The Scouring (Series)

[Felix Antipodes]

Since we will be talking about this series for possibly years - and to stop clogging up the Upcoming topic - I decided to get ahead of the curve and start this topic.

 

To start, there has been plenty of entries claiming nothing happened during this period - “give me the Iron Cage and call it a day”, etc. I don’t believe this is true, especially if it covers the politics as well as the bolter porn, as claimed in the reveal.

In this era (the length of which is something else there are arguments about - does it end when officially declared by the High Lords, 021.M31, Guilliman’s wounding, or with disappearance of the last Primarch (Russ) in 211.M31)?

As for what could be covered?

• The rise of the High Lords from an advisory to a ruling body
• The formation of the Inquisition and how they got as powerful as they are
• The policy of using Heresy fencesitters or those who took advantage to declare independence as meatgrinder shock troops
• The reorganisation/sectioning of the Imperial Army
• The continuing rise of the Ecclesiarchy and the impact of their Militias on society in general
• The Codex Conflict, where the Primarchs almost came to a second civil war, leading to
• The Iron Cage, and
• The Second Founding

 

All this as the Primarchs lead the battles forcing the traitor legions back and into the Eye of Terror, before the disappear one by one.

 

Some of the events of the era have been covered elsewhere (fate of Curze in his Primarchs novel for example) and I hope they just get a footnote rather than a retelling but time will tell where GW/BL goes.

 

For those hoping for a brand-new supporting cast, I think you will be only half happy.  There will be eight Primarchs and nine Legions to cover, and that’s just on the loyalist side.  I also imagine they will start building up the importance of Lucretius Corvo, Ludon, Tulian Aquila, Saur Damocles, Arrias Cordos, Sasebo Tezuka, Eleon Iasis and Fulminos, just to name the future Chapter Masters we know of UM successors.  I’m looking for Easter egg appearances for future IF Chapter Masters such as Brownwin Abermort, Ambrosian Spactor and Kalman Flodensbog(!) to get a mention .  I would settle finding out why Fafnir Rann didn’t get a CN gig until the 3rd Founding.

 

[grailkeeper]

The fall of the Dark Angels.

 

Their story was the biggest thing we knew about the heresy before the book series, outside of the basic events. Theres a reason why they were the first story we got outside of the main story line. 

 

Dark Angels have a good case that they are the legion most let down by the Heresy books. 

 

Seeing the Blood Angels deal with the death of their primarch would be interesting. They're not the only legion to have a primarch die, but we already know a bit about how it effects them. The rage being caused by gene seed recovered from the blood of a corpse. I'd rather it not get a book of its own, but good chance it might. 


One thing generally I'd like is if the entire  series is covered in each book. I'd rather not have reading orders or branching out story lines like the heresy. You shouldnt need a flow chart to know how to read the books. 

[Karhedron]

Just focussing on the Astartes, many Legions/Chapters have significant storylines either in the Scouring or in the handful of centuries that followed.

• Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors: The Iron Cage. This also ends with a reconciliation between Dorn and Guilliman which effectively marks the acceptance of the Codex Astartes. Could also cover Perturabo's ascension.
• Ultramarines and Alpha Legion: The Eskrador campaign (which may or may not have happened). Could reveal the fate of Omegon although I feel this might be better left a mystery. 
• Dark Angels: Fall of Caliban (it would be good to have a bridge to Lion, Son of the Forest).
• Space Wolves: The disappearance of Russ. The new Codex has stated that Russ departed because he believed he was dying. There is also the older lore about his quest for the Tree of Life
• Blood Angels: The development of tainted geneseed based on blood from Sanguinius's corpse (although this may have been retconned into a primarily psychic phenomenon).
• White Scars: There is a big gap for them until Jagatai's disappearance in the Maelstrom
• Ultramarines and Emperor's Children: Fulgrim cutting Guilliman's throat (we might not need this one since it is covered as a flashback in Dark Imperium).
• Ravenguard: Corax's mission to the Eye (although this has been covered to some extent in "Shadows of the Past").
• Night Lords: We have already seen Kurze's fate in his Primarch novel, not sure there is much else written about them.
• Iron Hands: Not sure there is much written about them. There was old lore about a vision message from Ferrus but that is supposed to have happened just after Istvaan.
• World Eaters: The shattering of the Legion by Kharne at Skalathrax
• Death Guard: Not much written about how they arrived on the Plague Planet
• Thousand Sons: the Rubric and Ahriman's exile have been covered already in John French's Ahriman series.
• Sons of Horus: Pretty well covered in ADB's Black Legion series.
• Words Bearers: We have not seen Lorgar's ascension although we have seen his daemon form in "Shadows of the Past"
• Salamanders: Vulkan leaving his legion

Not all of these necessarily merit a book or even a story of its own. Some may simply be side-plots in other stories.

