Playing old editions and games - practical reality and prospects

[Captain Idaho]

As people may have noticed, the Horus Heresy new rules, particularly the Liber army rules, are causing quite a bit of consternation within the hobby. Seems online that more people are unhappy than proportionally happy with the leaks of the entire game we've seen.

 

Aside from little shell hopes like it's an out of date leak and they done good really, we have a concept that crops up at times like these whether the alternative of playing older games and editions is a viable alternative. 

 

There's broadly 2 positions here really, with an if and a but, however I'll cut straight to my position:

 

Old editions have shallow support in the community and barely any practical lifespan amongst the majority of gaming groups. Old games, like those out of print or support, have more staying power but often that is a niche easily put to the sword with any modern supported alternative.

 

The reasons are usually one of zeitgeist perception and pure practicality. If you've got a job and family and can play maybe a couple times a month in a modest gaming group, or travel once a week to a club, then you prioritise what is being played and easy to access.

 

You'll review whether an edition is supported and how easy it is to play, source models and find others who also want to do so. If an edition is out of date, it's easier to get home from work and just dismiss learning the rules for it when you could just play modern Kill Team. Or whatever.

 

As I've mentioned before elsewhere, there's always an anecdote from people about playing an old edition but the practical of that is it's unlikely to have longevity or broad appeal.

 

Bottom line is; I work for a living, have a family to support, commit to boxing and coaching and time is very much finite. I just can't commit to the brain energy for something no one is playing.

 

That's my position and I could wax lyrical over it further but I really want to let other Frater explain their positions on the subject and yes, I want to be wrong on this so I can continue to enjoy 2nd edition Horus Heresy for example.

[Antarius]

4 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

I want to be wrong on this so I can continue to enjoy 2nd edition Horus Heresy for example.

If you have a group you're playing with, it's literally easier to keep playing 2nd than make the switch. Trying to resurrect an older edition is a different kettle of fish and that can be quite difficult, but at this point in time it's just a question of having a chat with the people you're already playing 2nd edition with.

[Captain Idaho]

Except I don't have a group I play regularly with. I was teeing them up to invest into new HH but that bubble has unfortunately burst. Struggling to get them interested right now.

 

So essentially it is a resurrection situation. Very concise wording there thank you. Stealing that.

[Redcomet]

12 minutes ago, Antarius said:

If you have a group you're playing with, it's literally easier to keep playing 2nd than make the switch. Trying to resurrect an older edition is a different kettle of fish and that can be quite difficult, but at this point in time it's just a question of having a chat with the people you're already playing 2nd edition with.

This is where I land too. This way you get to play a ruleset you enjoy, don’t have to learn a new one, and you get to have new plastic toys. The money saved from having to buy new books can go towards a new army.

[Brother Casman]

Well, there's always solo wargaming - I've picked up this ebook to read through: Solo Wargaming (@ Pen and Sword)

 

I recognize it's not a perfect solution for everyone, you need two armies and the space to set them up, etc, but with a blog space here, you could explore HH 2nd Edition and share your adventures with folks online. Maybe something to think about?

[Cleon]

For me the issue is it's a Pandora's box. Playing the current edition is a great default, then if you want to play an older game as a one off because there's something specific that'd be cool (we broke out rogue trader 1.5 to play the expanded battle of the farm mission) you can.

 

Choosing an old edition to be the 'main' game becomes a question (using the HH example) of 'if we aren't playing 3, is 2 actually better than 1.5?' (in this case reactions were poorly implemented and needed an errata/rebalance they never got) so we can then start then getting into 'I have no interest in playing against the IF Sigismund and WS5 power fist terminators with +BS assault cannon squads or blood Angles with multiple DS Incandus Contemptor forever, so do we start opening up each faction to re-write?... Each decision you make you lose interest from people who disagree with it (whether taking action or not taking action) and what starts as a promising group of eight people who don't like the new edition becomes three people who occasionally play the specific edition their forces work against each other for.

