White Dwarf changes/cancellation?

[Sky Potato]

40 minutes ago, Pacific81 said:

Despite the mag being pretty good over recent years I will no longer buy it as there was no mention at all of the passing of former editor Paul Sawyer.

In fairness, the copy will be written a few months ahead - WD is basically a trade magazine with no need for breaking news, so it can be sent to the publishers well in advance.

 

There could well be some tribute to him in the upcoming couple of issues. I also have no inside knowledge of the workings of WD, so there may well not be something in the pipeline.

 

It would be a shame if WD were to disappear. It’s a big enough publication that I can’t see it sticking around for too long without a dedicated editor.

[Firedrake Cordova]

Personally, I'll be sad if it goes. It's not as good as it was, but it's still quite reasonable, in terms of content.

 

17 hours ago, Urauloth said:

You won't own your magazines, and you'll have to use the WH+ software to read them

I was about to say "no, it's published via Google Books and Apple Books", but it looks like that went away. I guess I've not been paying attention.  

 

19 minutes ago, Wibbling said:

But it does. Every part of a business has to make money or else you cut it

It's customary management practice that the individual parts of a business be separately profitable and not cross-subsidised, but it's not an absolute requirement. @LameBeard was comparing WD to an independent magazine which must make money to stay in business due to not having other revenue streams, which is obviously a slightly different situation.

Edited Thursday at 10:43 AM by Firedrake Cordova

[LameBeard]

56 minutes ago, Pacific81 said:

Despite the mag being pretty good over recent years I will no longer buy it as there was no mention at all of the passing of former editor Paul Sawyer.

 

Really poor form I thought.. I know this is now a massive corp which must always aim for shareholder value, but you like to think there is still a bit of humanity in there, and those guys working there will themselves be former staff one day.

But you know how it’s now written months in advance - difficult to use the magazine to respond to events like that any more.  I agree it could be more human though, on many levels. The best bits are the human bits. I stopped getting White Dwarf when it was nothing but sales-speak and a though I rarely get it these days, it does seem to have recovered a bit.

[LameBeard]

25 minutes ago, Wibbling said:

 

But it does. Every part of a business has to make money or else you cut it. Marketing have to prove their value same as every other group. 

 Perhaps you took my post a little too literally.

 
I’m sure we’d agree that in evaluating the profitability of White Dwarf, GW need to consider not just the production costs and revenue, but also the marketing benefits of the having the physical magazine available in other distribution channels like newsagents. Those benefits are difficult to quantify, but it’s White Dwarf that got me into the hobby. For a firm selling physical models it would seem rash to rely on digital channels like influencers. Especially when those digital channels sometime go a little “off message”.

 

 

[Felix Antipodes]

WD didn’t get me into the hobby (that was Space Crusade) but it kept me in it when there were no GW shops, and few FLGS stocking their products in my area.  Probably why I have a soft spot for it.

 

Most print media is suffering nowadays, with quite a few attempting a switch to digital.  Of the rest, they rely on high subscription numbers to keep themselves afloat.  I don’t like digital mags for the most part for the same reasons I don’t like ebooks.  You are paying money for something you don’t actually own and can’t access without a reading device.  It would be a shame if WD went that route, but it would be better than it disappearing altogether.

[Evil Eye]

I'd be very, very sad if WD went kaput; even if it is a shell of its former self, it's been running for close to 50 years and were it not for the 300th issue I remember reading with a friend I would never have found this hobby.

[Pacific81]

1 hour ago, Sky Potato said:

In fairness, the copy will be written a few months ahead - WD is basically a trade magazine with no need for breaking news, so it can be sent to the publishers well in advance.

 

There could well be some tribute to him in the upcoming couple of issues. I also have no inside knowledge of the workings of WD, so there may well not be something in the pipeline.

 

It would be a shame if WD were to disappear. It’s a big enough publication that I can’t see it sticking around for too long without a dedicated editor.

 

This is not correct. Even though most of the mag will have been produced well in advance they have the capacity to insert elements right up to the moment it goes to press, and this is common due to the nature of printed press. 

 

A small 6" insert with a few words and a picture of Paul, the editor who helmed the mag for so many years, would not have been too much to ask I don't think?

[LameBeard]

I’d like to see a picture of his White Scars army - often mentioned but I think I missed the issue it was actually shown in?

