New Templar Codex Supplement

[Sir Clausel]

If Sword Brethren dont get d2 power swords they will either have to be way too cheap to be an elite unit or just plain bad sadly. 

 

I see i forgot Grimaldus seems to lose his 5+++ but gains +1 t. If its his stats thats changing it doesnt matter that much but if its the unit buff then its a pretty big deal. I feel it will be a nerf vs most stuff. 

Im still optimistic and cant wait to see our detachments! Especially if we do get vows as army rule instead 

[Sete]

We gotta wait for the Detachments and Vows to have the full picture.

[Medjugorje]

6 hours ago, redmapa said:

If those rumors are true then it feels like a good sidegrade for us as it gives everything that is currently keeping our lackluster winrate afloat while opening the design space for detachments and different buffs. Overall I like the changes so far but its a big IF to it being true, it wouldnt be the first time GW changed their design paradigm late in an edition but only for us? I would expect tha Wolves would also lose Oath and gain something and its also shows GW to be very in tune as to what works within a faction which isnt exactly our experience with GW balance.

a lot of their buffs only work in their detachments. And only for SW units - not Astartes units. GW dont want us to play the normal SM detachments because we have an advantage because of more datasheets... and a disantvantage in our current state because of Special Oath (+1to wound). For them (and i think so as well) its better to give the big 4 chapters their own books. 

 

In my pov:

 

Space Marine Codex (Ultramarines as dominant faction) vs Chaos Space Marines Codex (Black Legion as dominant faction

 

Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Black Templars vs World Eaters, Emperors Children, Death Guard and Thousand Sons.

 

both share a bunch of same units (Chaos Rhino, Forgefiend, Helbrute....) but they all have various rules. And the rumors about our Marshal shows the difference right now... and even the Space Wolves have that already. 

[Medjugorje]

5 hours ago, Sir Clausel said:

If Sword Brethren dont get d2 power swords they will either have to be way too cheap to be an elite unit or just plain bad sadly. 

 

I see i forgot Grimaldus seems to lose his 5+++ but gains +1 t. If its his stats thats changing it doesnt matter that much but if its the unit buff then its a pretty big deal. I feel it will be a nerf vs most stuff. 

Im still optimistic and cant wait to see our detachments! Especially if we do get vows as army rule instead 

a few things said right here.

World Eaters lost a lot of their table like more movement... but was built in the datasheet. lets say  the swords get +1 dmg and their ws is 2+ and 3+ on the hammer they would be still awesome.  If they completely loose their dmg but receive ws 2+ and +1S and +1ap  i would take them in my lists (currently i do not!!!!!!!!!)

 

 

And Sete is correct. We dont know how the vows will change. If Uphold will be the same but AaC will be sustained + reroll all hit rolls in close combat and Suffer not... let you reroll all wound rolls it can be really crazy.

[Sir Clausel]

Yeah we only know a tiny bit of whats to come. Its just fun to think about. 

I really hope our vows dont just grants some kind of reroll. There is enough of that already in 40k. 

[Indy Techwisp]

4 hours ago, Medjugorje said:

In my pov:

 

Space Marine Codex (Ultramarines as dominant faction) vs Chaos Space Marines Codex (Black Legion as dominant faction

 

Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Black Templars vs World Eaters, Emperors Children, Death Guard and Thousand Sons.

 

both share a bunch of same units (Chaos Rhino, Forgefiend, Helbrute....) but they all have various rules. And the rumors about our Marshal shows the difference right now... and even the Space Wolves have that already. 

 

Unlike the BTs and the rest of the LSM supplements, the Cult Marines don't get to soup anything they want from CSM, just a very specific tailored list of effectively reprints.

[Sir Clausel]

Our time is coming boys! I cant wait!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/dlcascsr/sunday-preview-muster-the-knights-and-templars-of-the-far-future/

[redmapa]

Awesome! Kind of weird we didnt get an army box but the new Combat Patrol looks ace and the limited edition codex is golden, I love it! Cant wait to see the rules preview this week.

[Marshal Reinhard]

Not gonna lie, the questionable proportions of cover art of the codex, has me eyeing the limited edition. Surely won't be worth the price...... but

 

Bigger issue is how many copies of two characters to get

[Sir Clausel]

10 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Bigger issue is how many copies of two characters to get

Ill probably just start with one. As i have already converted one Execrator and im not too keen on ancients but it is a kickass mini and for the amount bits for future conversions is too much not to get!

[Medjugorje]

18 datasheets - please count the current one - you will be surprised!!!!!!!!!!

[Sir Clausel]

Yeah we have 14 atm. 

If we count add the 2 new ones and remove the old firstborn crusader squad that gets us to 15. 

People are specuating that we get sternguard and normal terminators with a different rules as their rules interact with oath. 

The last one is a bit harder to pin point. Maybe crusader squads get split in ranged and melee?

Edited July 21 by Sir Clausel

[Brat Igorus]

7 hours ago, Medjugorje said:

18 fiches techniques - veuillez compter la fiche actuelle - vous serez surpris !!!!!!!!!!