[Felix Antipodes]

Of those mentioned I feel that only the fall of Caliban and the Iron Cage will get their own books, although I would love the DA Crusade of Vengeance (Passage of Angels) to get a book of its own as well.  That would bring in Russ and Corax who joined the crusade after the Lion arrived at Deliverance.

 

It will be interesting to see where they slot the iron Cage in the timeline.  It was once considered to be earlyish (c 014.M31) where as the most recent take is a depressed and guilt ridden Dorn dons blackish armour and departs for crusade until the Codex Crisis (late 020-early 021.M31) sees him come back to confront Guilliman.  This leads to the Iron Cage, Perturabo’s ascension, and Dorn’s acceptance of the breakup.

 

Guilliman is reported to be everywhere during the Scouring, moving from front to front.  I can see a book concentrating on these many battles and their effect/strain on him and his legion.  Eskrador would probably fit into there.  I think it will turn out to be an “I am Alpharius” proxy rather than him or Omegron (whoever they decide wasn’t killed during the Heresy).  The Battle of Thessala (where he was wounded by Fulgrim) wasn’t until 121.M31 so would be a later book if covered at all.

 

The only White Scars storyline I recall from this era is the Hunt For Bile.  After seeing Bile’s handy work after the Siege ended, he decides to head off and bring Bile to justice.  Don’t recall if this was from a book or a codex.

 

I didn’t know they changed why Russ left in the latest codex.  Did they change his departure date as well (211.M31) or the First Great Hunt (218.M31) by Bjorn?

 

Something I’m intrigued by is how the Blood Angels are treated by the Primarchs.  For instance everything I’ve read about the Codex Crisis lists which Primarch was for or against the breaking but fails to mention where Raldoran and the BA stood, as if they didn’t matter.  The same for the Iron Hands.  How did the Imperium handle a Legion now run by a council instead of a figurehead?

 

[Karhedron]

36 minutes ago, Felix Antipodes said:

I didn’t know they changed why Russ left in the latest codex.  Did they change his departure date as well (211.M31) or the First Great Hunt (218.M31) by Bjorn?

 

I don't think that they have changed the dates. They haven't exactly changed it, just reconciled two existing bits of fluff. There was Russ's old death speech where he promises to return for the Wolf Time. Rather than those literally being his dying words, they are now the last words that he spoke to the Chapter before leaving the Fang. This implies that he believed he was dying before he set out on his quest but does not explain why. Logan and Ulrik are both over 600 years old and they are just Marines created from Russ's geneseed. The Primarchs were supposed to be immortal so it is not clear what Russ thought was going to kill him.

[Felix Antipodes]

Just read the relevant pages in the new codex (thanks again for the heads up).  GW’s policy of no more dates appears to still be in force so nothing changed there.  It will be interesting how the BL team interprets this - dying spiritually IMHO as they will want him able to return if they need a sales jump at a future date 

If/when he does come back I hope he comes back as a full-on werewolf 

[wecanhaveallthree]

Can I dare to dream that Arik Taranis could be a big player in a potential Scouring on the home front? Like as not, he simply won't be brought up again, but man, having the Lightning Bearer come out in the open and say 'hey, the Emperor lied about a whole bunch of things, the Primarchs have failed, the Astartes can't be trusted, but we're still unimpeachable and loyal' - that'd be cool. 

 

I'm really looking forward to checking in with Russ post-Wolfsbane. What a great book. What a shattering to his worldview. How can he look his brothers in the eye, knowing what he knows?

 

I hope we never find out what happened to Omegon. It was the most badass send-off in the series. He just walks away. He does what half the cast should have done and said 'you're all terrible, i don't give a damn, go to hell'. 40K as a setting is just millions of years of sunk cost fallacy stacked on top of each other. Omegon said no and cashed out. Let him go. 

 

It'll be very interesting to see how the Shattered Legions square up post-Heresy. They're so deeply entwined now, is it even possible they can be 'unwound' again? Or did Meduson's death finish it? 

[Mordred]

I have read almost everything from the HH, and I am looking forward to this. My hope is they have learnt from the HH, SoT and DoF series in regards to these larger, long run series and ensure the main story arc is adhered too, where as 'one off' or stand alone stories could be done as novellas or bespoke novels - a part of the Scouring Series, but not the apart of the numbered series or story arc.