[skylerboodie]

3 hours ago, Pacific81 said:

Despite the mag being pretty good over recent years I will no longer buy it as there was no mention at all of the passing of former editor Paul Sawyer.

 

 

Games Workshop didn't / barely (?) acknowledged the passing of Bryan Ansell - the single most important figure in our hobby's history, IMHO - so I wouldn't be surprised that they didn't mention Sawyer, who set up a leading competitor of course, that they are hardly likely to want to mention in any obit.

Edited Thursday at 01:35 PM by skylerboodie
typo

[N1SB]

I'm really sad about this!   I agree with everything said, so I'll limit myself to 3 points:

 

1. White Dwarf is the best it's been in years.  I picked up an issue, it had all this stuff on Krieg, free rules for a drag race game, it was awesome!  It's like the best gift to give to another Warhammer friend because...no one buys it, they just watch YouTube now, that's probably part of the problem, but when they actually read it because I gave it to them, they love it.
    
2. I used to describe GW as very silo'd, like too compartmentalised, but I really love Brother Black Cohort's word, "feudal".  SO true!  But whichever manager inherits White Dwarf as part of their roles & responsibilities probably don't want it.  You know how at work, the reward for success is just MOAR WORK (not even with moar pay...and apparently this was a cost-cutting measure)?  It's some person who's been already going full-tilt making their own department successful.  The best they can do is maintain its current quality, and that's NOT a Win, that's an as-expected business-as-usual.  More likely, quality will likely deteriorate, just because he already has a full-time doing their original job, now they got this tacked on, and that'll be a Fail on their stellar record.  Office politics IS real, but I'll tell you what: if ppl were going to jockey for a position, it'd almost certainly be something with the Amazon streaming series (in fact, there was a leak about this) OR Licensing video games.  White Dwarf is old media, you want to hitch your wagon to what's growing into the future, ya?  So I absolutely agree there may be Machiavellian dastards in GW, but if they were, this is not the fiefdom that type of personality will go for, but I might be wrong.
    
3. Lyle Lowry is such a nice guy, such a smart guy, and he was talking about White Dwarf and I think print media as a whole as "curation", great answer!  Then I realised the competition White Dwarf faces isn't just waning print media, nor YouTube, nor WarhammerTV nor Warhammer+, nor video games...it's us.  It's Bolter & Chainsword, it's ANY forum, now perhaps Discord.  We don't provide curation, we provide something better: consultation.  You got a question about a paint scheme, not only will we answer it, we will further answer 10 potential follow-up question you didn't even know you had, then we'll tell you how it relates to the Horus Heresy.  We're like many minds in a contraption, like the Cawl Inferior but Superior.  Brother Tyler's been even promoting the Articles feature.  Hey, not at all saying we're the Bad Guys, but we go so much further than any print media, we go so much further than just curation, and we don't just do it for free, we do it for fun.  We're crazy, very hard to compete against.

 

But so sad am this monkeigh!  White Dwarf's been at a peak it hasn't seen since like, the '90s.

[firestorm40k]

As others have pointed out, print media is really in decline. And as has been pointed out - people can get their hobby info and inspiration immediately now; social media, forums like B&C, discord groups... 

 

I think if GW wants to keep White Dwarf going, it really needs to offer more of what you can't get anywhere else. 

 

More exclusive rules - Crusade rules, missions, scenarios, campaigns. Even radical/wacky (delete according to preference) stuff like Vehicle Design rules - remember those, back in the day?! How many hours were spent going through those in White Dwarf, imagining crazy vehicles that you might someday kit-bash 

 

Shine a light on corners of the Community that aren't highlighted by social media. It feels like - and no disrespect to any content creator - Warhammer/miniature hobby related content on YouTube, Instagram etc. is dominated by specific individuals or groups. Good for them, they got in and claimed the niche when they could. But what else is happening that doesn't get the attention these creators do? There'll be talented painters, passionate groups, doing really cool stuff that would inspire every Warhammer hobbyist if they were made aware - but as they're not mates with MiniWargamer Dave or whoever, the Internet would have zero awareness of them. There's an opportunity for White Dwarf to step in and highlight those outside the sphere of 'influencers'.

