The Scouring (Series)

[DarkChaplain]

So.... is anybody here, after reading the Siege of Terra, actually still interested in the Terminus Decree / unsure what it boils down to? Because it seems like the non-BL-reading community is up in arms about a few throwaway lines from the new Grey Knights Codex about it.... and nothing seems to be new, it's all stuff we've seen during the Siege, just codex flavored.

 

I suppose we need this stuff handfed via a Scouring novel after all. Not that those parts of the fandom who get very upset right now will be reading it.

Edited 17 hours ago by DarkChaplain

[darkhorse0607]

I mean I'd assume a significant chunk of the fanbase that's really upset didn't read End and the Death anyway

 

But no, don't really care either way, although my first reaction was "that's peak Imperium" to finally have the Emperor get up (strongly opposed to that btw), and the most secretive strike force they have tries to kill him. But I havent seen a lot on that just people instantly going to the "these people would beat these people in a fight." Even though for everything we know about Malcador/Fo you'd assume they would also give the Grey Knights a way around it

[Arkhas Fell]

Re: legion numbers and what we can expect.

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I've always felt like GW/BL wrote themselves into a corner regarding the Heresy and Legion numbers. I know every old codex references the Heresy to explain why some Legions have so few successor Chapters, but in retrospect, it should have been the Great Scouring. Plus, supposedly the Scouring was just as deadly for the Astartes as the Heresy and lasted longer. 

So I'm not too sure what they'll do now, especially considering they'll want to sell books. It won’t be as long as the Horus Heresy series, that’s for sure, but I’m 100% certain it’ll be a longer series than the Siege or Dawn of Fire.
They either have to pump the Legion numbers back up and then reduce them again with existing (Iron Cage, etc.) and new events, or just go with the current flow but i'd argue it's less than ideal (for BL to make money). Let’s not forget, according to the Corax anthology by Gav, by the time of Beta Garmon, there are even fewer Space Wolves than Raven Guards left alive.
 

Some Legions still have plot points that could help them rise again. In the case of the Raven Guard, there’s still the first batch of 'proto-Primaris' Raptors, which weren’t corrupted by the AL. I assume the Iron Hands will still have the 'Keys of Hel' arc? Unless it was properly closed in the series? Honestly, I don’t remember. Sorry Iron Hands bros...
 

Unless, of course, the series will primarily focus on humans? But I highly doubt so, as the cover of Ashes of the Imperium literally overdoses with Primarchs left and right.

Edited 5 hours ago by Arkhas Fell

[Mordred]

Well I think the Selanar labs on Luna are pivotal, the traitors would have put production in overtime during the Seige when they took them, and then when the loyalists take retake them, there’s potential to put these to use again.

 

It’s an escape point for the writers to take if they explain it properly, what does everybody else think? As for legion numbers in the novels around the siege I feel they were very vague on traitor legion numbers, this could have been more accurate or specific in black books and the like. 

[Ubiquitous1984]

I wonder how the authors will make the series not depressing as heck?  I know 40k is supposed to be grimdark, but most of the established sources we have post-Horus' death about pretty much every major player in The Scouring is 'they went into a big depression, argued with a lot of people, and the eventually died a fruitless death or were lost to chaos'.

 

Again, I understand about grimdark.  But as a reader at least on paper The Scouring seems to have its hands tied.  How will the authors make this interesting as a series, rather than as a setting?  I don't really want every book simply documenting the mental decline and death of the characters were followed for 100+ HH, SoT stories.  

 

 

[Ubiquitous1984]

13 hours ago, DarkChaplain said:

So.... is anybody here, after reading the Siege of Terra, actually still interested in the Terminus Decree / unsure what it boils down to? Because it seems like the non-BL-reading community is up in arms about a few throwaway lines from the new Grey Knights Codex about it.... and nothing seems to be new, it's all stuff we've seen during the Siege, just codex flavored.

 

I suppose we need this stuff handfed via a Scouring novel after all. Not that those parts of the fandom who get very upset right now will be reading it.