 

I think it would help with the narrative flow and would allow those stories to be told fully, for example the Thramas Crusade, the whole Imperium Secundus, Horus march to Terra and so on as examples

[DukeLeto69]

4 hours ago, Mordred said:

I have read almost everything from the HH, and I am looking forward to this. My hope is they have learnt from the HH, SoT and DoF series in regards to these larger, long run series and ensure the main story arc is adhered too, where as 'one off' or stand alone stories could be done as novellas or bespoke novels - a part of the Scouring Series, but not the apart of the numbered series or story arc.

 

I think it would help with the narrative flow and would allow those stories to be told fully, for example the Thramas Crusade, the whole Imperium Secundus, Horus march to Terra and so on as examples

From a readers POV I agree but from a GW POV they will continue with numbered series as so many of their customer/fanbase are collectors and will buy the lot to avoid gaps in our collections. If you allow standalone novels away from numbered series, then that creates choice to not buy based on premise of the story.

[Mordred]

Yeah, that's a good point. 

 

It would be nice for them to have a more positive outlook on the stories they are producing that just 'how much money can we make' (I get that is important too), but the numbered series with additional breakouts or threads during the setting would greatly improve the delivery of this period of the lore.  

 

I want to see the aftermath of the heresy from the throne room, and how they managed this from terra and slowly outwards, but additionally I want to see scattered forces and worlds from across the imperium are brought back under control, or compliance. There are a lot of stories to tell, those which have been listed would fall within the main arc, I think that the majority of these stores will be political and world setting for what comes after, Lets be honest the Imperium will be fully in the ascendency at this point and there will be no great victories or holdouts for the traitors. 

 

Allowing stories to branch off from the 'numbered' books would allow all these stories to be told effectively.

 

But having said all that, I will undoubtedly read every scrap anyway. 

[Bobss]

Completely uninterested. People making lists of 'events this series could cover' clearly haven't learnt their lesson from the Heresy (or even Siege of Terra). I wouldn't put it past BL to invent a completely new storyline where some post-Horus/pre-Abaddon Big Bad Champion of Chaos appears, unites the Traitors once again and makes a second push towards Terra, only to be beaten, again, and then we suddenly return to pre-established events. Wraight is a great author and his post-Siege moments in The Great Wolf are really good, so I reckon this book will slap, but more generally? I'm good, bro. I_am_good

 

... and do you want to know what the worst part of this is? It's this: if you want to collect the entire BL Horus Heresy label (Heresy, Siege, Primarchs etc.) in preparation for the Scouring, physically, you will need to own a South African diamond mine. Pre-owned copies of the later books (with smaller or fewer print-runs I imagine) like Wolfsbane are easily 100-200 quid on eBay. I don't care if they are available as ebooks or audios - the experience of reading a BOOK is what people purchase, and the inability to purchase a BOOK is what I am talking about here

 

What is the point of any of this? Is Black Library a thing or isn't it? I thought we had moved past this type of giant, setting-straddling series and we're now in the era of standalone xenos/Guard books that generally correlate to model releases. Oh, wait, there's the popular Horus Heresy model system that has been redeveloped over the past 3-4 years, yet the foundational book series it quite literally owes its existence to is nowhere to be seen (physically). Right now there are 23 physical Horus Heresy/Black Library related book products available on the UK Games Workshop website. Mostly Siege of Terra and Characters titles and random Heresy offerings. What are we doing? Why are we doing this? wHO EVEN ARE WE?

[Mordred]

I can agree that BL has gone down the pan from where it was 10-20 years ago.

 

You cannot beat a good book. But these are issues for GW to sort out, which they won't as this keeps their overall costs down. Why have product sitting on the shelf costing money when they can keep a negative surplus in the system and issue releases as and when.

 

As I said in my post above, what makes money for GW is all that matters at the minute, and this is reflected in how BL has been left to shrivel.

[Roomsky]

47 minutes ago, Bobss said:

What are we doing? Why are we doing this? wHO EVEN ARE WE?

 

As if a lack of overall quality can stop me!

 

The wizard has been done in. The curtain has been pulled back. We cannot get the cat back into the bag. What reason is there not to write about The Scouring at this point? Mystique? Respect for canon? There is none left, the Heresy series killed that horse, turned it into glue, and ate it like a kindergartener. The fact is that the Siege either dropped the ball (Iron Warriors) or didn't resolve the a plotline in any capacity (Dark Angels) - I'll wade through the :cuss: if it means I get a few diamonds in the rough like in the Heresy.