[N1SB]

I agree with everything said, because I actually believe everyone's thinking is in-line with each other, and it's this:

 

What we're all actually playing is our own metas.  For all the talk of games and editions and rulesets, it's whatever our meta settles on.

 

I have a few examples, starting with Warhammer, but branching out to other tabletop Hobbies.  Our Warhammer Store Manager loves setting up campaigns, giving freebies from that Event Box GW sends out, so we play a lot of Crusade campaigns, right now there's an AoS Spearhead campaign, they love their narratives as much as they love collecting points, so we have a Campaign-driven meta.  Then I remember right before 8th came out, which turned out to be my favourite edition early on, but there was doubt at that time and our group of Warhammer friends decided to let it shake out; if 8th was good, we all happily play that, if not, we'd all go back to 30k (1st ed, Alan Bligh era), so the popularity of the game determined the meta.  Finally, with our D&D group, we just stuck with D&D 5th ed because we just played with one another, it was what we were most comfortable with, every RPG troupe is its own meta.

 

The problem is (re)building a meta the hardest part.  The Warhammer Store Manager, the fanbase or...for D&D...the GM sets the meta.

 

I saw the ongoing conversation between Brother Idaho and Brother Char.  You actually do NOT disagree.  It's simply you have different metas.  Brother Idaho's meta seems to be just the general public; that's my Warhammer Store for me.  Brother Char meta is his circle of Warhammer friends; that WAS my friend Timperial Guard and a few others who moved away.

 

Brother Idaho, I hear you.  You can find time to play.  You can even squeeze time to paint.  But you do NOT have time to build up and market your own meta, like setting up a gaming club, a Facebook/Meetup/WhatsApp group to play against.  That's a full-time job, in fact, that's actually most of a Warhammer Store Manager's job, creating a meta (to sell to).

 

I have a very practical solution, I think: just wait & see how this shakes out.  We're debating a game that isn't even out yet.  You'll see what the meta around you will play, if it's 30k 2nd ed then just stick with that, if it's 3rd ed then start planning for that.  Iirc you got a bajillion Ultramarines, including the guy from that comic with the golden mask.  You good!

 

As for me...where's my Fury of the Ancients equivalent, huh?  I'M the REAL victim in all this.

Edited Sunday at 12:51 PM by N1SB

[Evil Eye]

As long as there's two people willing to play a game, it's not dead IMO. Trying to completely resurrect an old edition as the "main way to play" is nigh-impossible (sadly) but I think trying to get friends into playing older editions is a worthwhile endeavour. I'd also say that at least from my experience there's far more people that are playing old unsupported games/editions than you might think. I have some internet friends who play 6th edition WHFB regularly, and Mordheim has gone through a massive second wind in recent years, so it's definitely not unattainable.

[No Foes Remain]

I will say, Captain, 2.0 has the advantage of a legaly naughty site (name withheld to B&C rules) having the 2.0 rules on it. So those people who want to get into 30k but are put off by 3.0 can, as long as someone in their gaming circle, knows of that site and can access it and the rules.

 

Additionally, we have the advantage of technology these days as well. List builders like New Recruit have older editions of 40k (2nd, 3rd and 7th) and with come creative googling it won't be that hard to find PDFs of the rules to help with that.

 

As long as there is a interest, even just convicing a few people just to give a few one-off games a go, there will be ways to go back. And, as we all know for getting into the hobby, once you get the itch it's hard to not scratch it.

Edited Sunday at 05:08 PM by No Foes Remain

[Captain Idaho]

I'm not even sure what the legally naughty site is really but yeah free stuff is how I'll try and structure the local meta if I can. People are more inclined to be free in their thinking towards experimenting. 

[No Foes Remain]

8 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

I'm not even sure what the legally naughty site is really but yeah free stuff is how I'll try and structure the local meta if I can. People are more inclined to be free in their thinking towards experimenting. 

