What brush on matte varnish do you recommend?

[Helias_Tancred]

Subject says it all. Thanks. 

 

 

[Rusted Boltgun]

I've had success with Instar's matte varnish.

I usually apply two light coats by brush.

I can't comment on any others as I haven't tried them, stumbled across Instar when I was getting back into the hobby.

 

Instar Varnish+

 

In their blurb they reference an AK product which I'm sure I have seen mentioned on here and I would probably look at next time depending on price, availability and volume.

 

Edit: apologies, hadn't checked your location - Instar might not be that available/cost-effective in the USA.

Edited June 25 by Rusted Boltgun
Oops

[sbarnby71]

Vallejo Matt Varnish (7.520), applied by brush - usually over decals to hide the Gloss Varnish I apply before the decal goes on.

[Tallarn Commander]

I've been using Testor's Dullcote for years.

[Bryan Blaire]

I use the AK Interactive UltraMatte both by brush and through an air brush and it works great both ways.

 

For brush, I usually thin it 2-4:1 varnish:AK 3rd Gen acrylic thinner just to get it a bit more fluid, and watch for it to be too milky looking on the model, which causes discoloration. The thinner I use it, the more layers I will brush on.

[Helias_Tancred]

2 hours ago, Tallarn Commander said:

I've been using Testor's Dullcote for years.

 

They make a variant that is brush on? I've been using the spray for years now, it's superior for the sprays imo. 

[Helias_Tancred]

I made this post because for the past 6 months to a year I've been using Winsor & Newton Galeria Matt Varnish out of the bottle (big bottle) ... but lately I've been noticing that it has flaws, mainly too thick, gunks up in corners or covers smaller openings and areas like that. I thought initially it was great but now after some time I'm seeing it is not optimum. 

 

 

5 hours ago, sbarnby71 said:

Vallejo Matt Varnish (7.520), applied by brush - usually over decals to hide the Gloss Varnish I apply before the decal goes on.

 

I've been using that since I got into the hobby back around 2012. I usually use it like you said, when working with decals. I wish it came in a spray, or to be candid there is nothing stopping me from brushing it on all over the model?

 

 

[Firedrake Cordova]

1 hour ago, Helias_Tancred said:

I wish it came in a spray

Airbrush makes all paints come in a spray.  (obviously not helpful if you don't have the space for an airbrush set-up)

[Urauloth]

10 hours ago, sbarnby71 said:

Vallejo Matt Varnish (7.520), applied by brush - usually over decals to hide the Gloss Varnish I apply before the decal goes on.

Do you thin it with anything, or apply it neat? 

[Helias_Tancred]

18 minutes ago, Urauloth said:

Do you thin it with anything, or apply it neat? 

 

Are you indirectly suggesting that I should thin the Winsor & Newton Galeria Matt Varnish I'm complaining about? What would I use? Water?

 

 

[Urauloth]

1 hour ago, Helias_Tancred said:

 

Are you indirectly suggesting that I should thin the Winsor & Newton Galeria Matt Varnish I'm complaining about? What would I use? Water?

 

 

No, I've no experience with that one.
I was curious because the Vallejo varnish seems fairly thick to me. I've used it to fill gaps, but not to varnish painted models, so I was wondering if it needs thinning when it's used for that.

[sbarnby71]

5 hours ago, Urauloth said:

Do you thin it with anything, or apply it neat? 

Thinned with water I've put through a Brita Filter (I live in a hard water area, so I use filtered water). Can't say what ratio I use, but more water than varnish. I tend to go lots of water that way I can go back with another coat if needed and less chance of gunking up small details.

[Firedrake Cordova]

6 hours ago, Helias_Tancred said:

Are you indirectly suggesting that I should thin the Winsor & Newton Galeria Matt Varnish I'm complaining about? What would I use? Water?

If you think it could benefit from being thinned, then yes, adding a little water to it could help.

[sbarnby71]

Just looked into the Windsor & Newton varnish and I used to use it back when I was an art student about 37 years ago, never tried it on Models, I must admit I would probably not use that as it's really designed for paintings - yeah I know painted models are paintings, but if you can I would go for something designed for models.  Even a 17ml Vallejo bottle when thinned will last a very long time.

 

One question, what is your goal for the Matt varnish?  Are you looking to protect the model or maybe remove the shine from it (various paints and washes can leave a model with different degrees of shine)?  Matt varnish is not very hard-wearing compared to gloss, so if you're going for protection, a lot of folks use Gloss (high protection), then Matt to remove the shine.  Me personally I only paint for display so my models don't get handled, so a thin Matt coat is fine to just give a consistent flat finish and reduce the shine. 

