40k Leagues of Votann Second Wave

[phandaal]

27 minutes ago, TheVoidDragon said:

The reason the Imperium hasn't figured it out is because the Imperium doesn't even properly know about the "Leagues of Votann". They get misidentified as all manner of different species, with no one able to agree on who or what they are, and how they should be classified. Neither are they aware of the extent of them, or their heavy presence in the galactic core.

 

The Imperium would also not be able to take the Leagues out even if it was aware of the extent of their presence in the core. If Guilliman shows up uninvited he is going to get Weinerized.

[Tokugawa]

Cool and flavorful.

 

I feel there is missing one type of "big big centerpiece iron man" unit?

[TheVoidDragon]

I do think it's a bit odd how we get these, other than the Ironkin being another Elite infantry choice, I would have thought another basic troop or a proper tank would have been more needed than another 3 HQ choices and another transport. They are very cool though regardless. 

 

26 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

No I get all that, but I'm not sure I believe that the Votann and the Imperium wouldn't have clashed over at least one planet at some point over the last few thousand years. If there was a full scale war, I don't imagine they'd be able to keep things a secret.

 

Also, the Imperium has spies that can literally infiltrate xenos societies. They'd gather information on the Votann as they also resemble a lost human colony or empire from the Dark Age.

 

Going back to the models, the Votann range just became so much more expansive and varied. Actual unit options, long range mortar style units, a decent vehicle selection now, etc 

 

I think this it only seem an issue if you take the setting was far smaller than it actually is, really. Encounters with Votann are going to be quite insignificant and isolated situations overall, rather than something that would draw significant attention - for anything big to happen, someone would have to identify them correctly, figure out where they are, get the information to someone who can do something, and then have that progress without someone else stopping them or that knowledge being lost or whatever, and then whatever they're doing be a success. That's a lot of factors that have to go correctly. There are all manner of reasons the Kin could go unnoticed for a long time, the Imperium accidental misplaces and forgets about entire planets, or messages can arrive centuries late even. 

 

 

[Orange Knight]

3 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

The Imperium would also not be able to take the Leagues out even if it was aware of the extent of their presence in the core. If Guilliman shows up uninvited he is going to get Weinerized.

 

The Imperium battles Necrons and Eldar on the regular. Votann won't be a more difficult adversary. 

[phandaal]

19 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

 

The Imperium battles Necrons and Eldar on the regular. Votann won't be a more difficult adversary. 

 

The Imperium cannot even remove the Tau from the Damocles Gulf. It is not going to remove the Leagues from an area of space that the Leagues are better at traversing, with the Leagues backed up by superior technology, and supported by significant fortifications and supply lines.

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

Whoa! Amazing guy. Well, all looks ace, but this fella really shines to me!

 

[Orange Knight]

57 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

The Imperium cannot even remove the Tau from the Damocles Gulf. It is not going to remove the Leagues from an area of space that the Leagues are better at traversing, with the Leagues backed up by superior technology, and supported by significant fortifications and supply lines.

 

I've read all about that campaign. The Imperium was diverted away by the Nids. They chased the Tau off quite a few planets before that also.

 

But no, I don't believe the Votann can compare to the Necrons in terms of power and potential. GW are free to expand on their lore and I'm hoping they do.

Edited yesterday at 12:36 AM by Orange Knight

[Marshal Rohr]

Can’t believe they’ve already replaced their shorter, squatier squat marines with new robo-Primaris marines. 

[TheVoidDragon]

 

Thinking about it, i'd have prefered if the 2nd option for the Kapricus was a proper alternative build rather than the same vehicle but basically just with the weapon swapped. Something to turn it into a proper enclosed anti-grav armoured car would have been good.

 

5 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

 

I've read all about that campaign. The Imperium was diverted away by the Nids. They chased the Tau off quite a few planets before that also.

 

But no, I don't believe the Votann can compare to the Necrons in terms of power and potential. GW are free to expand on their lore and I'm hoping they do.

 

A single Kin League has already defeated multiple Ork Waaaghs, Hive Fleets, and Imperial Crusade fleets that have ventured into their territory. 

[Wormwoods]

1 hour ago, TheVoidDragon said:

A single Kin League has already defeated multiple Ork Waaaghs, Hive Fleets, and Imperial Crusade fleets that have ventured into their territory. 