You know something brother don't act like a Dark Angel

 

Edited July 21 by Brat Igorus

[redmapa]

Yeah its interesting that we are getting extra units in some way, I agree with everyone speculating that the rumor that we swap Oath for Vows as an army rule seem like the more probbable explanation in which case the three datasheets would be Sternguard, Terminators and a third unit that I dont remember which one it is.

[Brother Captain Alberic]

13 hours ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Not gonna lie, the questionable proportions of cover art of the codex, has me eyeing the limited edition. Surely won't be worth the price...... but

 

Bigger issue is how many copies of two characters to get

Think collectors edition is different to limited my mate has world eaters limited edition and that had special

Objectives with it. Don’t think this has and I don’t think it’s limited exactly.

 

[Marshal Reinhard]

37 minutes ago, Brother Captain Alberic said:

Think collectors edition is different to limited my mate has world eaters limited edition and that had special

Objectives with it. Don’t think this has and I don’t think it’s limited exactly.

 

yeah "sacred collector's" is what they called it. Used the wrong word.

 

still, haven't even gotten the 10th ed space marine codex (and not likely, given the rumors of a 2.0), just not a fan of the new art (nor were I of the 9th one, but I got the special cover from launch box, with the legendary Blanche piece as its cover).

[Marshal Reinhard]

Rules Preview has dropped

 

Of the vows, Accept any challenge seems the best, at a glance?

 

ACCEPT ANY CHALLENGE, NO MATTER THE ODDS

Each time this unit makes a melee attack, if the Strength characteristic of that attack is less than or equal to the Toughness characteristic of the target, add 1 to the Wound roll.

 

Also, there's a quite a few unit restrictions, courtesy of Heirs of Sigismund:

 

HEIRS OF SIGISMUND

• If an ADEPTUS ASTARTES unit has a second Faction keyword on its datasheet, that Faction keyword is the name of that unit's Chapter. For example, High Marshal Helbrecht has both the ADEPTUS ASTARTES and BLACK TEMPLARS Faction keywords, and is therefore from the Black Templars Chapter.

• You cannot include units from more than one Chapter in your army.

• If your army includes one or more units from the Black Templars Chapter or you are using one of the Detachments found on the following pages:

  • ADEPTUS ASTARTES units from your army lose the Oath of Moment army rule (if they have it), and it is replaced with the Templar Vows army rule (see above).

  • You cannot use the 1st Company Task Force Detachment (see Codex: Space Marines). 

  • Your army cannot include any ADEPTUS ASTARTES PSYKER models.

  • Your army cannot include the following datasheets from Codex: Space Marines: Gladiator Lancer; Gladiator Reaper; Gladiator Valiant; Impulsor; Land Raider Crusader; Repulsor; Repulsor Executioner; Sternguard Veteran 

Of course, most of the vehicles it restricts there, I expect have their own sheet in the codex supplement. Sternguard veterans stand out there, as I don't think they'll have a Templar variant?

 

EDIT: No, never mind, the article itself says "As in previous Codex Supplements, several datasheets – such as the Gladiator tanks and Sternguard Veterans – have their own Black Templars version with different rules and weapon options, so the originals can’t be taken in these armies. Templars respect the Rule of Three!", meaning that one of the 18 datasheets is for Sternguard veterans!

Edited July 21 by Marshal Reinhard

[Sir Clausel]

I also noticed they say Land raider crusader but not the others. So ours will get new rules. Hopefully for the better!

 

But Accept seems like the best vow.

Edited July 21 by Sir Clausel

[Kilamandaros]

Do we think it'll be these 3 'new' detachments plus Righteous Crusaders & Wrathful Procession, or they likely to be removed enitrely? Obviously RC would need a total rework with vows replacing OoM. Perhaps just Wrathful Procession will be kept...

 

An entire detachment based around a specific character type feels a bit meh but will hold out hope for the others. Army-wide charge/advance rerolls is fine, though kind of invalidates the unit rule for Crusader squads (unless that's changing of course).

[redmapa]

New weapon options for BT Sternguard? Oh my! Odd that they didnt mention Terminator Squad as half their rules rely on Oath, I imagine that if we dont get a datasheet then normal Terminators will just be worse for us.

 

Im loving all the rules so far, they seem flavorful, fun and honestly a step in the right direction in terms of making an army feel distinct from others within the same faction, kind of wild we were the only chapter to get this treatment when I would have imagined SW to get this sort of rule before us.

 

The two detachments they previewed seem sort of versatile, they pidgeon hole you in taking one unit, Ancients and Transports, but you can do all sorts of lists with that like Terminator Ancients with Assault Terminators or Ancients with Crusader Squads for a more horde style or with Bladeguard Veterans, it still sort of open to plenty of list ideas imo and thats not even counting how Vows will influence your choices when youre making a list.

 

Im using that transport detachment day one, got 5 Land Raiders and I swear i will make them work!.

[Sir Clausel]

I dont think sternguard gets new weapons. Just a new rule since the one they have i oath dependant. 

