The Scouring (Series)

[grailkeeper]

Really enjoying this so far. It's really excellent. The quotes at the start of chapters give it a real feel of history. Reading this gives the same feeling of potential that Horus Risong did when it came out. If every book in the series was of this quality then it will be BL's high point. Its unlikely, but if that happened I could see a scouring board game being bigger than 30k and maybe even 40k.

 

I'm a third of the way in and this could be book of the year

 

[wecanhaveallthree]

Quote

same vibe as Rising

 

Yep, that was exactly my feeling when I saw the first leaks and when I read the book, that sense of 'this is gonna be big' and the sense that there is a real intention to make it big without sacrificing any of the actual quality of the novel. It is making a very clear effort to set up various characters and plot beats to follow in the future, not just as a linear series but in the branching fashion of the early Heresy. It's not just Wraight at his personal best in what's become his 'home ground' - politicking on Terra! - but editorial doing a damn fine job of curating and nurturing opportunities for the future.

 

And really, that's what I want out of the Scouring. A return to the early Heresy style, a looser reading order, that hype and excitement of 'where are we going next'. Ashes sets the stage for everything to come. 

[grailkeeper]

One thing that adds to this is I don't have a clue what is going to happen next. That's pretty rare! Neither do the characters. It really feels like anything can happen. Normally it's pretty obvious that they'll over come the adversity they face. Not so here.

 

At the start of the heresy it felt like anything could happen. But most authors largely took the direct and most obvious paths. There were few surprises. We were told at the outset that marines from every legion turned. Outside of the scars how many did you see. 

 

Wright does a good job of making it clear that, despite it being clear to us what the end result will be, it is not clear to the characters.  I hope we'll see a lot of different things being tried and many being abandoned before we get to the familiar word of 40k.

[wecanhaveallthree]

The negative side of this 'clearing the board' is the blunt revisionism of the book, and there is a lot of it. TEATD felt like a thrilling conclusion to a very different Siege; Ashes is a return to the broad strokes of the early Heresy, as though everything that happened after the first dozen or so was actually an off-ramp and we never saw the actual Heresy Ashes is continuing on from. Motivations, objectives, ideas, philosophies are all laid out stark and cleanly in this book where previously they were, in the kindest light, jumbled. It feels like 'anything can happen' because there has been a very deliberate setting straight of paths. Ashes is a foundational text in every sense of the word. Right from the first chapters it says very clearly 'this is the way things are now'. For better or worse, what came before is being left behind.

 

Again, in many ways, I think that's what a lot of people wanted - and the only way the series could happen. The Heresy is over. The Siege is over. We are not going to try and make sense of those seventy books and their tiny details. That's not where the setting is now, it's not what the setting is now. It's as fresh a start as you can get, all considered.

 

I think that's what makes me so unhappy about it. It's a great book, tight, well-written, hits all the proper marks. But it's not the same Heresy. It's a... legacy series. Everything is different. Not wrong, not exactly, but not the same. It's 'there have always been female Custodes' writ large. There is no slump, no slide, no long fall. There's none of the history of the Imperium, none of the grit that lead to the Dark Millenium, It's just over. Everything's over. And that's just how it is now.

 

My favourite passage is the

 

Spoiler

great replacement of Terran citizens

 

Nothing could be a starker, darker fulfilment of Unity, the final culmination of what we saw in Outcast Dead.

[Alpharius902]

Finished this a couple of nights ago, really enjoyed it

 

Spoiler

My favorite part was definitely Theokon's state of being in the end. He's lost everything. He already knew the Word Bearers had drunk the Kool-Aid, but once Perturabo shows up and starts spouting off about how he can "use the Chaos to control the Chaos," he's just broken. He knows what he should do... but loyalty outweighs it, so he's stuck. He hates it, he knows it's awful, but he can't change anything, so why not go with the flow?

 

Another thing of note was Hassan's ascension to the post of Grand Master of Assassins (I like the idea of recruiting someone "outside" the organization to lead them; we know it doesn't last, but it's interesting). Guilliman being so paranoid that he doesn't tell anyone else about how messed up the Emperor is was also a terrific concept - he's such a control freak that he doesn't trust anyone else to have the reins to handle it (aside from the Sisters because he's forced to), which makes him play his cards close to his chest, which in turn keeps everyone in the dark and suspicious. Which is amazing. I love seeing this side of the loyalists at their most broken.