 

Build a sense of community - they tried to do this with 'The Bunker', which was a neat idea, but at the same time struck me as a little restrictive at the same time - "this month you've got to be all about x & y that we're pushing!" Use White Dwarf as the hub for another global campaign, do regional events that are exclusive for WD subscribers; those are just a couple of ideas. I think the days of WD being a single point of reference for all Warhammer hobbyist are long gone (due to social media etc), but there's no reason that it couldn't be used to foster a sense of community for those who still read it. 

 

I guess this all comes down to resource - to make this happen, GW would have to invest in more writers and staff, which likely doesn't fit their business plans. 

 

White Dwarf always used to be a talismanic focus for our hobby - it may never reach that peak again, but there's no reason it can't still be important for many hobbyists.

[siegfriedfr]

Honestly WD is not very fun to read, and in the digital age very easily pirated.

 

It doesn't even hold the same historical value since it doesn't properly reference products release.

 

Not sure what's gonna happen to it but it would benefit cutting down on the long-winded paragraphs style, and  focus more on delivering exclusive rules and content, a history section (ie real- world history of the company and its product), and referencing new releases. 

[Pacific81]

1 hour ago, skylerboodie said:

 

Games Workshop didn't / barely (?) acknowledged the passing of Bryan Ansell - the single most important figure in our hobby's history, IMHO - so I wouldn't be surprised that they didn't mention Sawyer, who set up a leading competitor of course, that they are hardly likely to want to mention in any obit.

 

I don't want to imagine that they didn't mention it because Paul went on to work for Warlord, as it would indicate they are a bunch of horrible sociopaths.

I think its more likely they perhaps just didnt have time or capacity; I wrote to them a couple of times about a Charity event some colleagues and I were running in Paul's honour, even sent some photos, and got no reply.

 

Agreed on Bryan Ansell, and makes me wonder how many gamers even know now of Rick Priestley, Andy Chambers etc. You get an almost worshipful reverence of a corporate identity and logo, without any thought to the human beings that actually created it, which seems to be a sign of our times.

[Grand Master Laertes]

Oh god, I hope they don't end up in thr marketing departments under Andy Smillie's management. I've only heard horror stories about it.

 

 

[Antarius]

It's probably time for it to go, to be honest.

I mean, WD used to be great, then it became quite good, then quite bad, then (after a decade or so of being basically trash) it became quite good again. Eventually I stopped reading it, but the last copy I picked up (maybe two or three years ago) was ok. However, I think it has a very real problem that is basically a product of GWs succes and expanded scale of operations - it's not really a hobby magazine anymore. I mean, it has obviously always been an advertisement for GW products as much as a hobby magazine, but apart from extra rules, free cardboard etc. the thing about it was that it was inspiring and gave you ideas for how to be creative with your hobby, scratch build stuff etc. and it just doesn't anymore - at most, it might give you interesting tips on how to assemble official GW kits and list paint recipes, but it's all extremely self-contained. Not that I expect them to advertise for other companies, but I miss seeing scratch built terrain and deodorant tanks (this is a bit of an exaggeration, as I am not quite that ancient, but I hope the point still comes through).

I realise that this might sound a bit old-timey and whiney, but it's not that there's anything wrong with any of what they're doing, exactly - it just makes WD somewhat redundant to many people, because you can easily find all that stuff for free elsewhere. At least that's my impression of the situation.

[Craig]

If I were in a decision making position at GW I think I would look at scrapping White Dwarf as a physical publication and rebranding WH+ as White Dwarf TV. You have the battle reports, kitbashing, painting tutorials, fiction etc there already. Just fold the WD team in to helping create more content for the service. It's the same price (or cheaper?) than a current WD subscription and you get the yearly mini included. From a business perspective you cut the cost of printing and distribution which can be funneled in to creating content for the subscription service they are pushing. I honestly don't think having WD on the newsagent shelf is bringing a huge number of new customers in for GW like it did when we were kids, especially when it is sitting next to issues of combat patrol magazine which are far more likely to interest curious people.

Sadly I agree with a lot of people that have already said it's time for WD to end or transition to something else.

[INKS]

personally for me it's nice to have a physical mag I can hold in my hands and flip through but those days are numbered it seems.

[Domhnall]

Having had a think about this again and having flipped through the latest issue, if you're not into all aspects of the GW-sphere hobby (40k and AoS/Old World and their skirmish equivalents), then you are paying full magazine price for effectively half a magazine. It can be less if the focused fluff piece is based on the other game, your reading can be limited and possibly not worth buying that month. 