 

Also, I'm tired of dancing around Caliban's destruction. Someone write the bloody thing, already.

[The Scorpion]

Unironically I trust Gav Thorpe with this after the Luther novel

 

I'm also looking forward to the new Khan. When we saw him in "Homebound" he acted like... he'd seen some deep :cuss:.

 

Bro claimed he was in the Warp, waiting for Horus to show up. It really felt like a man who had died and come back to life.

 

Khagan is the thing I'm most hyped about the new Wraight book

Edited July 28 by The Scorpion

[Mordred]

I think Luther was the first time in a long time I’ve really gotten in to a Thorpe novel. 
 

Not that I don’t like his writing, it just doesn’t usually flow for me.

edit: plus there are loads of things to finish off on, which can’t be closed out in an anthology like Era of Ruin. Print those words for me to consume please BL

Edited July 28 by Mordred

[Krelious]

I think it would be cool if there were a group of traitor marines who maybe regret the Heresy or at least are just upset that their side lost so they take captured loyalist armour  and just form their own chapter and pretend to be from the Blood Angels or whatever and no one asks questions because the Imperium needs all the Space Marines they can get. They go on from there pretending like they were always loyal even adopt a foreign primarch and just pretend like they were never traitors to the point they will kill anyone who even speaks of it.

Maybe Guilliman can be the only one who notices and makes an effort to troll them in some manner like passively aggresively notifying  them by mail he knows but is also aware of the situation and is like "You think you are the only ones?" 

[Mordred]

I could definitely see something like this with Imperial army units and navy vessels - and whole worlds and star systems, its been discussed in this thread already. 

 

There is scope for this in the form of the blackshields? I don't see these actively giving up there honour or pride, to pretend to be another legion, there's potential where these are welcomed in by those legionnaires they have served as blackshields with - but wholesale sneaky beaky I don't think would happen, unless it was carried out by the Alpha Legion? 

 

 

[Felix Antipodes]

20 hours ago, Mordred said:

I think Luther was the first time in a long time I’ve really gotten in to a Thorpe novel. 
 

Not that I don’t like his writing, it just doesn’t usually flow for me.

edit: plus there are loads of things to finish off on, which can’t be closed out in an anthology like Era of Ruin. Print those words for me to consume please BL

 

On a second read (yes, I’m that much of a tragic) I see Era of Ruin as less of a coda to the HH/SoT and more as a subtle entry to The Scouring.  Maybe that was why BL held its release for so long?

 

I’m expecting Wraight’s book to be a general scene setup picking up from Guilliman’s arrival, introducing the major players who will take the story forward (and not just the Primarchs).  Anyone have any ideas on what French’s follow-up may be about.  More scene setting on Terra or beginning the pushback of the traitors?

 

Which other authors do you want to see coming onboard?  There are several new voices I’d like to see attach themselves.  I think Jonathan Beer would do a great job on the end of the Martian civil war and liberation of the red planet.  I hope Robert Rath also gets a nod.

[darkhorse0607]

59 minutes ago, Felix Antipodes said:

 

I hope Robert Rath also gets a nod.

 

Rath is an easy one, I'd also like to see Kloster take a crack at something. I'm really coming to appreciate how he writes marines with Lazerus and Patience Kills (Crimson Fists short story)

 

I'll be interested to see what French's book is about. I'd almost like it to be a reverse Slaves to Darkness. He did the "getting the band back together" book for the traitors during the Heresy, seeing him cover what happens after the band fails would be interesting. 

[Mordred]

Put like that, about era of ruin being a precursor to the Scouring fits well, it’s a tasty little morsel to get us all excited again. 

 

I think there is an awful lot to cover just in the Sol system, in those first few months let alone years. There’s the formation of the high lords to get through, what happens with Malcadors agents and systems, do they become the fledgling inquisition? There’s Mars that needs to be retaken and Titan has to reappear at some point!? 

 

Let alone the reaction of what just happened, in regard to those who survived it and those who arrived too late. There’s Corseain and the DAs on Terra, sigismund and the ecclesiaarchy to start rolling up. The first three books could cover most of that if not four… 

 

Then you start pushing out, or do these things concurrently, it’s going to be interesting to see what they do. Obviously, books usually have a beginning, middle and an end, it’s a shame they can’t leave on cliff hangers!?