 

Timeline-wise, this thing takes place from directly after the Siege through a few months post-Heresy, so still in 014.M31. Next "in-universe" year should see the formal creation of the Inquisition on the anniversary of the Emperor's ascenscion if they hold to old lore (we've got Xanthus, Sindermann up so far, with Garmon/Promeus mentioned, need to figure out which of the Moriana's will be joining - my money's on the Actea-Moriana), so that'll be intriguing to cover in the next couple of books.

 

Possible stories I'd like to see going forward:

• The next novel is almost guaranteed to be Russ and the Wolves leading the Martian Reclamation effort. Really want to get his perspective on the state of everything
• Short story detailing the codification process for someone to be selected as part of the Unspoken Sanction as they start realizing this sacrifice will be permanent
• Something detailing exactly how Abaddon managed to get out of the way of Guilliman's fleet

 

[Nagashsnee]

While my general thoughts will be in the books thread one thing really stood out to me.

 

Spoiler

Thru out the book multiple characters keep referring to the leader of the Mechanicus as Fabricator Locum. Instead of Fabricator General. In the character list it's fabricator general locum.  Kane has been refered to as fabricator General since at least master of Mankind.  He was Fabricator Locum of the mechanicum which is its own position in a different and now enemy organisation under Kelbor Hall. 

 

It's such a gigantic mistake to make and I can't believe it made it to print. They made a entire audio drama (binary succession) dealing with the paradox of two fabricator generals, and it's resolution. They are two separate positions and titles.

 

President and vice president, you cant be both. And even if you could using the lesser tittle would be a insult.  I don't understand how this happened, how it wasn't picked up on, how editing don't step in. 

 

Zagreus Kane is the Fabricator General of the Adeptus Mechanicus.  I know the scouring like the HH before it will be ultra focussed on marines, but come on! Pretend to care!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tolmeus]

32 minutes ago, Nagashsnee said:

While my general thoughts will be in the books thread one thing really stood out to me.

 

I don't want to open unnecessary therads when there are already exisiting ones, but as a matter of fact, we currently don't have a specific thread for Ashes of the Imperium.
Should that be a matter, please feel free to open one. I have the feeling this thread is more of a common ground regarding the series as a whole, but that is only my opinion.

[The Scorpion]

23 hours ago, grailkeeper said:

Really enjoying this so far. It's really excellent. The quotes at the start of chapters give it a real feel of history. Reading this gives the same feeling of potential that Horus Risong did when it came out. If every book in the series was of this quality then it will be BL's high point. Its unlikely, but if that happened I could see a scouring board game being bigger than 30k and maybe even 40k.

 

I'm a third of the way in and this could be book of the year

 

A scouring boardgame might just expand from the Age of Darkness. Those battle of Luna scenes sounded like one of those campaign supplements that FW liked to drop for HH boardgame like Siege of Cthonia.

[The Scorpion]

1 hour ago, Tolmeus said:

 

I don't want to open unnecessary therads when there are already exisiting ones, but as a matter of fact, we currently don't have a specific thread for Ashes of the Imperium.
Should that be a matter, please feel free to open one. I have the feeling this thread is more of a common ground regarding the series as a whole, but that is only my opinion.

I agree, but rn the venn diagram for AotI and the Scouring is a full circle, so the patrons can be forgiven this time around

[Felix Antipodes]

Now that Ashes of the Imperium has set up the Scouring series where do we think they will go in book two - and who do we think will be writing it?

 

Personally, I think it will depend on whether they have a set number of novels in mind.  If it’s a set number series, they may pursue several storylines per book.  If they go the cash grab route because it sells very well, we may see a different book for every crumb dropped in Ashes.  I’m personally hoping for the former approach.

As for the author, I’m pretty sure the first couple of books will be from trusted veterans of the HH (whether we like it or not).  I’m hoping that some of the rising talent then get to flex their imaginations once the series gets into gear.

Spoiler

One another note:

For years I’ve had as headcanon that the Throne keeping the Emperor alive is a bad thing, keeping Him from regenerating as a Perpetual does after death.  I felt that Ashes hinted at this (sort of) in the Emperor’s reaction to being returned there by Dorn.  Thoughts?

 

[grailkeeper]

5 minutes ago, Felix Antipodes said:

Now that Ashes of the Imperium has set up the Scouring series where do we think they will go in book two - and who do we think will be writing it?

