just dont like the way the game is currently setup).

Ie I have a unit of 3 converted bikers with wolves buddies I used as TWC. I only ever played CoR and yet saw the unit nerfed points wise over and over again due to competitive storm lance abuse, I can only see this happening again with the internet now going on about how our strongest builds are either gladius, or 'stormlance with 18 TWC'.

 

 

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

 

@DanPesci - I don't think 10-man marine troop squads being looked down on is a problem of this edition. I don't know if it's ever been viewed favorably from a competitive viewpoint. For what it's worth I do wonder if 10-man squads are going to be the norm in 11th. The grey hunter & blood claw kits don't really look like they're designed to be 10-man squads from a modeling perspective, and it wouldn't shock me if they move towards what you get in the box is the unit or half of it.

 

I do want to add that in my game the blood claws & grey hunters felt fine, but not having sticky objectives hurt, and I didn't want to use them for actions because of how expensive the unit was. I did use Saga of the Hunter which did benefit both.

[Karhedron]

36 minutes ago, Jorin Helm-splitter said:

I do want to add that in my game the blood claws & grey hunters felt fine, but not having sticky objectives hurt, and I didn't want to use them for actions because of how expensive the unit was.

 

Fenrisian wolves for 40 points for 5 (or Hunting Wolves at 25 points for 3) make great action monkeys. I do agree that I will probably be keeping a squad or two of Intercessors in the list for ObjSec.

[Prot]

This is kind of funny to me. (Not funny haha, but funny - strange.)

 

So I play a lot of armies. A lot of Chaos started getting the 10 man 'treatment' and then it seems to have bled into Marines. But with Chaos your getting a strong buff usually, and although 10 Berzerkers is debatable over 5, with E.C. there was a good advantage there. But all in all, these aren't game breaking in "kill power".

 

That being said a lot of the game is still action based, and you've got a real problem here with all marines having expensive-ish troops and can't do actions unless they find a monkey squad.  Not too mention with Wolves this 10 man treatment is one of the reasons Grey Hunters aren't making the most competitive cuts. 

 

Conversely 5 man intercessor squads (especially since the Boltrifle improvement) are so much better with Sticky as well as double shooting.

 

D.A. is in a similar spot (but granted they don't have the same specialized Troop units.) It makes you wonder where this is going. Maybe battleline should have 'do actions/act normal' or something to bring them back to a desirable level.)

 

 

[DanPesci]

33 minutes ago, Prot said:

Conversely 5 man intercessor squads (especially since the Boltrifle improvement) are so much better with Sticky as well as double shooting.

 

D.A. is in a similar spot (but granted they don't have the same specialized Troop units.) It makes you wonder where this is going. Maybe battleline should have 'do actions/act normal' or something to bring them back to a desirable level.)

 

 

 

 

I do wonder if marines 2.0 dex will remove the option for 5 man intercessors.

SW still having access to them feels a bit off tbh and i woudlnt have hated us losing intercessor access (same with assault intercessors and bloodclaws)

 

That or 11th sees battleline able to do actions and still shoot (as atm there is little reason for bringing battleline still - being cheap and able to do actions seems stronger than having good OC when stuff dies so easy

 

Quote

 I don't think 10-man marine troop squads being looked down on is a problem of this edition. I don't know if it's ever been viewed favorably from a competitive viewpoint. For what it's worth I do wonder if 10-man squads are going to be the norm in 11th. The grey hunter & blood claw kits don't really look like they're designed to be 10-man squads from a modeling perspective, and it wouldn't shock me if they move towards what you get in the box is the unit or half of it.

 

I do want to add that in my game the blood claws & grey hunters felt fine, but not having sticky objectives hurt, and I didn't want to use them for actions because of how expensive the unit was. I did use Saga of the Hunter which did benefit both.

 

 

I get you, MSU was always seen as stronger in most armies for as long as ive played...its just now with the way missions work you really need to have cheap action squads to actually score points (iirc this wasnt the case pre- 9th edition and them adopoting competition rulesets into matched play). Luckily we have wolves to do that for us but it certainly feels like your gonna need 1-2 squads of them to compete. I never felt bad in the past running big squads of BC and small squads of GH (it was fluffy and effective)

 

Thats nice about the GH/BC feeling ok though, im still excited to use them in game (I have 20 converted primaris scale GH already before I add the 10 new ones from the box so determined to get them on the table still haha), and gonna play a few games using SotHunter as it feels nice and fluffy. I think there will still be some use having 30 bodies at OC3 - and the character addtiions can make them interesting for me

 

[TiguriusX]

Major meta shift today with Knights point reduction 

 

