Winsor & Newton Series 7 lol

[Helias_Tancred]

And that is what I think of Winsor & Newton Series 7 brushes!

 

 I recently picked up a Vallejo synthetic brush, a Size 0 Precision, several weeks after getting the W&N, and its performed better. lol. Certainly keeps a point better.  Very disappointed about my dalliance with W&N Series 7s. I expected better for the price. A lot better.  I believe the rumor is correct, they make GW's brushes because the tip and brush behaved just like a GW Layer brush. 

 

 

 

Edited Monday at 06:41 PM by Helias_Tancred

[Firedrake Cordova]

Well that sucks.  The ones I had (years ago) were good.

 

1 hour ago, Helias_Tancred said:

 I believe the rumor is correct, they make GW's brushes because the tip and brush behaved just like a GW Layer brush. 

According to Tom Hibberd (former GW product person), it's the Artificer line that W&N make, with the others being made by Crown Artist.

[Dr. Clock]

Brutal - sorry to hear. Hope you don't let it cramp your painting momentum!

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[Helias_Tancred]

6 hours ago, Firedrake Cordova said:

Well that sucks.  The ones I had (years ago) were good.

 

According to Tom Hibberd (former GW product person), it's the Artificer line that W&N make, with the others being made by Crown Artist.

 

Ahhh okay. I remember when the artificer line first came out, I remember a couple guys saying it's an opportunity to get a Series 7 for a lot less. That was 2015? lol last I checked a GW artificer brush was $22 USD the other day when I stopped by my local GW store. I think that Series 7 I snapped was $24 USD? So very close now.

 

[Xenith]

Series 7s had been a workhorse of mine for years, however I think recently, they have gone downhill - the last 2 I've had havent lasted as long - however as my partner pointed out I'm also painting a lot more which will contribute. I've found myself actually using synthetics, the GW STC M base and layer have been great for me, easy to clean, keep a point and cheap enough to not be sad if they get wrecked. 

[Firedrake Cordova]

1 hour ago, Xenith said:

I think recently, they have gone downhill

I've seen a couple of brush manufacturers (not W&N) say that the quality of the sable they can source has decreased recently (last decade or two). Part of the issue cited is that it's not getting as cold in Siberia, which has resulted in undesirable changes in the nature of the hair produced. I'm not sure if that's the case here (as larger manufacturers tend to get first pick, and may also have a stockpile), but thought it worth mentioning as a possibility.

[Helias_Tancred]

Army Painter Wargamer brushes have been my mainstay over the past several years. Cheap enough to replace once or twice a year. But I'm slowly looking around for better options. Their QC has suffered lately from what I've experienced. I'll have a character brush that is excellent, but when it's time to replace it the next character brush is sorta crap and doesn't even feel like the same type of brush I replaced? lol. 

 

Along the same price and quality level are the Vallejo brushes. I like the Vallejo Precision synthetic I've been using, but I'm really curious on the Pro Modeler sable brushes?  A good friend of mine swears by the Monument Hobbies brushes, and some others love the daVinci brushes out of Germany? anyone have experience with these?

 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 01:31 AM by Helias_Tancred

[crimsondave]

Wow.  That’s all have used for years and I hate GW brushes and AP brushes.  Maybe it’s true the quality of Sable has gone down hill.

[Volgon]

I've been using a Monument Hobbies Pro Sable #1 for details on my last few minis and it's done great. Holds the point fantastically well. Another USA option is Rosemary and Co #33's sold by Michigan Toy Soldier Co. Normally hard to find unless you import but MTSC rebrands them under their label. I have a #2 from them but haven't used it yet. Both options review well and are around half the price of a W&N Series 7.

[Khulu]

I LOVE Monument Hobbies Sable brushes and use them all the time. I use them for everything but metallics these days. 

[Urauloth]

It's true that the quality of sable is trending downwards, but so is the quality of W&N brushes in general. They moved their factory a few years ago, and their quality (or at least their quality control) took a hit it's never recovered from. I suspect the classic trick of cheapening the product and continuing to sell it at the same price once it's established a reputation as a market leader, investment groups love this because it delivers "growth" in the short term despite the obvious consequence of annoying customers and detroying the brand reputation.

[Firedrake Cordova]

1 hour ago, Urauloth said:

They moved their factory a few years ago

Was that the Wealdstone or Lowestoft factory? My understanding is that the Wealdstone factory moved to France, but that all Series 7s were assembled in Lowestoft.

[LameBeard]

Surely sable from Siberia is subject to sanctions in large parts of the world? Or am I being hopelessly naïve? 

[WBRBloom]

16 hours ago, LameBeard said:

Surely sable from Siberia is subject to sanctions in large parts of the world? Or am I being hopelessly naïve? 

 

@LameBeard, you might be right, I thought of that as well. The war would have affected this aspect of our hobby, given the fact that true kolinsky sable hair only comes from Siberia and Manchuria. 

 

With a quick look on the interwebs, it says that although the war does not seem to have affected the trade for it, the regulations of ethically sourcing the raw material plays a vital role.

 

Maybe the recent years' boom in the hobby simply made the kolinsky hair not as readily available as it used to be, leading companies purchasing the raw material from sub-par sources? But that's just me spit balling and theorising now..

[LameBeard]

So 2 minutes of internet research suggests that UK/EU sanctions are focused on Russian individuals and strategic sectors (military, energy etc) and is not a blanket ban on trade with Russia. Still a bit of a PR risk for these companies having a Russian section of the supply chain, but looks like I was naive.

 

I think @WBRBloom has it right - increase in demand and supply chain issues since Covid probably push manufacturers into making compromises on sable quality, it may also have acted as a spur to improve the quality of synthetic brushes.

[Firedrake Cordova]

The geo-political concerns relating to the region kolinsky sable comes from are outside the forum's remit, so we don't want to go any further down that road