 

Personally, I think it will depend on whether they have a set number of novels in mind.  If it’s a set number series, they may pursue several storylines per book.  If they go the cash grab route because it sells very well, we may see a different book for every crumb dropped in Ashes.  I’m personally hoping for the former approach.

As for the author, I’m pretty sure the first couple of books will be from trusted veterans of the HH (whether we like it or not).  I’m hoping that some of the rising talent then get to flex their imaginations once the series gets into gear.

  Hide contents

One another note:

For years I’ve had as headcanon that the Throne keeping the Emperor alive is a bad thing, keeping Him from regenerating as a Perpetual does after death.  I felt that Ashes hinted at this (sort of) in the Emperor’s reaction to being returned there by Dorn.  Thoughts?

 

Who do you think could be the likely candidates?

 

Dan Abnett seems unlikely. If it was to be him he'd most likely have the first one. He's stronger at coming up with new original ideas than he is at continuing other stories. He's also a bigger name than Wraight.

 

ADB's work has slowed down. Personally I'd prefer more of his original works than him working in multi author series, but that doesn't make him any more or less likely.

 

Graham MacNeill would be a solid shout but doesn't do as much with BL as he used to.

 

I think Guy Hayley is on other projects but would like to see him.

 

John French, Nick Kyme, Gav Thorpe?

 

 

[wecanhaveallthree]

French. He's fresh off a smash Traitor hit, he does Perturabo/Sons of Horus/Dorn/void combat extremely well. He seems an obvious pick for the second (but probably third) book - if McNeill were active, I'd have to peg him as a no-brainer for the reclamation of Mars.

 

Regarding 'many books', some events will almost have to be their own thing e.g. Caliban. 

[1ncarnadine]

I'll speculate, and also note that these aren't necessarily my preferences, just what I expect.

 

Guy Haley on a Russ/Mars book, which almost has to be #2.

 

John French on book 3. Unsure on content, just a hunch.

 

Not sure otherwise. Nick Kyme? Maybe Mark Collins? Thorpe will likely write more Dark Angels shenanigans re: Caliban, for better or worse, but I'm not sure how soon that will be.

 

I'd love to see "new blood" in this series too, but I am worried they'll stick to the set who did the Siege and to some extent Dawn of Fire.

[Roomsky]

Not my preferences, just my predictions:

• Haley on the reconquest of Mars. Cawl will be present in some capacity. 
• Thorpe on the Destruction of Caliban.
• French on the Iron Cage.
• Wraight back for some actual legion breaking.

But, being honest, I want every participating author to follow Wraight stretch their wings a bit. No Dark Angels for Thorpe, no Sallies for Kyme. Get some new blood in, make the established writers tackle new legions and subject matter. Surprise us!

[grailkeeper]

7 minutes ago, Roomsky said:

Not my preferences, just my predictions:

• Haley on the reconquest of Mars. Cawl will be present in some capacity. 
• Thorpe on the Destruction of Caliban.
• French on the Iron Cage.
• Wraight back for some actual legion breaking.

But, being honest, I want every participating author to follow Wraight stretch their wings a bit. No Dark Angels for Thorpe, no Sallies for Kyme. Get some new blood in, make the established writers tackle new legions and subject matter. Surprise us!

 

No Sally's for Kyme? Rain will fall up and hamburgers will eat people before that happens.

[Felix Antipodes]

I don’t expect to see Abnett, ADB or McNeill on this series, but may be wrong.  As @grailkeeper said Abnett usually sets up not follows.  ADB seems content with his new role within GW (and, in a perfect world, I would prefer he was working on his own series (BL3, etc) in his spare time.  McNeill seems to have fallen off BL’s list of preferred authors for some reason.  I thought they would have snapped him up again after his last gig fell through but nothing seems to be happening.  Maybe he’s quietly beavering away on the next Ventris novel as we speak?

 

For better or worse indeed.  I suspect that we are destined to have Thorpe handling Caliban and Kyme doing whatever they have planned for the Salamanders.  Not that I have issues with this other than my desire to see someone else have a shot at them.  As @Roomsky said, surprise us!

 

As for the road forward (to answer my own question) I think the next book will be the reclamation of Mars, intermingled with Dorn breaking from his brothers to begin his personal crusade against the traitors.  They may hold that for book three though.  If McNeill isn’t available for Mars then it will probably fall to Haley.  I would like to see someone like David Guymer, Nate Crowley or Justin D Hall have a go at it instead.  French will definitely get a book or two somewhere  (maybe Dorn’s crusade?) unless he’s tapped for more HH spot filler work like The Dropsite Massacre.  I’m still hoping that Wraight provides the backbone of this series (if not all of it ) but that is a forlorn hope at best.