By 'legally naughty' I mean, a site that has the rules for 2.0 for free which isn't legal in any way shape or form, morally though it gets a bit muddied since it is GW and most legal things get fuzzy with them since they don't support older editions but are willing to crackdown on those having the rules for free.

 

Edit: Ah, seems like this site censors the name. That's fair I suppose, if you google 'horus heresy 2.0 rules' it will be the first site to come up.

Edited Sunday at 04:41 PM by No Foes Remain

[Indy Techwisp]

IMO an "Abandoned" game is easier to maintain for a community than a previous edition of an ongoing game since you don't have the original company who made it trying to push changes or move the player base onto something new.

 

Also, there's the Kneejerk Response some people have to just... drop the game in response to controversy rather than tough it out, meaning a group can simply fall apart before any attempt to keep the old editon going can be organised.

[DemonGSides]

Having the conversation with the people you're intending to play with instead of constantly gaming the conversation out on an online forum is probably the first step.

Gotta organize if you want to see things.  No one's going to do the hard work for you, and if its something you really want, it's worth doing.  My locality has games of all different editions going on (Admittedly I haven't seen much interest in 7th ed WH but I know people who still only play 9th, as crazy as they are).

You'd be surprised how many people are willing to play those older editions because they still have older collections.  They're just waiting for someone to make the first move.  If you're ALL waiting for someone to make the first move, no one will, so sometimes you're going to have to take the 'risk' and do the organization.  It's not hard to set up a calendar date and see who is interested in it, either on your local gaming clubs social media or their discord or even just IN the club itself; there's a bulletin board at our local place with all sorts of "Sign up and see who's interested" flyers.

 

Be the change you want to see.

[Doghouse]

@DemonGSides I completely agree. 

 

The current edition is destined to be the next out of print edition no one plays and the time that current edition is relevant is getting shorter and shorter with far less regard for people's existing model collection or the time they have spent on them. It's just the same old thing tweaked, rehashed and remarketed over and over and over again.

 

I think it boils down to people changing their mindset and breaking free from the new shiny mentality cycle that they are trapped in and learning to adopt more of a D&D editions mentality where players are willing to stick with an edition they enjoy or try other versions.

 

If people are new to the hobby then yeah fair enough, this current edition is their edition and they are the ones GW are targeting. But I still have every edition dating back to rogue trader so that doesn't apply to the likes of me. It surprises me when people talk about their favourite editions being stuff like 3rd or 5th but they'd rather struggle on with the latest edition or just sit it out altogether seeking alternatives.

 

It saddens me greatly to see how the production line is now the focus with masses of attention being paid to leaks, fomo, reveals and new releases, it's almost become a hobby in itself and I personally think creativity has suffered because of it.

 

I don't think things will really change until people stop seeing the hobby as a product and embrace it for what it used to be. 

[AenarIT]

As for abandoned games, I agree that they are easier for the community to maintain. I've been playing Mordheim almost exclusively since 40K 10th dropped (which I hate and made me quit 40k). The Mordheim scene is surprisingly very active despite it being a "dead" game for 20 years now. 

Past editions are certainly harder to play consistently.

 

But in both cases the solution is simple: having a solid gaming group. In my case it's a gaming club (with 100+ members across all tabletop games, boardgames and RPGs included) with a great venue, plenty of terrain and hobby material. 
 

Anyway, re: Mordheim one thing that helped us keeping it alive is a strong national gaming scene coalesced around a single central "organisation" (the "Mordheim Italia" fb group), that connects local groups all across the country. These groups, clubs, associations and individuals organise narrative events and tournaments all across Italy with a standardised set of rules and houserules (infopack), culminating in a yearly national event which blends tournament play and scenery building with a table competition (since Mordheim needs to be played on beautiful tables). A strong presence in both the two largest tabletop wargaming national conventions is also what helps us in attracting lots of new players. 

