[Final] GW Annual Financial Report 2025 (SM II Bump, Tariffs, 40k License, Model PREfresh)

[ZeroWolf]

1 hour ago, Focslain said:

 

So about that, much like other streaming services you have access to the animations as long as you have access to the service via your subscription. It does take up space and bandwidth on their servers plus depending on if the people on the team get residuals or not is another cost.

 

Though with them being so small I doubt GW did a residual payment in the studio contracts. It was most likely a one and done deal.

 

Now if they so decide, they can just remove the animations from their service for whatever reason and then it's gone.

 

That being one the major points of physical vs digital media. Physical media lasts fro as long as the storage device it's on lasts. Digital media can disappear with a flick of a switch.

 

Warner Bros got huge amounts of flak for this exact thing from the Infinity Train fandom when they didn't release a physical media version of the show and just removed it from their services. (Not sure if this has been fixed at time of writing)

 

Netflix and Disney are near guilty of this as several of their original programming haven't had a physical release (yet) even with a market for them. (Release a CD of the Visions OST you cowards!)

 

Honestly I like to see GW do even a limited run of physical copies of their Hammer and Bolter series or any of the other multi-episodic series they have done. Much like the ancient Inquisitor tapes that they sold at the early Games Days. 

I know its off topic, but Inquisitor tapes?

[Focslain]

59 minutes ago, ZeroWolf said:

I know its off topic, but Inquisitor tapes?

 

So back in the mid 90s there was a series of live action shorts fans did and GW endorsed. We're talking Final Liberation quality cut scene kind of stuff. 

It was a few Space Hulk inspired bits iirc. Been a long time since I seen them. But GW did sell offical versions of it at Games Day. If my copy is somewhere in my current home I'll have to find it, but I believe I gifted it to a friend over a decade ago. 

Ok found it on YT here. Thing was made in 1996.

Edited August 11 by Focslain

[Evil Eye]

Digital-only media being lost forever when servers are deactivated or the license expires is definitely a big problem. Netflix are IMO some of the worst offenders, mainly due to having exclusive rights to a wide variety of content that, should they delist it, becomes unavailable (legally) to watch. This is particularly bad with foreign programmes and movies; as just one example, Little Witch Academia's non-Japanese license is held by them and at present there is no English-language physical release of the show, meaning those who want to enjoy Akko and chums' silly adventures but aren't willing to shell out a Netflix subscription for one show are forced to either hoist the Jolly Roger, or import the very pricey* Japanese release and learn to speak Japanese, as to the best of my knowledge there are no subtitles included in that release.

 

Now I can't speak for the quality of Warhammer Plus's animated output overall, as I've not seen very much of it (though the bit from Angels of Death with the Dreadnought was very well done) but it would still be a shame for the content to be rendered unwatchable should the service cease operations.

 

*Notably, the Japanese market is quite different to the West in that DVD/Blu-Rays of anime especially are rather expensive, in part due to the astronomical cost of animation and also because video rental is still a big thing over there. The vast majority of sales of physical media are to rental stores, who will of course order more if the anime is particularly popular; only real superfans will pony up the cash to actually buy a series in physical form.

[Nephaston]

On 8/1/2025 at 2:48 PM, N1SB said:

Actually, anyone still playing Total War:hammer III or Space Marine II, pls share your thoughts.

 

What I noticed was Helldivers II was really popular, then suddenly disappeared.  Dunno what's up.

Oh I'm super late to this.

I'm basically just gonna add some SteamCharts numbers to quantify just how successful some of the games are.

 

Let's start with the big surprise hit of 2024; Helldivers 2 has lost more than 90% of it's players since launch. Usually that would be a death sentence for most games if not for the insane numbers the actually pulled, thus keeping them very comfortable in a 5-digit playercount.

Paired with their monetization system of somewhat frequent warbonds (formerly monthly, now every second or third?) costing 10 bucks each (or available for free since you can grind the premium currency by playing the game, a behaviour encouraged and acknowledged by the developers) as well as some rotating cosmetics for varied prices, we have a game that seriously overperforms even just on Steam/PC alone. 

34th place at the time of writing (it can fluctuate quite a bit, and currently it's at early morning for EU and night for the US) and sharing the page with Elden Ring: Nightreign, Palworld, and the freshest Gachaslop scam Uwamusume; Pretty Derby.

 

 

Total War: Warhammer 3 "only" lost 85% of its players, which would not be a great sign, but similar to HD2 had a pretty good start with a 1666k peak that also settled into a comfortable 5-digit player count.

The DLC approach for this was already mentioned and it shakes out to around 10 bucks per legendary hero for WH3, but also includes DLC for the Prequels and the Prequels themselves since they amalgamate into a form of supergame. Don't know if Sega accounts for that, but the latter parts of a series incentivising the purchase of any previous parts to that degree is pretty unusual across the gaming landscape.

63th place at the time of writing puts it on the same page as Ark: Survival Evolved, Rocket League, and the special edition of The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim.