[Pacific81]

I think Graham McNeil has many irons in the fire these days: his own novels, graphic novels, writing for video games & even script work for TV (Dan Abnett is similar) so it doesn't surprise me you see less of him within BL these days. Although I did read he is working on a new Ultramarines book.

[DarkChaplain]

I want Thorpe to do Caliban, and it's the one thing I genuinely am excited for at this point (what with Eskrador probably being wasted and not be about how Omegon hands Guilliman/Cawl the untainted Primarch Project material to lead into the Primaris project, as we already had Sons of the Selenar foreshadowing the project and nobody seems to even remember that Alpharius/Omegon had the gene-tech anymore anyway).

 

I want Thorpe to go hard on the fall of Caliban and pay off all the buildup from Angels of Darkness up to Luther. He's obviously sketched plans and moved pieces here and there, including with the Typhus rivalry. Caliban is the event that it all revolves around and it's somewhat return via Vashtorr in M42 might have been in the talks for ages before we ever heard rumors about it. There's been so much setup and so many pieces added to the puzzle, I want Thorpe to be the one to pull them together and deliver.

 

This is basically his career's work writing for 40k/HH, and it'd be a suitably piss-poor decision for GW/BL to not have him work on it, what with their lack of respect to the authors and axing multiple series of Thorpe's due to lack of sales for anything not Space Marines in the day. But he put the legwork in, and he should be the one to make it work, not somebody else.

[Fedor]

As long as it's shockingly revealed that Guilliman was involved in goading Luther on in an attempt to off the Lion as a possible rival then it's all fine with me.

Edited December 28, 2025 by Fedor

[calgar101]

Ive always imagined that something fishy happened between 'Alpharius' and Guilliman on Eskrador. With the fleshing out of the AL and stuff, I started to think that Guilliman was let in on their secret and was told AL were still loyal to the Throne.

Having 'Alpharius' hand over the Primarch Project stuff he had could work and fuel more speculation. 

Or its a genuine battle between Avenging Guilliman and the last twin is 'Killed'.

Either way looking forward to a Scouring series and more books.

[Roomsky]

I would very much like any allusions to Primaris and Guilliman's resurrection to be kept at a bare minimum, or relegated to containment books. This isn't just because of my distaste for "modern" 40k; I don't want the next 10,000 years of grim darkness to be diluted by elements of "well, we had an out if things got really bad." Cawl and the Primaris project should be seen as just one contingency-in a contingency-in a contingency Hail Mary that the ever-careful Guilliman added to his list of 1000 back-up plans, rather than one of those moments where he and Cawl sit in private and say "the time may come when this project will be all that stands between us and annihilation, it is imperative that bla bla bla..." 

 

Also, you know, this is a story of aftermath and degeneration. Let's keep it that way.

 

I'm not stoked about the idea of Thorpe doing Caliban. I wasn't a huge fan of Luther, and out of his ~9 Dark Angels books I've enjoyed, like, 2 all the way through. I did, however, really enjoy his Rogal Dorn Primarchs book, so if he can bring that energy and write a book that's enjoyable without first reading all of Thorpe's Dark Angels homework, I'll give it a go. I also wouldn't be totally opposed to the idea of a Caliban duology, a la A Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns. A lot of fun could be had with unreliable narrators; Luthor and the Lion are both certain they're the hero of that story. Thorpe could have one and [insert your favourite here] could tackle the other.

[Karhedron]

23 hours ago, DarkChaplain said:

I want Thorpe to do Caliban, and it's the one thing I genuinely am excited for at this point (what with Eskrador probably being wasted and not be about how Omegon hands Guilliman/Cawl the untainted Primarch Project material to lead into the Primaris project, as we already had Sons of the Selenar foreshadowing the project and nobody seems to even remember that Alpharius/Omegon had the gene-tech anymore anyway).

 

Alpharius/Omegon had the Raptors genetech they stole from the Ravenguard. It is not necessarily the same as Primaris tech. They both produce slightly improved Marines in a shorter timescale but there is no clear indication they are related. And if they are related, it could just as easily be because the Emperor gave both Corax and Cawl the same information to guide their work.