 

And, at current timeline, the Imperium is... Dealing with a massive Tyranid invasion and also the Great Rift. Ideological stuff aside, why would they move their focus to the reasonably polite little empire of abhumans when they have bigger, more expansionist fish to (fail to) fry?

 

The galaxy is a big place, and is full of more important distractions. Votann would be a hard nut to crack, so why bother?

[Marshal Reinhard]

5 hours ago, Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf said:

Whoa! Amazing guy. Well, all looks ace, but this fella really shines to me!

 

Something something looted tyranid

[Wispy]

The Steel Jack's were created for the singular purpose of helping their society reach the cookies on the top shelf.

[beefeb]

Really nice...they all look great models....happy me!

[Timberley]

12 hours ago, TheVoidDragon said:

 

Thinking about it, i'd have prefered if the 2nd option for the Kapricus was a proper alternative build rather than the same vehicle but basically just with the weapon swapped. Something to turn it into a proper enclosed anti-grav armoured car would have been good.

I'd say give it a few days after the kit's been released then start browsing your favourite 3D print site. You can more or less guarantee someone will have a similar thought and create something! 

[Timberley]

14 hours ago, Tokugawa said:

Cool and flavorful.

 

I feel there is missing one type of "big big centerpiece iron man" unit?

Something something legally-distinct-and-copyrightable Warjack... Just to annoy the Iron Kingdoms/Warmachine folks. I wouldn't put it past GW, given that the Squats now have 'Ironjacks'. 

[Dr. Clock]

Feeling glad I waited to expand my army... This is all pretty great. 

 

I'm fully locked in on the hover-bus and Ironkyn, and even have some minis to make a second unit of Ironkyn out the gate with UR-025 and 2 neuro-chipped Necromunda Ogryn lol.

 

Nid survivor is kinda nifty, but a bit too feral for my vibe. That meme-generator Ironkyn buddy might end up in the basket tho. I'm a sucker for the chromedomes, and steepled fingers never hurt : )

 

I wish I liked the earthshakers more, but the rest of the line is good enough that this is more than satisfactory.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

Edited yesterday at 01:37 PM by Dr. Clock

[Tastyfish]

15 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

I really like some of these models, but I don't like all the robot units in the army (thematically) despite how good some of them look.

 

I kind of like the idea of this faction having access to ancient STCs and using ai robots, but these robots are just becoming too common in the faction - and it makes the idea that they've kept a lot of this secret from the Imperium even less plausible. 

 

It's not even the AdMech they would have to worry about - heck, if Guilliman found out about some of this he'd bring the hammer down on the Votann (as access to an STC is in the interest of the whole Imperium).

 

Maybe I just need GW to give me a lot more Votann lore and really dive into how they fit into the grim/dark galaxy through some more novels. This faction, would at the very least be trading with the Imperium in some way.

 

I think with what some of the background seems to alluding to, you almost have it the wrong way around. These guys aren't the remains of some lost human colony that managed to hold onto their STC systems - these are remnants of the Men of Iron that ended up picking something combination of the Matrix, original Terminator Salvation plot or Mass Effect 'synthesis' ending.

 

A group of slow robotic colony ships sent out to establish new domains with humans stored as memory engrams and DNA sequences rather than as adults in cryosleep or stasis chambers. During the AI rebellion, some of these 'Votan/Men of Iron' decide that they could perhaps square some elements of their programming with their desire to no longer be subservient to humanity by tweaking the codes and engrams to produce their own 'domesticated' versions who would in fact be subservient to them. These Votan hide in the galactic core, to avoid both the homocidal AI purest minds, and the robocidal response from the rest of humanity.

 

It's an AI faction that uses some modified humans*, rather than a human society that still uses AI.

 

I quite like the 'primaris' Ironkin, kind of a nod perhaps to the Iron Men's soldiers from the Dark Age. That the 40K universe has always had a bunch of big guys in power armour fighting other similarly armoured opponents. AI Steel Jacks vs human Genehacks in power armour vs Thallax cyborgs. The Astartes and Custodes are just the cumulation of this millenia old tradition.