 

 

Now to Space Marine 2, which achieved a higher peak than Warhammer 3 but dipped off harder at 95%, still retains a 5-digit player count during peak hours but, dips to "mere" 4-digit player counts when not at peak. 

This is still a healthy amount of players, even before including Playstation and Xbox players. Pair this with a DLC monetization of 5 to 10 bucks per pack or 40 bucks for the first year season pass (saving you around 16 bucks, but also including an individually non-available champion cosmetic set that would be 8 bucks) and you'll have a game that can rake in some cash, and obviously beyond what was expected, seeing as both a Sequel and a full second year of support was announced with new enemies, new weapons, a new Class, a new PvP-mode, and of course a new swathe of cosmetic DLC. I would also refer to the SM2 thread doomed to languish in +OTHER GAMES+ away from the light of News or Amicus, where I tend to repost/link the big Update posts when I remember it.

Anyway, back to actual numbers; As of writing SM2 is at 128 in SteamCharts, putting it amongst peers such as Kindom Come: Deliverance 2, Deltarune, and everyones favourite, Deep Rock Galactic.

 

Actual qualities of the games, their devs, or their respective communities aside, Warhammer 3 and Space Marine 2 are the most successful games amongst Warhammer video games, with only the 'tides (Darktide and Vermintide 2) coming close with all time peaks of 107k and 106k players each. 

The next healthiest would be Rogue Trader peaking at 37k and, thanks to the recent DLC release now peaking at 7k, but never dipping below a peak of 4k

After this we have Warhammer 2 which still pull peaks of 2k players since they can play with WH3 players via Immortal Empires

Then Gladius at 1k though it has been recently "Free to Own" on steam allowing it to be added to their libraries for anyone that wanted it.

Dawn of War: Soulstorm also retains a 1k daily peak, kept alive by an impressive modding community.

 

Do keep in mind that player retention is a separate number to sales, and mostly relevant for online games, so games like Chaosgate and Boltgun, which are mostly focused on offline singleplayer, completely dropping off after everyone played it is entirely normal, so their peaks of 400 and 160 repsectively (so more than a 99% dropoff) are perfectly fine. On the other end we have poor Speed Freeks, which seeminlgy cannot muster more than 30 players at peak after a very acceptable 2k player peak.

[Viridia]

You brought hard figures to the gaming discussion and I love that

[Nephaston]

4 hours ago, Viridia said:

You brought hard figures to the gaming discussion and I love that

With online discussions about games it seems to frequently list into emotional perception or even the unironic regurgitation of ragebait media (i.e. "[Game] has LOST 99% of it's players), so it's a good idea to occasionally pull out the number crunching tools we do have access to.

[N1SB]

On 8/10/2025 at 1:47 AM, Scribe said:

No company can or will keep its backlog of product indefinietly, and yes as you outline with the Kill Team stuff, and in Warcry and Underworlds or whatever that other game is, THOSE 'teams' have been on rotation for some time now.

 

This is a change to some of us old timers, who would justify the eye watering prices by saying 'yeah but they last forever and you can play forever'.

 

So regarding PREfreshes, I think you're right, and specifically that Warhammer: Underworlds might well have been where GW started with the practice.  If you ever played Warhammer: Underworlds, it's really weird, like they're trying to do hex-based games like BattleTech and collectible card games like Magic: the Gathering and a skirmish Warhammer game, but all AT THE SAME TIME.  It was very experimental and I reckon they figured it may be cancelled, like Shadow War: Armageddon and my beloved Aeronautica Imperialis was, or whatever.

 

And with GW's 3-year product cycles now, even their flagship games do have a planned obsolescence of 3 years, obviously.

 

But I also agree with you where old, out-of-print models going into Legends is 1 thing, but new minis with a ticking time bomb...man.

 

On 8/11/2025 at 2:53 PM, Dark Shepherd said:

"Like a new child is born, and his death is predetermined at birth.  Doesn't matter if it lives a healthy life, it will die on a set date"

 

@N1SB confirmed as a member of the Accountancy Korps of Krieg :)

 

Great point.  Everything has the life expectancy of a Krieg Korpsman might actually be the way to think of our minis now.  Scary stuff.

 

On 8/11/2025 at 4:22 PM, Joe said:

 

Strictly speaking, it's a reality across the wider sector where they deal with hand-sculpted masters being pressed into silicon moulds for production in resin or metal - not everything lasts forever (or in some cases survives the original press), and most companies have an average expectation for how much they can get out of a mould before it has to be replaced or just outright retired, never to return.

 

It's a bit different with digitally designed plastics that can be re-cut into a new mould using the files.

 

I thought as you did, so I consulted with my friend Timperial Guard, who worked at a Warhammer Store AND also in plastic injection moulding.