Oh and in less than 2 months time we'll have the very first 140-player Mordheim World Tournament in the castle of Casale Monferrato, Italy, with players flying in from all around the world. 3 different 2-day events and all the extra activities you can find at a convention.
Not bad at all for a game abandoned by GW in 2005 

 

Is it easy to replicate? Not at all. But it's possible.

If you're passionate enough about an old game or an old edition you just need to find other like-minded players and organise. 

Events, hobby days, game demos. Organise, organise, organise. It's the only way you can keep the interest in the game/edition you love and also attract new players. 

Edited Sunday at 08:36 PM by AenarIT

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

Playing with older editions:

You need a single person as the driver of the project and people with an open mind. Back in the day (around 2008) I founded a Blood Bowl league in a FLGS. First I asked around if there was interest and then did two practice games. The outcome was a league which ran for at least ten years and might even be a thing today. With that in mind I would suggest to sell the idea of a slow growth campaign in your hobby area. So the aim is to have a force of roughly 500-750 points in the beginning or even play Horus Heresy Kill-Team with your single squad in the meantime to not lose players during the first stage of the army project. If you don´t have the free time to do so then solo play might still be an option. The worst thing you could do is to play a supported game in your area which you loathe. 

 

 

[Kenzaburo]

I think, what the other fraters already mentioned is all very valid. I myself have fallen of the current edition wagon with 9th. God, how I hated that edition due to it's mental (over)load. Played one game of 10th and said good bye to current 40k. Too video gamey and the time invest needed is bonkers to me. Since we still want to play, we're gonna try OnePageRules next - we like the idea of putting our beloved 40k models on the table but having a faster game with less bookkeeping. If it were up to me we could also go back to 5th or maybe 8th, but I don't wanna end up converting new models to old rules. OPR does that for me. Still, we haven't played it yet, so I'll have to see if it's a fit.

 

But as you said: time is of the essence in certain phases of life and neither can I keep up with that new edition every 3 years cycle, nor do I have an interest in playing games that take 4-5 hours for a casual game once or twice a quarter. Nor do I really like current rules with all those units having circumstancial special rules that I can opt to trigger. I'd rather have a game, where all marines are basically equal but only differ in veterancy and equipment. You still need a group, though. In my case it's just my oldest friend and his son. But we are fine with that, really. :) 

[Sgt.Sangha]

@Captain Idaho I 100% agree with what youve stated. I have to change with editions simply because I have no one else to play with. I also have a family, a job and crazily enough I also coach boxing. I have fighters going to nationals and my work in health care is how i feed my family. 

Going to old editions where there arent even enough people playing the current edition is difficult.

[phandaal]

On 7/13/2025 at 6:12 AM, Captain Idaho said:

Bottom line is; I work for a living, have a family to support, commit to boxing and coaching and time is very much finite. I just can't commit to the brain energy for something no one is playing.

 

What if they are playing an older edition or game though? I was pessimistic on the ability to find people gaming outside of Current Edition Latest GT Pack 40k, but once I started looking it turned out that my area was full of people who wanted to do the same.

 

For context, my schedule is similar with full time work, family obligations, some days only enough free time to get in a workout and no hobby time, nights and weekends going to the kid etc. I get maybe one game per month, max. So it was very important to me that the games actually did happen in those limited windows.

 

(On the flip side, when time is so limited... Why spend it being jerked around on the back of GW's garbage truck modern rulesets?)

[Antarius]

I am in no way intending this as a zinger, but I can't understand how anyone can feel they don't have enough time to play an older edition, if the alternative is keeping up with the current edition. I mean, I pretty much gave up on the current edition(s) because it's a massive time (and energy) sink to keep up with them.

So, I urge anyone who thinks it might be too much work/time/investment to play an older edition to take a look at how much time, energy etc. they're spending on the current edition. My guess is that it's more than you'd need to play an older edition, even if you have to be the one organising it.