3xLancer lists are about to be the new boogie man

 

Not much can kill a 4++ 

 

But we can

 

That means beastslayer just shot up in value

 

6 man Headtakers with dev wounds

Predator annihilators 

 

It's hunting time

[TiguriusX]

Since beastslayer usage will rise here is another tip I picked up

 

Buy Wolf touched enhancement 

Stick thewolf touched character with your headtakers instead of wulfen if the matchup works

 

+2 movement just made the charge easier 

 

I miss lack of advance and charge in this detachment

 

Ragnar with 1 brick of headtakers and + 2 movement in the other can help

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

22 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

Fenrisian wolves for 40 points for 5 (or Hunting Wolves at 25 points for 3) make great action monkeys. I do agree that I will probably be keeping a squad or two of Intercessors in the list for ObjSec.

 

Honestly, I just never considered them for actions. They are already useful I just have to keep that in mind.

 

20 hours ago, DanPesci said:

 

 

I do wonder if marines 2.0 dex will remove the option for 5 man intercessors.

SW still having access to them feels a bit off tbh and i woudlnt have hated us losing intercessor access (same with assault intercessors and bloodclaws)

 

That or 11th sees battleline able to do actions and still shoot (as atm there is little reason for bringing battleline still - being cheap and able to do actions seems stronger than having good OC when stuff dies so easy

 

 

 

I get you, MSU was always seen as stronger in most armies for as long as ive played...its just now with the way missions work you really need to have cheap action squads to actually score points (iirc this wasnt the case pre- 9th edition and them adopoting competition rulesets into matched play). Luckily we have wolves to do that for us but it certainly feels like your gonna need 1-2 squads of them to compete. I never felt bad in the past running big squads of BC and small squads of GH (it was fluffy and effective)

 

Thats nice about the GH/BC feeling ok though, im still excited to use them in game (I have 20 converted primaris scale GH already before I add the 10 new ones from the box so determined to get them on the table still haha), and gonna play a few games using SotHunter as it feels nice and fluffy. I think there will still be some use having 30 bodies at OC3 - and the character addtiions can make them interesting for me

 

 

I'm really curious to see what we lose access to moving forward because I could see us losing access to more units, but I could also see some units no longer being battleline for us as an option as well.

 

As far at 11th is concerned, I think battle line being able to do actions and shoot is a possibility, they can do it in in incursion games with the new set of mission cards, and that may be a test.

 

 

[Prot]

Well I guess I'm pulling out my old Predator and Lancer. I do wish speeders went down a bit as I do love the anti tank one with it's +1 to wound mechanic.  (I have used it off and on for years and it does keep getting cheaper.)

 

I'm going to avoid the Gladius. I just sold a larger UM and DA army for that reason. (I don't need a bunch of armies that play the same detachment.)

 

How big of a kick would it be to see SM codex 2.0 say that non-codex standard chapters can't use their detachments? Pure chaos? An exodus to "Ultra Wolves"? Or do people make these Saga's work?

 

BTW: I haven't really fielded my Desolation marines since the nerf to 5 men, and 200(?) points. How are they doing?

 

 

[TiguriusX]

31 minutes ago, Prot said:

 

 

BTW: I haven't really fielded my Desolation marines since the nerf to 5 men, and 200(?) points. How are they doing?

 

 

 

They have extra value for SW bc the rapid fire impulsor makes them an anti tank threat (8-10 krak missiles)...that means they always have a job regardless of opponent

 

Against certain armies Desolation marines shine (GSC / astra militarum / aeldari)

 

Others they just sit on my objective 

 

Once in a while I need their krak missiles and they step out or hop in the impulsor

[Moonstalker]

Personally, I think Rapid Fire applying to Firing Deck stuff is likely to get FAQ'd.

 

Even if it doesn't, it feels like kind of a hard sell.  Desolators are in a pretty tough spot at their current price point.  40 points per model for something that is no more durable than a 15 point Assault Intercessor.  GW really hates indirect fire this edition and anything with it has to pay through the nose.  Tacking on the Impulsor and Iron Priest is kinda doubling down on something that wasn't amazing in the first place.  With the Desolators Castellan launchers needing to be within 18" of their target to benefit from the Iron Priest's rapid fire and Firing Deck only allowing you to choose 1 ranged weapon from the selected models to shoot with (can't double-dip the castellan launchers and superkrak in the same turn), I feel like I'd rather just throw Grey Hunters at the problem.

