The Iron-clads: Dreadnought Duelists in HH 3.0

[N1SB]

Challenges have become a mini-game in HH 3.0, an epic duel between 2 characters, even Primarchs...and in 3 cases, even Dreadnoughts.

 

I don't know how it'll turn out, in fact, until dice hit the table, I don't think any of us can say for sure, but wanted to plan for list-building.

 

 

+++ Option 1: The Iron-clad: Iron Hands "Prime Advantage" +++

 

Dreadnoughts, classified as "War Engines", are harder to access in HH 3.0.  Iron Hands have a "Prime Advantage" to give them a bonus slot.

 

A Dreadnought that occupies this bonus slot also happens to get the Champion Sub-Type, allowing them to make/take Challenges.

 

You can take a Contemptor, Leviathan, the new Saturnine or, coming in the HH 3.0 Legacies PDF, the Castra Ferrum (Box) Dreadnought.

 

Of these, I currently think (but reserve the right to change my mind and realise I'm an idiot) the Leviathan is the go-to for such purposes.  The Saturnine has higher survivability, but only has 2 melee attacks I believe.  The Contemptor and Leviathan have 4, and the latter is a tougher nut to crack and has Siege Claws, which when paired give +1 Attack.

 

Pros - it's a Leviathan Dreadnought with Siege Claws.  Cons - Dreads only have a Weapon Skill of 4.

 

I think of the boxing coach and commentator, Teddy Atlas, who used to train "Iron" Mike Tyson.  He uses this term, the "eraser", for power punches.  It's not so much that those fists will erase their opponents from existence, but that they erase all previous mistakes.  Like a person could be out-boxed by a finesse fighter for all the rounds, then BAM 1 lucky punch negates all that by a knockout.  Often others called it a "puncher's chance".  That's kinda how I see a Leviathan with Siege Claws.

 

I think any non-Primarch character will have trouble with a Leviathan as a dance partner.  Its points-cost is in the same weight class as Corswain, Sigismund, Lucius Pre-Eternal, Sevatar, etc.  It's something I want to do simply because someone has to do this, I mean c'mon...but that doesn't mean I even think it's at all a good idea.

 

No idea which "Gambits" to use, should I have a Transport for this Leviathan Dread like a Tyson Fury walkout, any thoughts?

 

 

+++ Option 2: Cassian Draco, the Salamanders Dreadnought +++

 

The Salamanders have a named character, Cassian Dracos, the old Terran commander of the XVIIIth before Vulkan.

 

He'll be coming in the HH 3.0 Legacies/Legends PDF.  He was just a Boxnaught I think, but worth watching out for.

 

 

+++ Option 3: Rylanor the Unyielding, the (Loyalist) Emperor's Children Dreadnought +++

 

Thanks to Brother Kraskor below who reminded me of Rylanor the Unyielding, Loyalist EC at Istvan III.

 

He's a Contemptor and will also be in the HH 3.0 Legacies PDF.  EC being EC, probably a great Duelist.

 

 

+++++

 

So as I said, this is probably such a bad idea that I got to do it.  But please do tell me every pit I'll fall into in advance.

Edited July 29 by N1SB

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I've been thinking about the Ironclad Advantage too.  Even if you don't ever plan to actually use the Champion sub-type to fight a challenge, taking that Prime Advantage adds a free War Engine slot to that detachment.  If anything it's a way to pull in a Dreadnought without needing to take the single-Dreadnought Detachment.

 

As for actually using the Champion ability to challenge. . . the Leviathan is the winner by size and stats, but I feel like the Contemptor fits better thematically.  This is supposed to be a fallen officer, and the lore on Leviathans -- correct me, of course, if this has changed -- is that they're a bit of a desperation option.  Not exactly something you'd normally stick a fallen hero into if you could avoid it.  The Contemptor also has more. . . . visible character, I suppose?  Like I can see one of those being all gussied up to honor the interred hero, whereas a Leviathan is just a big walking brick.

[N1SB]

It's true what you say, I was holding the old resin Leviathan, it's harder to make a meaningful pose.  Like the new (3 years-old, still new) Contemptor is really annoying to put together, but is very flexible, I was thinking of giving them Street Fighter poses.  The Leviathan can basically be Blanka or E Honda, because he's just so Bulky (7).

[Brother Kraskor]

Expect Rylanor will have the capability too, and maybe even WS5? Given he had WS6 before.

[N1SB]

23 hours ago, Brother Kraskor said:

Expect Rylanor will have the capability too, and maybe even WS5? Given he had WS6 before.

 

Brother Kraskor, good catch, truly Fulgrim was the best friend of Ferrus.  I completely forgot about him...hmmm.

 

I might go Emperor's Children instead of Iron Hands for this reason alone.  Wow.  Loyalist Emperor's Children.

 

I must amend my original post, thanks for this.

[Brother Kraskor]

1 hour ago, N1SB said:

 

Brother Kraskor, good catch, truly Fulgrim was the best friend of Ferrus.  I completely forgot about him...hmmm.

 

I might go Emperor's Children instead of Iron Hands for this reason alone.  Wow.  Loyalist Emperor's Children.

 

I must amend my original post, thanks for this.

I guess the beauty is you could feasibly do both. A small cadre of loyal EC, led by Rylanor, fighting for a larger force of the Iron Hands, out of a sense of heartache and guilt for the terrible wrong their primarch inflicted at Isstvan.

[N1SB]

Brother, you truly embody the aspect of Fulgrim where, in pursuit of perfection, you elevate others to their absolute best so you have a worthy matchup to test yourself.  I forgot how different army list building is this edition and am still stuck in the old frameworks.  Well, we'll double-check when the Legacies PDF drops, but this makes so much sense.

 

What you suggested solves so many other problems for me.  You know how in all our metas, it'll end up with some games of Loyalists vs. Loyalists, which is harder to narratively justify than Traitors vs. Traitors?  Loyalist Emperor's Children, with Loyalist Iron Hands standing up for them, justifies every battle.

[Brother Kraskor]

I've often thought about doing the reverse - a force of beaten-down, enslaved Iron Hands, sent in as the first wave for their cruel EC masters. I just can't face having to lug two Libers around! Wonder if I could just get a hold of the IH rules for a small auxiliary force if anyone would mind me not having the physical tome...!

[The Yak]

On 7/22/2025 at 8:57 PM, Iron Father Ferrum said:

I've been thinking about the Ironclad Advantage too.  Even if you don't ever plan to actually use the Champion sub-type to fight a challenge, taking that Prime Advantage adds a free War Engine slot to that detachment.  If anything it's a way to pull in a Dreadnought without needing to take the single-Dreadnought Detachment.

 

As for actually using the Champion ability to challenge. . . the Leviathan is the winner by size and stats, but I feel like the Contemptor fits better thematically.  This is supposed to be a fallen officer, and the lore on Leviathans -- correct me, of course, if this has changed -- is that they're a bit of a desperation option.  Not exactly something you'd normally stick a fallen hero into if you could avoid it.  The Contemptor also has more. . . . visible character, I suppose?  Like I can see one of those being all gussied up to honor the interred hero, whereas a Leviathan is just a big walking brick.

 

"Hey Iron Father Ferrum, who you calling a big walking brick?!?!"

 

Carab Culln former Chapter Master of the Red Scorpions (From the future...)