 

I sometimes use GW Lahmian Medium to achieve the flat finish - but I have had some issue with tiny crystals of mixture or pigment in that which shows up as small white dots, mostly you can't see it, but when you take a really detailed picture they can show up and ruin a nice paint job - could be my pot is getting old and clumpy.

[WBRBloom]

14 hours ago, Bryan Blaire said:

I use the AK Interactive UltraMatte both by brush and through an air brush and it works great both ways.

 

For brush, I usually thin it 2-4:1 varnish:AK 3rd Gen acrylic thinner just to get it a bit more fluid, and watch for it to be too milky looking on the model, which causes discoloration. The thinner I use it, the more layers I will brush on.

 

 

I use the same, but with a different medium to dilute. I got this recipe from Duncan Rhodes. AK Interactive UltraMatte varnish diluted with Citadel Contrast Medium 1:1. It has worked like a charm. Just keep in mind, better do it in a couple of thin coats (pun intended) rather than going for 1 thick. It tends to dry very matte and very white-y if it's applied thick.

 

I tend to go heavy on metal models, especially my two old metal chaos dreadnoughts that have a lot of spikey bits on them have been thoroughly covered by it, and it has worked like a charm.

 

I've also applied it via airbrush, for larger unit spraying, with excellent results. Just remember to do a thorough cleaning of the pins and needles after you use it as it tends to gunk on and become gummy, if any residue stays in.

[Firedrake Cordova]

1 hour ago, sbarnby71 said:

Matt varnish is not very hard-wearing compared to gloss, so if you're going for protection, a lot of folks use Gloss (high protection), then Matt to remove the shine.

Whilst this was the case, it might not be the case any more - I know Vallejo claim that their varnishes all offer the same degree of protection, irrespective of the finish, so it might be worth checking with the manufacturer.  

[Oxydo]

The gloss being more resistant that matt varnish hasnt really been a thing for the past 20 years or so. The only difference between them in "modern" solutions is the surface finish really.

[Helias_Tancred]

18 hours ago, sbarnby71 said:

Just looked into the Windsor & Newton varnish and I used to use it back when I was an art student about 37 years ago, never tried it on Models, I must admit I would probably not use that as it's really designed for paintings - yeah I know painted models are paintings, but if you can I would go for something designed for models.  Even a 17ml Vallejo bottle when thinned will last a very long time.

 

One question, what is your goal for the Matt varnish?  Are you looking to protect the model or maybe remove the shine from it (various paints and washes can leave a model with different degrees of shine)?  Matt varnish is not very hard-wearing compared to gloss, so if you're going for protection, a lot of folks use Gloss (high protection), then Matt to remove the shine.  Me personally I only paint for display so my models don't get handled, so a thin Matt coat is fine to just give a consistent flat finish and reduce the shine. 

 

I sometimes use GW Lahmian Medium to achieve the flat finish - but I have had some issue with tiny crystals of mixture or pigment in that which shows up as small white dots, mostly you can't see it, but when you take a really detailed picture they can show up and ruin a nice paint job - could be my pot is getting old and clumpy.

 

Protect the model, remove shine especially from decals.

 

 

[sbarnby71]

4 hours ago, Helias_Tancred said:

 

Protect the model, remove shine especially from decals.

 

 

Then for me, I would do gloss varnish on the piece the decal is going on, so if it's a shoulder-pad, cover the whole pad area, then apply the decal, then matt varnish.  The reason I do the whole bit with gloss and not just the spot the decal is being applied to is matt varnish covers the shine, but you can sometimes still see a shine from the edge of the decal, so the gloss helps create an even shine, that the matt then tones down.  I have had on some models a case where the shiny edge of the decal almost gets locked into the matt varnish and no matter how many layers of matt you apply, the shine still is visible, so I use the gloss first and then you get an even shine, not just the decal edges standing out.

 

Micro Sol and Micro Set can help get rid of that shiny edge on some decals, but I would still always use the gloss and matt varnish as well.

 

As others have corrected me on the matt being less hard-wearing, just go for a matt coat,, a few thin coats will be best.  I use a matt varnish during painting when I'm using certain colours (Mephiston Red is the worst) as I find they don't stand up to being handled whilst painting so I see the raised edges of models losing colour, so I apply my red, then apply a matt varnish on it so it won't rub off as I'm working.

[Marshal Rohr]

AK UltraMatte is great but not hard wearing, simple gaming will remove it in a few months. A mix of AK or Vallejo ultramatte and contrast medium works pretty well and is what Duncan Rhodes uses.