 

For roughly the same price of the Desolators + Impulsor, you could just get two Predators for anti-tank.  With an Iron Priest involved with either, you're looking at 10 Super-krak vs 9 Lascannon shots (3 of which are S14 instead of 12; all of which have more S and AP than Super-krak along with better BS and better special rules) at 24 inches, not counting the Hunter-Killers they could throw.

 

For pure anti-tank work, I don't think the Desolators compete.  Tigurius is right that they do bring something anti-GEQ indirect for their point cost that could be handy, but their vulnerability to the clap-back (Impulsor T9 vs Pred's T10, low durability for points of Desolators) doesn't endear them to me.  Two Predators with an Iron Priest is also more difficult to degrade than Desolators in an Impulsor.  Once the Impulsor is popped the Iron Priest can't buff the Desolator fire anymore, meaning their damage output is effectively halved for AT-fire.  If one Predator gets popped, the Iron Priest just buffs the other one, meaning damage output only drops by 33%.  If there's no other vehicles nearby, then the death of the Impulsor may also mean the loss of Lone Operative for the Iron Priest, so the Iron Priest and Desolators are likely to follow the Impulsor shortly after.

[TiguriusX]

you dont use the impulsor for castellan launchers indirect fire (you would lose ignore cover buff too)

 

it is to gain extra krak missiles only

[Prot]

So this is kind of an indirect comment on the 'way of Wolves' and I'm jut thinking out loud here.

 

I've had a couple of games with my World Eaters and in the past 3-4 games I've very much been keeping my Wolves' ideas/strats in mind.

 

I just played Thousand Sons. Let me tell you that can be an oppressive army. I heard the horror stories, and saw some competitive batreps but last night I faced it for the first time. Long story short, there's no way that I would even consider doing a full out assault with Wolves against the Thousand Sons (particularly what I saw across from me.)

 

Just for clarity; my WE are exceptionally fast, advance and charge available, and 'bloodsurge' towards opponents in their shooting phase. I played a strong game, I got a bit lucky with 2 x 11" charges and literally had my way with that army and still by T4 I had almost nothing left. The shooting and psychic is so oppressive... I often had no save, or I was saving against Flamers with AP-3, and bolters with AP-3. That army completely mows elite infantry, all of it. It was only my speed and long bomb charges that won me the game. 

 

Further I don't think the Wolves are going to out assault the likes of WE and Deathguard. I don't like those match ups at all. The Wolves seem to want to steer you generally towards infantry/assault but I am seeing that it's going to be extremely beneficial to have a heavy dose of shooting in the list. At this point I'm thinking my assault units will only be specialized units, but I think most of the list is going to have to have competent range.

[DanPesci]

Just to chime in here Prot, as have now had a couple of games with my wolves this week.

 

In both I'd used SotHunter (I have zero interest in running gladius/stormlance), not only did my wolves feel like wolves, they were fun to play and did remarkably well.

 

My first game was up against my mates Tsons list which he was practicing for an upcoming tournament with (so the same kinda AP-3 flamers and bolter shtick).

He conceded turn 3 after being overrun/not being able to get me off the midfield fast enough. Tsons can be very oppressive but not having any 'big' targets in my list (e.g. no 20 man bloodclaw unit, no 6 man wolf guard) - meant that when they were using buffs/spells, they were killing stuff but spending a lot more pts/investment doing so.

 

I had a similar experience in my second game against my friends guard army (not the most competitive list, but still guard shooting with several vehicles inc rogal dorn and the chemcannon anti-marine hellhounds in there etc). I was worried here about not being able to get through vehicles not going beastslayer, but again, my opponent had conceded by end of T3.

 

In both games id still lost a lot of stuff by then, probably 2/3 of my army, but id outscored them on primary to such an extent that they weren't getting back in the game.

 

I cant really comment on the out-assaulting WE/DG issues as not had those sort of matchups yet - but id imagine hunter to be good in these situations (hitting on 2s, then later game wounding on 3 against WE, probs 4s against DG)

 

Ive added my list below (ill caveat that I take a deimos pred, we allow legends in our group of mates in most games). 

 

 

Stuff I've found with hunter/these games:

 

The saga is easy enough to complete, especially if the opponent screens with chaff (if they don't, you are on the midboard T1 with M7 and advances).

Outnumbering vehicles is pretty much guaranteed, and then hitting them on 2s, wounding on 5s by the time you've unlocked the saga is great (sure, you aren't having the lethals in shooting like beastslayer...but I've found I haven't needed it once i make combat and have the +1 to wound).

 

The new board layouts/mission packs are fairly easy to keep stuff hidden whilst moving up the board. Or enough so that your opponent has to come out to deal with you whilst you still have some models getting cover.