I don't really follow the codexs.  What has been said about the TD?  Last I recall from SoT was the Custodes trying to squirrel it away (I've actually forgot how that plotline ended).  Was it what Fo created?

[Karhedron]

9 minutes ago, Ubiquitous1984 said:

I don't really follow the codexs.  What has been said about the TD?  Last I recall from SoT was the Custodes trying to squirrel it away (I've actually forgot how that plotline ended).  Was it what Fo created?

 

I think that is what everyone assumed but it turns out the Terminus Decree is just a sealed order for the Grey Knights.  It states that if the Emperor ever recovers, reincarnates or ascends to godhood, the Grey Knights have to put him back on the Golden Throne. It provides no guidance on how they are supposed to do this in the face of the Custodians, Silent Sisters, Imperial Fists, Minotaurs and umpteen million Mortal troops on Terra. 

Edited 3 hours ago by Karhedron

[Mordred]

53 minutes ago, Ubiquitous1984 said:

I wonder how the authors will make the series not depressing as heck?  I know 40k is supposed to be grimdark, but most of the established sources we have post-Horus' death about pretty much every major player in The Scouring is 'they went into a big depression, argued with a lot of people, and the eventually died a fruitless death or were lost to chaos'.

 

Again, I understand about grimdark.  But as a reader at least on paper The Scouring seems to have its hands tied.  How will the authors make this interesting as a series, rather than as a setting?  I don't really want every book simply documenting the mental decline and death of the characters were followed for 100+ HH, SoT stories.  

 

 

 I think yes it would have been slightly depressing and grim dark…. Especially right after the big guy landed on the throne.

 

Buuuut there would also be a lot of hope aswell coming out of this period. The imperium would return to it’s strongest state since the GC. The traitors would be fed or exiled…

[wecanhaveallthree]

Perhaps I'm just reflexively recoiling at the idea of more Fo-isms, but the TD stuff really raises my choler.

 

It just doesn't seem to make sense. I don't think the Decree could have been put into place pre-Siege: Titan's gone into the Warp, the Emperor has already given his instructions to the Grey Knights (which don't say anything about him and the Throne, and there is absolutely no reason not to mention this then, or have Malcador mention it). The Emperor has absolutely no reason to say 'hey yo if I fail on the Throne, fix it' because the Emperor's one, total, absolutely inflexible character trait is 'nah I'd win'. He is totally prepared to sit there forever and die. If the Emperor gets off the Throne/dies, then there's not going to be a Throne (much less a Terra) to put him back on since the Webway Breach is gonna eat it (and the Talisman is going to go off, don't believe Abnett's lies). Malcador doesn't get the Throne idea until post-final confrontation with Horus, and he's not in any position to make a Decree afterwards. The Emperor isn't, either. And I don't think Veritus would let anybody else do it even if they could. 

 

I dunno. I thought we had a very neat 'Terminus Decree' with the Talisman of Seven Hammers. That was simple, artful and made it impossible for the Emperor to leave the Throne anyway: because it was effectively a suicide bomb. The Emperor can't get up because if he does, Terra explodes in the world's angriest shaped charge, directly into the Warp. That was neat. It was cool. Then the Terminus Decree seemed to be Fo's bioweapon, which was also fine. The ultimate double-edged sword, the great leveller: no more Space Marines, good or bad (and god knows what else it would kill into the bargain). Unleashing a galactic phage from a totally mad scientist was a very reasonable 'last resort',.. and particularly nasty because it meant the GK had to kill themselves if they used it. So much for the 'final gift', eh?

 

This 'new' Decree doesn't gel with what people knew or decided at the only time it could have been written by who the blurb suggests it was written by. It's too late post-Siege, and the Throne!Emperor wasn't the only or forseeable conclusion before that, by the time of Buried Dagger). This then suggests the Decree is a plant from someone else to screw over the Emperor, and the person best-placed to do that - the person who's just become one of the founding members of the Inquisition and who personally hates the Emperor just that much and whose wheelhouse this dickery falls right into is Basilio Fo. Means, motive, opportunity.