Terminators also have one but they are not mentioned. Either its a mistake or they get new rules in a rumored sm dex 2.0.

 

I dont like the Ancient detachment since its reliance on ancients. Also you have to be on an objective. And only vs higher strength. Too many hoops. And also we need to sell the new model.

But a transport(land raider) detachment sounds nice and a footslogging one giving reroll to advance and charge rolls seems good! Especially with Execrators.

Edited July 21 by Sir Clausel

[Tokugawa]

Unless shamelessly pushed by undercosted datasheets, the ancient detachment would quite possibly be weak. Just too narrow. 

 

At least a chaplain themed detachment would have more options(Grimaldus, new Excerator, jump, TDA) and more "lore friendly".

[redmapa]

So apparently theres a youtuber called Dorn of War that has done a review of the codex, there are no pictures so this all may be nothing but heres what he says its in there

 

Detachment 1

Companions of Vehemence- Reroll Charges and Advances

Enhancements

Incendiary animus- 1AP bonus to the units weapons

Oathbound exemplar- add 1 to advance and charge rolls

Mercyless denunciation- Chaplain or Judiciar, reroll to hit in melee

Zealous Vanguard- Bearers unit gains Scout

 

Stratagems

Devout Push- Pile in and Consolidation moves are 6''

Hearts Hardened to Duty- Consolidation move may not end closer to an enemy unitt

For the Emperors Honor-Melee weapons gain precision in the fight phase

Pious Enmity- Chaplain or Judiciar, reroll 1s to hit, if a monster or vehicle also reroll 1s to wound

Heresy begets retribution- Chaplain or Judiciar unit, if an enemy unit ends an advance or fall back move within 9'' of this unit then they can move D6'' towards that enemy unit 

Dread Crusaders- After an enemy unit declares a charge against one of your units the charging enemy unit must take a battle shock test

 

Detachment 2

God-Hammer Assault Force- Disembarking units that declare a charge cause a battle shock test to the enemy unit they charge and add 1 to hit roll in melee

Enhancements

Paragon of Fury- +2S to melee weapons to the bearer and +1D to the bearer if they disembarked

Battle Psalm Prescenter- -1 to an enemy battle shock test if its triggered through the detachments rule

Augury Servo Host- Select 1 enemy unit in your shooting phase within 12'' of the bearer, that unit cannot benefit from cover

Herald of Sacred Slaughter- If the bearer starts embarked on a dedicated transport then that transport gains Scout 9''

 

Stratagems

Ceaseless Cause- Infantry unit that was eligible to fight this phase and not in combat can move 6'', cannot embark on a transport if it disembarked in the same turn

Uncompromising egress- Land Raider unit, units can disembark within 6'' and within engagement range

Gauntlet of the God Emperor- Vehicle unit can move horizontally through terrain

Focus Hatred- Charge phase, Infantry unit can move through enemy models but can only end its charge within engagement range of its target unit

Condemnotary info screed- FIght phase, infantry unit that hasnt been selected to fight yet, if it disembarked from a transport reroll 1s to wound, if it disembarked from a Land Raider reroll all wound rolls

Blessed Hull- Opponents shooting phase, one of your vehicles gets -1 damage against incoming enemy attacks

 

Grimaldus relics are +1T or +1AP for melee weapons or +1 to advance and charge

Helbrecht, Crusade of Wrath  is +1A and Strength to the unit, still does mortal wounds

Emperos Champion, Lone Op and moves 8'', +2" to charge rolls against character units, it also has anti character 5+ and devastating wounds vs Characters

Castellan, its unit must take a LD check in the fight phase, if pass then all hit rerolls and if it fails only reroll hits of 1. Gains extra CP from destroyed units.

Marshall, critical hits on 5s in melee

Sword Brethren, if an enemy unit falls back and this unit isnt in engagement range then SB can move 6"

Sternguard, rerolls 1s to wound against the closest enemy unit

Terminator Squad, if a unit falls back they must make a desperate escape 

Land Raider Crusader,  gives rerolls 1s to hit and to wound to disembarking units against enemy units that the LRC shot at, its now a giant razorback.

 

 

 

Edited July 23 by redmapa

[Sir Clausel]

While alot of this is probably true. Its done with AI from a guy claiming he has the codex. 

So there is probably some stuff that is not quite as written. 

There is some confusion around Sword Brethren about how many attacks they have and what they hit on. And also damage. Though its mot likely d2 power swords.

 

But overall i like this. Most of this is good and fun!

[redmapa]

Yeah if its true and he was reading from the codex then its a lot of new rules that certainly change the way the army works, between all the new unit mechanics, new vows and new detachments I think our playstyle will certainly change in some way and whether it ends up being effective in the game or not I think it will at least be fun. I really   like the sound of the vehicle detachment, you can just hide a Land Raider behind cover, pop the strat to move through terrain and charge, that opens up a lot of opportunities  as does the relic to give scout to a transport which you can use to move forward or as a sort of redeploy to hide behind cover. 

 

Im not sure how I would use the new LRC rule but considering it can take way more units than a Razorback it feels like it could be very good.