 

bloodclaw units are great for 135pts, adv+charge makes them very fast and putting the scout enhancement in one of them pretty much guarantees a T1 combat kill (i put a priest with them so they are already getting the +1 to wound). Im running 10 man units, not 20.

6" consolidation strats and the bounding lope strat can also get them places the opponent really doesn't want them/hadnt anticipated.

 

Grey hunter units coming on/moving up later game in T3 im also having great success with. In both games the OC3 helped me retain control of an objective when they wouldnt have at OC2, and the strat to stick an objective was super useful in one of my games too. Reroll wounds of one, or full rerolls against obj units is really quite nasty, even against tough stuff theyre doing wounds.

 

Current List

 

 

Logan

Ragnar

Bjorn

Wolf Priest (Swift)

Battle Leader (Rage)

Long Fang Lord / Gravis Captain (Grit)

 

Grey Hunters 

Grey Hunters 

Blood Claws x10

Blood Claws x10

 

Wolf guard Terminators (4x SS, Leader with Axe)

Headtakers x3 (dual weapons) Wolves x3

Wolf Scouts / Eliminators x3 (sniper bolters, bolt carbine)

Long Fangs / Eradicators x3

TWC x3

Deimos Predator (MagnaMelta Cannon, 2x Las, HKM)

 

 

 

 

 

[Prot]

Thanks Dan, that's some great info/feedback.

 

So you're actually taking 40 Troops? Wow. That is kind of going against the mainstream, but I like it, and you can't argue with success.

 

I am still leaning towards Headtakers w/Shields. I just see the extra two attacks as 'okay' but the 4+ invuln almost essential to get opponents to really commit.  But that's just me. Maybe more of a... playstyle preference.  I may just do a second squad of 3 with dual swords.

 

How has Logan/Terminators done for you?

 

 

 

[DanPesci]

On 7/2/2025 at 4:28 PM, Prot said:

Thanks Dan, that's some great info/feedback.

 

So you're actually taking 40 Troops? Wow. That is kind of going against the mainstream, but I like it, and you can't argue with success.

 

I am still leaning towards Headtakers w/Shields. I just see the extra two attacks as 'okay' but the 4+ invuln almost essential to get opponents to really commit.  But that's just me. Maybe more of a... playstyle preference.  I may just do a second squad of 3 with dual swords.

 

How has Logan/Terminators done for you?

 

 

 

 

 

Haha aye 40 troops, it just feels wrong to me to not have em in there - but im of the vintage where force organisation was always a thing. Ive run Grey Hunters in razorbacks since 5th with a squad of bloodclaws or morkai - since ive lost the option for razorbacks its now just all on foot and padded out with the models from the battle box. Both games although sure, they can be killed, theres still so many of em its hard to take them all down (or at least was in the games ive played).

 

Id say competitively the shields on small units of headtakers is the way to go. The extra attacks are nice but haven't massively been converting for me - really the squad of 3 has acted more as a bodyguard for getting ragnar adv+charging up the board (so shields would probably work better....but rule of cool dual weapons is the way to go for me!).

 

I think in a big squad of 6 WGHT you either go dual weapons and battle leader/ragnar to try max out the dev wound potential with sustained/get them in fast, or shields and priest to have em more tanky and bring back one a turn (the +1 to wound already helps them punch up too, but in hunter you can end up doubling down on that due to the saga unlock - the priest in other detachments makes more sense I guess)

 

Logan has been great, one game I ran him with the terminators, one game just solo (even though his terminators landed next to him in the end).

The +1CP bubble is worth its weight in gold, and ive found his deployment shenanigans great too, really has an opponent double guessing stuff/having to be careful screening out their backfield when i can potentially drop teminators/grey hunters/eradicators into their backfield T2. 

 

The terminators are cheap/durable enough to stick about (4W with -1 on the stuff that matters), and coming in late game hopefully have +1 to wound in hunter against anything nasty).

[Prot]

Thanks for the info Dan. I’ve run Headtakers both ways and I’m not really finding the extra attacks are quite enough to offset a 4+ invuln will get you. Ironically as you mentioned , I happened to run 6 with shields and the priest. They’re a real pain to get rid of.  I think both builds work but if I was in a cut throat tournament playing purely to win, I’m taking shields. Last night I played against Thousand sons. The amount of times they can put you on a 6+ save is truly staggering. I found the shields nearly mandatory. They’re a real 1K sons can feel very oppressive at 12-18”. 
 

so I had two games recently. Played Saga for both. I’m not seeing a real use for the other 2 Sagas. Some quick notes as I, pressed for time:

 