 

Author wise, I’ve been out for a while, in regard to the books. Graham McNeil, John French, I’m a fan of Haley too! Apart from ADB and Dan Abnett, so I’m walking in blind and happy on that one. 

[akex08060]

I believe the Blood Angels will play a Huge part in the The Scouring, why because their Gene Seed makes it very easy to create space marines. According to their lore before the coming of the Angel it was very easy for the 9th Legion to get very poor candidates and then make them into space marines in a short time. Those new space marines also gain experience by eating the brains of dead space marines to become them so they are going to be experience after they did that.   

 

Now fast forward after the Death of Horus, I believe there will be a huge demand for Space Marines fast and since the 9th Legion Gene seed allows for any type of candidates and it will at least take only a year for those candidates to become space marines. Many hundreds of thousands of new Blood Angles will be created for the The Scouring and with the Angel gone, many of those Blood Angles would probably join the other Legion forces with their Primarch because only a Primarch can deal with the traitor Primarch. 

 

 I believe the Primarch of devastated legions and even those whose legion strength is not too bad will attempt to control as many Blood Angels as possible saying that they respect and care for the Angel so they will take care of them now. The amount of Blood Angels will also be notice by the High Lords and they will also attempt to convince them to join in their faction which is why every year the imperium celebrates Sanguinala while there is no celebration for Ferrus. 

Edited July 30 by akex08060
Grammar

[Nagashsnee]

The only thing that will dictate who plays large parts in the scouring is what factions/characters GW/BL want to push (Ultramarines) and what the authors feel like writing.

 

The ONLY certain thing that will happen is Kyme doing 3 books on the salamanders .

[darkhorse0607]

44 minutes ago, Nagashsnee said:

GW/BL want to push (Ultramarines) 

 

Just as nature intended 

 

That being said in the preview article it mentions 

 

"We’ll meet a new cast of characters, including bitter Iron Warrior Ortag Theokon, zealous Word Bearer Adraharsis and Chief Librarian of the Ultramarines, Prayto"

 

The last name is interesting to me because A) he isn't a new character and B) that was an Abnett decision to shift and have him be more of the advisor to Guilliman as the senior librarian than someone else

 

I wonder if he's still just going to be in the advisory role to Guilliman rather than a different character (I once again ask for Gage to get more story) or if this is going to more focus on how the librarus changes post Heresy

[Mordred]

The increase in number of Blood Angels would make sense, as they are one of the legion with numerous Chapter of shoots, much like Ultras and DAs. Raldoron is going to be an interesting character to read about.

 

Ultramarines will always be pushed, they are quite literally the poster boys. I completely forgot about the formation and reintegration of the chapter librarius, so another bit of internal politicking in the legions to develop.

 

 

[The Scorpion]

4 hours ago, akex08060 said:

I believe the Blood Angels will play a Huge part in the The Scouring, why because their Gene Seed makes it very easy to create space marines. According to their lore before the coming of the Angel it was very easy for the 9th Legion to get very poor candidates and then make them into space marines in a short time. Those new space marines also gain experience by eating the brains of dead space marines to become them so they are going to be experience after they did that.   

 

Now fast forward after the Death of Horus, I believe there will be a huge demand for Space Marines fast and since the 9th Legion Gene seed allows for any type of candidates and it will at least take only a year for those candidates to become space marines. Many hundreds of thousands of new Blood Angles will be created for the The Scouring and with the Angel gone, many of those Blood Angles would probably join the other Legion forces with their Primarch because only a Primarch can deal with the traitor Primarch. 

 

 I believe the Primarch of devastated legions and even those whose legion strength is not too bad will attempt to control as many Blood Angels as possible saying that they respect and care for the Angel so they will take care of them now. The amount of Blood Angels will also be notice by the High Lords and they will also attempt to convince them to join in their faction which is why every year the imperium celebrates Sanguinala while there is no celebration for Ferrus. 

I'm not that convinced. I think the Scouring is the era that begins setting up the 2/3rd Ultramarine successor situation that we have in modern 40k

 

The Sons of Sanguinius have the Black Rage now. Echoes of Eternity mentions that Zephon becomes Chapter Master of the Charnel Guard, which according to old Bligh-era lore used gene-seed hybridization, hinting at an attempt to breed out traits from Blood Angel gene-seed.

 

An attempt will be made at Blood Angel Successors, same as with the Space Wolves, but it will prove non-viable at a large scale.

 

At least that's where I think the story is heading to.

Edited July 30 by The Scorpion