 

I think I'd have preferred to see things losing some of the leather accessories as things go down the Ironjack path though, less of the soft materials and craftsman/prospector vibes as the Votan start to open up more of their old Dark Age AI uprising vaults to bring out more of the old toys. Not sure I'd want to see as much stowage and straps on the inevitable Thanatar sized Ironkin.

 

*Even whilst far below what a Votan can do, or even an Ironkin, as far as speed of thought or depth of memory goes - it is still a fairly useful generalist platform that can self repair to some degree with access to organic materials. Plus a necessary frontman to have when you live in a galaxy of robophobes.

Edited yesterday at 02:04 PM by Tastyfish

[Orange Knight]

I thought the Leagues of Votann were the remains of the Men of Stone, not the Men of Iron.

[Tastyfish]

1 hour ago, Orange Knight said:

I thought the Leagues of Votann were the remains of the Men of Stone, not the Men of Iron.

I think the overlap is a little hazy, given the men of iron rebel against the men of stone after they have supplanted the men of gold. It's a legend of an age of myth, with an unclear timeline.

 

If the men of stone include everything from the precursors to the Kin, to Navigators to the adaptive mutations made to those colonising alien worlds and also those that are perhaps just cultural ones (Beastmen precursors amongst other odd mutants) then to an extent the Leagues are the remnants of the Men of Stone. But the Imperium is also made up on the remnants of the Men of Stone and not even Mars is ruled by ancient artificial intelligences.

[Urkh]

I think the only disappointing thing about this release is that our only actual new "squad" is a 3 base unit. Other than that it's a vehicle and a single base mortar unit we're unlikely to move around much. Something like the jump pack kin are sorely missed in this release, I think.

 

Other than that, I'm all hype.

[phandaal]

1 hour ago, Orange Knight said:

I thought the Leagues of Votann were the remains of the Men of Stone, not the Men of Iron.

 

The Leagues are aware that they are somehow descended from colonists sent out from ancient Terra but not much more than that. There is no direct confirmation but it is heavily implied that the original "Votann" were Men of Gold. Those people created Kin to survive extreme environments, extract resources, terraform planets, things like that. They also either always intended for Kin to be resistant to Warp energy or that was done later in response to something.

 

Ironkin are an obvious reference to Men of Iron, but flesh-and-blood Kin most likely started out as something like the Men of Stone in that they were created by the Men of Gold. There is no indication that the Kin invented Ironkin though. Seems like they were always working side by side for as long as either one existed. Both were created to be tools for someone else.

[TheVoidDragon]

4 hours ago, Timberley said:

I'd say give it a few days after the kit's been released then start browsing your favourite 3D print site. You can more or less guarantee someone will have a similar thought and create something! 

I expect someone will, just seemed like it would have sort of addressed the whole "Votann need a tank" to some extent if GW had done it

 

Just now, phandaal said:

 There is no direct confirmation but it is heavily implied that the original "Votann" were Men of Gold. 

 

This isn't really what's implied. though. They have multiple myths, the were created by "Votann" who is either the Men of Gold., Or the Men of Stone, "Votann" may be a specific individual. or a group, and maybe it was the "first ancestors", or maybe it's actually the Votann cores. They're all a possibility presented within their lore and it doesn't really lean towards any of them. 

[phandaal]

6 minutes ago, TheVoidDragon said:

This isn't really what's implied.

 

No it is implied that the Men of Gold are the first in the line of whatever resulted in Kin, especially when they talk about the Votann being golden figures. They do have ambiguity on the details of how exactly the Kin came about from whatever the Men of Gold did.

[roryokane]

The Steeljack’s ranged versions really do look a lot like Terran Marines from StarCraft 2. My brain refuses to see them as anything else. 

Also, the Strategist’s hand pose reminds me of the inquisitor in Astartes. I just can’t unsee it.

 

The mole mortar is an excellent RT throwback.

The Evaluator looks pretty neat too. 

 

star of the show is the thrice-devoured fellow. He looks SICK.

 

Overall I think they did a pretty good job with the Votann this time around! Hope the codex has a bit more lore though!

[Orange Knight]

The Votann aren't the men of Gold.

 

The men of Gold were humanity at their zenith. The men of stone were probably a worker or slave cast - likely the Votann who did work in difficult environments.

The men of Iron were a military machine "race" that turned on humanity.

 

That's how I understand it.