- oddly enough I wasn’t all that impressed with Grimnar.  He looks so good on paper but it’s his CP ability, and deep strike abilities rhat really make him shine. Personally I think Azrael and Calgar are a bit better. But Logan is still economical, as are Azrael and Calgar. ( I’ve played the later 2 quite a bit in the past year). The Logan model is just too damn good to not play regardless.  What a sculpt 

 

- head takers.  I’m still split. If fielding 3 , shields are a must. I’m most likely bringing them off an edge in a sticky situation, maybe even an action. And they need shields. 6 man? I’ve run them each way in two games. Against a janky GSC army the dual armed but hard and faded fast. Against Tsons, as mentioned shields were gold.  If money weren’t an option I’d do 6 of each (I field 9) 

 

- Termies. I may take heat for this, but they stink. They’re simply meat to protect Logan. They have very little kill potential, and feel a little expensive. I think Headtakers are a far better choice. However I love these models and will continue to use a squad. I’d really love to get Arjac in the mix with some but I fear the list becomes too small and inefficient. 
 

- the troops are okay. The Grey Hunters are certainly over priced but in my second game they finally out OC’d an opponent long enough to deny a point they were sure they had. Lack of special rules/weapons and their size and points do make these a tough choice. But I’m getting okay results with 10 of them and 10 Bloodclaws. 
 

- Bjorn is great. Feels in a good spot and fairly fluffy. 
 

- iron priest. Already seeing a nerf…. But till now is great with my pred annihilator. 
 

hopefully I can post some pics in a hobby thread soon. I met my goal of finishing the pre release box set this last Saturday!  

[Karhedron]

12 hours ago, Prot said:

- oddly enough I wasn’t all that impressed with Grimnar.  He looks so good on paper but it’s his CP ability, and deep strike abilities rhat really make him shine. Personally I think Azrael and Calgar are a bit better. But Logan is still economical, as are Azrael and Calgar. ( I’ve played the later 2 quite a bit in the past year). The Logan model is just too damn good to not play regardless.  What a sculpt 

 

I agree that Azrael and Calgar are really good for their points and there is a reason they crop up in a lot of competitive lists. Logan is interesting but I am not sure we will see him with the same frequency.

 

Having said that, the new Drop Pod rules finally look interesting. Maybe combining Pods and Logans rule to bring in some T1 hurt could be good. Logan can be used to bring in some Inceptors for shooting rather than melee. 3 Damage and AP-4 on plasma Inceptors when they overcharge is pretty tasty and Saga of the Beastslayer giving them Lethal hits makes targeting T10+ units more viable.

  

12 hours ago, Prot said:

- head takers.  I’m still split. If fielding 3 , shields are a must. I’m most likely bringing them off an edge in a sticky situation, maybe even an action. And they need shields. 6 man? I’ve run them each way in two games. Against a janky GSC army the dual armed but hard and faded fast. Against Tsons, as mentioned shields were gold.  If money weren’t an option I’d do 6 of each (I field 9)

 

I think 6 with Shields and a Wolf Priest or 6 with Dual Weapons and a WGBL to maximise the respective buffs. 3-man units can work either way and give the option to bring really cheap Hunting Wolf packs for screening, Actions etc.

 

12 hours ago, Prot said:

- Termies. I may take heat for this, but they stink. They’re simply meat to protect Logan. They have very little kill potential, and feel a little expensive. I think Headtakers are a far better choice. However I love these models and will continue to use a squad. I’d really love to get Arjac in the mix with some but I fear the list becomes too small and inefficient. 

 

I really want to like WG Termies but they don't seem to hit hard enough. Deathwing Knights outperform them for both offence (with their Maces) and defense (-1 Damage is huge on T5 4W 2+/4++ models). Arjac boosts the killing power but he is not cheap. Still Arjac is a Knight-killer and as long as big stompy death robots are riding high in the meta, I can potential for Arjac to earn his points back.

  

12 hours ago, Prot said:

- the troops are okay. The Grey Hunters are certainly over priced but in my second game they finally out OC’d an opponent long enough to deny a point they were sure they had. Lack of special rules/weapons and their size and points do make these a tough choice. But I’m getting okay results with 10 of them and 10 Bloodclaws. 

 

Possibly a good way to deploy Grey Hunters is in Drop Pods since they balance shooting and melee. Drop them into range T1 with a WGBL and hose the enemy with carbine fire. If you make the 9" charge then it is a bonus.

  

12 hours ago, Prot said:

- Bjorn is great. Feels in a good spot and fairly fluffy. 

 

What are you arming Bjorn with? I am thinking Frost Cannon but not 100% decided yet. The MM doesn;t hit as hard but does have twice the rate of fire.