 

It really, truly USED to be, for Veterans of the Long War like Joe and a lot of us, our old 1st ed lead miniatures were using silicon (and Timperial Guard mentioned, "vulcanised rubber") moulds.  They're not permanent moulds.  The 1st miniatures they make will look like how Jes Goodwin sculpted them.  A few thousand minis later, those moulds lose their shape, and the minis would not look the same, and at some point GW will discard them.  They figure by that time, Jes Goodwin will have sculpted a newer, better version of basically the same model, to replace it.

 

Once they throw out that old mould, that mini is discontinued.  Remember GW was nowhere as big as it is now, literally like 100x bigger now.

 

Turns out that's not the case now.  For consistent quality reasons, so that the 1000th or 10,000th mini would still have the same detail as the 1st, they use plastic mould injection machinery with like diecast steel moulds.  They last effectively forever, even if their intention is not to permanently churn out a specific mini, but to keep the quality of detailed sculpts.  Incidentally, those moulds also cost a lot more, like in the range of $/£100,000s, is the industrial standard, so Timperial Guard tells me (he's not great at money, tho).

 

But that point is well-taken.  It shows GW has ALWAYS thought of limited runs on minis, that's how it was in the beginning.  It's a fair point.

 

PREfreshes are not a bad thing, your favourite mini WILL cross the Primaris Rubicon OR True Scale'd or updated.  What could go wrong?

 

 

Oh.  Welp.  Nvm.  I kid, I kid!  But yeah, no.

[N1SB]

Thx for that above, Brother Nephaston.  I was playing with the side-by-side comparison feature:

 

Total War: Three Kingdoms is the green line, Total War: Warhammer III the blue

 

We know from Sega's leaked figures Total War: 3 Kingdoms sold more than Total War: Warhammer 3 (around 3 mil vs. 2 mil altogether), but the former had a huge sales spike then drop-off, while the latter is still chugging along.  These are NOT sales figures up here on Steam Charts...but the spikes could correspond to the Sudden Yet Inevitable Steam Sales happening all the time.  There's just this endurance to Total War:hammer III.

 

But apparently not so with Space Marine II.  Maybe Helldivers 2 is the wrong comparison, but apples, orangutans:

 

Helldivers 2 is the green line, Space Marine II the blue line, because Ultramarines

 

Look at that, here Helldivers reminds me of the endurance of a Total War:hammer III.  I think people really just mostly played Space Marine II as a single-player story game.  Like Super Mario Bros were technically multi-player games, but not really, not like Double Dragon was.

 

When I was working in Big Tech and had a slight relationship with both Gears of War 2 or 3 and Mass Effect 2 or 3, I happened to have just volunteered (tbh, I party-crashed) my colleagues' event where they showed both games side-by-side.  These were big AAA titles, sci-fi, 3rd person shooters, Unreal engine...people thought they were the same game, just different stages.  Some were even hardcore gamers.  OF COURSE it sounds ridiculous, GoW had Cliffy B the action game developer behind it who's all action all the time (like reloading became a mini-game), ME was the great RPG studio Bioware with all those romantic relationships, lore, story, etc.

 

But I remember looking at it from a casual gamer walking by our exhibition booth, Gears of War and Mass Effect...really looked like the same game, the latter just has more implied sex.  All this is to say I'm not even sure what to compare Space Marine II with anymore.

 

(Fun non-Warhammer fact - I just looked up Fallout 4 and Fallout 76.  EXCEPT for the latter's launch, Fallout 4, the single-player game, has always had more players than Fallout 76.  In case you're wondering the impact of the Fallout AMAZON series, it spiked about 6x to 7.5x times their normal volume when that launched.  Warhammer's not Fallout, but that's an interesting estimate to keep in mind.)

[Nephaston]

14 hours ago, N1SB said:

But apparently not so with Space Marine II.  Maybe Helldivers 2 is the wrong comparison, but apples, orangutans:

 

Helldivers 2 is the green line, Space Marine II the blue line, because Ultramarines

 

Look at that, here Helldivers reminds me of the endurance of a Total War:hammer III.  I think people really just mostly played Space Marine II as a single-player story game.  Like Super Mario Bros were technically multi-player games, but not really, not like Double Dragon was.

That is the benefit of being a singular vision with full blown and active live-service campaign thingamajig, those big bumps should roughly correspond with big events like blwoing up meridia, the re-appearance of the Illuminate, and the battle for super earth.

 

For a more apples to pears comparison I'd say Fallout 76 and Path of Exile 2 are servicable, even though their peaks are vastly different.

Actual quality and communities aside I'd argue all of these are healthy games.

 

And, hilariously, both games are vastly different in how they exist. Fallout 76 is the eldest, but never really took off outside of that bit when the show aired (at least I think that's that little bump) Path of Exile 2 is the sequel of a comparatively recent and, at that point, still a very active known Diablo competitor, and hit the scene after Diablo 4 left a lot of people hungry, thus making a big splash. And while SM2 lands somewhere in the middle beteen these two they are now roughly equal.

 

I expect September will end up a big bump in numbers when the 1 year anniversary update hits. (And lobbies will be full of people fighting about who gets to play the techmarine)

Edited August 15 by Nephaston