[Irongert]

I agree that playing older editions can be a challenge to get started with. It, as people said before, really depends on the local meta as it were. I used to play at a store and the only times we played older games was for an occasional nostalgia battle. All the "proper" gaming was current editon. Now I play at my home and we play whichever edition we like. Sometimes the current one, sometimes older ones. 

 

I have found this to be the case in general, usually the store centered groups play with the current edition. Logical, since it makes onboarding easier and that is what a store wants. People playing at home usually are more open to other versions of games etc. Only problem is, the groups playing at people's homes are usually not very visible. There might be several around close by but you'd never know because they don't advertise their existence. You'd have to get lucky to find one. One that has people you can get along with even at that. People who play the game in the way you'd also like to play it.

 

The time that goes into finding a group to play with can be equally prohibitive as setting up such a group if you have a job and kids. Especially since it can all fall apart real quick, if one or two people move house then it can all fall apart completely and you're back to square one. I'm lucky in that I have a group I play at home with but I'm also realistic it can be over tomorrow, we have 4 people gaming, one or two leaving and it's mostly dead in the water. I'm not sure I'd go back to store gaming and I don't know wether I'd have the energy to build another group up. I can very well understand Captain Idaho's problem. The old edition groups exist but they can be so difficult to find that from a practical point of view they might aswell not exist. 

 

 

[sarabando]

my buddy just got into the hobby, he has loads of minis he had as a kid but never played. His mates play 10th he hates it, he played one game of 3rd and loved it. So now im building a 3rd ed DE army. 

[LameBeard]

The great thing about old editions is you can often find the codex cheap on eBay or sometimes get lucky in a charity shop around here - although sometimes it can be tricky working out which  codex goes with which edition. Imagine introducing your friends to the joy of choosing upgrades for your units and paying points to do so!? Half the fun of Warhammer is writing the army list.

 

Of course if you go too far back in time it gets expensive. I wish I could justify the cost of the 3rd edition fantasy “Warhammer Armies” book - all the factions in one book, and still more options than most codices these days.

 

Now @Pacific81 can come remind us of the thriving scene of dead epic editions - if I remember rightly people run actual events - you don’t even need the local friend group sometime.

[Cadmus Tyro]

Having seen 3.0, like many of you, I’m not interested in learning what is essentially a new game system which invalidates all of my 30k armies. 30k has been a refuge from edition changes for some time now, it’s a shame that this has come to end. 
 

Im fortunate as I have a couple of friends I regularly game with who have a similar mindset and have played through 1.0 and 2.0. 
 

The dilemma I have is whether to go back to 1.0 or stick with 2.0. There were elements of both that we enjoyed, but 2.0 has never really felt like a finished product given the lack of FAQ support. Like most edition changes 2.0 broke as much as it fixed. My regular gaming friend and I had to develop a PDF to balance issues (mainly limiting reactions, curbing dreadnoughts and boosting blast weapons). Reactions also add to the mental load of the game, no longer can I sit back, relax and assess my next move in my opponents turn, I have to consider my immediate response to it.
 

In 1.0, we never felt the need to produce our own FAQ, the edition had its problems but the diversity of list building meant there were often counters. Medusas ruining your day? Take a couple of deredeo dreadnoughts with boreas missiles. 
 

I wonder if the simple answer is to port some rules back to 1.0, dreadnoughts being monstrous creatures for example. Porting rules will have to occur for any new releases if we’re going to use 1.0 (and oddly some weapon choices for SA tanks have changed as well). Either way we are having to use something that we have created in order to play a previous edition. 
 

Anyway, I hope you are all able to navigate your way through the mess of 3.0. 

Cadmus 

Edited Tuesday at 09:13 AM by Cadmus Tyro

[Captain Idaho]

I have serious new hopes that I can get wangle something, because my gaming group was talking about BFG and then young newbie (he's 25 whilst we're 40s, curse his hairline) stated we should do a campaign of space, full scale epic (Legions Imperialis) followed by 28mm.

 

If I play this right with BFG Heresy rules (the downloads I got are community accepted as awesome), then maybe, just maybe...