It's not a criticism of the magazine, because it's always sort of been half and half, but when it's £7.99 that's a big ask for only half a magazine.

 

[Craig]

2 minutes ago, Domhnall said:

Having had a think about this again and having flipped through the latest issue, if you're not into all aspects of the GW-sphere hobby (40k and AoS/Old World and their skirmish equivalents), then you are paying full magazine price for effectively half a magazine. It can be less if the focused fluff piece is based on the other game, your reading can be limited and possibly not worth buying that month. 

It's not a criticism of the magazine, because it's always sort of been half and half, but when it's £7.99 that's a big ask for only half a magazine.

 

That's why I cancelled my subscription. When they split each issue in to segments a few years ago it highlighted how little content I actually read.

[Felix Antipodes]

2 hours ago, Domhnall said:

Having had a think about this again and having flipped through the latest issue, if you're not into all aspects of the GW-sphere hobby (40k and AoS/Old World and their skirmish equivalents), then you are paying full magazine price for effectively half a magazine. It can be less if the focused fluff piece is based on the other game, your reading can be limited and possibly not worth buying that month. 

It's not a criticism of the magazine, because it's always sort of been half and half, but when it's £7.99 that's a big ask for only half a magazine.

 

 

This was never an issue for me in times past as I liked and understood Warhammer (TOW as it is now) and would read the entire issue.  I’m not big on AoS so the percentage of pages read is affected by which game they lead with, so I understand where you are coming from.

I still feel WD is worth the cost though as it provides stuff I find interesting and unique in a format I prefer in way a revamped WH+ would not.

[Mogger351]

3 hours ago, INKS said:

personally for me it's nice to have a physical mag I can hold in my hands and flip through but those days are numbered it seems.

I grab a copy when travelling or going on holiday in an attempt to disconnect from tech etc and have a hit of nostalgia.

[TheWarmaster]

I miss the golden era of White Dwarf with Paul ‘Fat Bloke’ Sawyer at the helm. May he rest in peace. 

[darkhorse0607]

7 hours ago, Antarius said:

I realise that this might sound a bit old-timey and whiney, but it's not that there's anything wrong with any of what they're doing, exactly - it just makes WD somewhat redundant to many people, because you can easily find all that stuff for free elsewhere. At least that's my impression of the situation.

 

Especially when that other stuff is easier to get. I'm only speaking for what it's like in the States, but when I used to buy WD fairly consistently it was never through GW. I would grab a copy when going to somewhere like Barnes and Nobles that used to stock it, or other magazine heavy shops. 

 

Now that they only stock it at official GW stores (at least from what I can tell), I would either have to go online and order it when, as mentioned above, a lot of the information is immediately available for free (even through places like Warhammer community putting out similar articles) or go to an official GW and hope they have it in stock

 

I'm not saying the magazine is bad or doesn't have a place or anything, but I'd imagine it's hard to stay profitable when you're largely just advertising to the people already in your ecosystem for stuff you're giving them already for free/faster

[Flaherty]

I canceled my subscription a couple of years ago. I bought the occasional issue, but as someone said, it's become a casualty of GW's success. In any given issue there may only be a few pages that are pertinent to my interests. As much as I'm interested in many of the specialist games, I'm unlikely to read an in-depth battle report about any of them. Likewise, when it comes to painting showcases, I can find so many better options on Pinterest and Instagram. By having to serve so many masters it served none. I hope it sticks around out of pure sentimentality, but I find it hard to imagine a format that would work. I would be keen to buy it if it focused almost entirely on 40K. Good lore. Interesting rules. Mini games. Reserve 10% to cover the other systems. 

 

I think GW's big challenge is that it's straddling an uncomfortable line. It's too big to be a small company, but sub-scale to fully reward the small cadre of creators that provide its magic. Disney makes documentaries for every feature film, highlighting the work of the behind-the-scenes creators. Car companies laud their designers. But they do so knowing they can offer the best pay and exclusive access to remunerative careers. GW saw that by letting its creatives have personalities and surnames, these people could strike out on their own and earn multiples of their salary while pursuing similar work.

 

[phandaal]

Something fishy is definitely going on in the GW marketing department right now. Anybody else see that new GW logo they came up with?